Why don’t more parents understand that adult kids have leverage nowadays to cut off contact, and

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't like thinking about it this transactionally, but it is weird how many parents do not seem to understand the consequences of abusive, controlling, disrespectful treatment of their kids, especially teens and college students who are close to being financially independent.

A lot of parents really fight the idea that their kids are their equals as people -- they are attached to being in control and and the top of a hierarchy and believe this dynamic will last forever. But unless you can successfully keep your children dependent on you into adulthood (which these same people will complain bitterly about, as well), your adult child can just stop visiting and returning your calls if they decide they don't like that dynamic.

So, yeah, why not just develop a mutually respectful relationship that affords both parties independence and autonomy? Seems like a no-brainer if you'd like to keep your kids in your life, have access to your grandkids, and maybe get some love and care at the end of your life.

Many people here don't understand this, because they have normal relationships with parents who saw them as people. However, for those of us who grew up in abusive and narcissistic households, where parents saw kids as extensions of themselves, who reflected glory or shame on the parents through their achievements (beauty, college admissions, grades, etc), we understand it all too well. The whole point of getting to college for me, going into debt and getting a job was to be financially independent, to get money to be able to walk away. My parents called me fat and ugly, refused to feed me dinner if I got bad grades, and gave me the silent treatment if I did badly in school or even brought home a guy they did not like - literally pretended we did not exist. There was no physical abuse, but It took me until the end of college to realize this was not how normal families behaved. This is how controlling parents behaved. It took a lot of therapy to get over this, and become a person who could move past it. But my mother remains incredibly manipulative; she hides the nasty words from outsiders, but will tell me I look like I gained weight, or question the choice of colleges for my children. She actually told me she thought they could do better and talked about her friends kids and where they were going to school. Ladle on the pressure and try to shame - yep, it never changes.

As a result, I need to limit the time I spend with my parents. They still have boundary issues -and when they started commenting on my daughter's looks and inquiring about her grades, I realized I needed to protect her. The one great thing I did in my life is I know my kids know they are loved and that I view them as their own people, not view them as extensions of myself.

Sorry for making this such a heavy post, but controlling parental behavior is very real. And sometimes mental health requires forcing a new dynamic, or else, if that doesn't work, cutting off contact.

+1. You cannot win with narcissistic and abusive parents. I've been there. It's about them and if it's about you then it's about how you or your spouse or your kids need to improve. If my mom will literally tell anyone who she meets that my sister is married to an accountant but that he doesn't have a CPA or MBA. Why? Because somehow to my narcissistic mother who is not an accountant, CPA, or MBA it's a moral failing. She comments on my 18 month old and 4 year olds weights all the time. Things like: "She's lost a lot of weight! That was fast! or "I don't think you'll be happy with her body type" It's like, 'no mom, you have a problem where you need to comment on preschoolers and toddlers bodies.' But that's what these types of parents do. They make everything about them and their preferences and their beliefs. And if you are the child of a narcissist you really grow up believing your parent has sacrificed everything for you and you should do whatever you need to do to make them happy. Stepping out of that is like leaving a cult and it's hard because these are the people who raised you. I understand why someone from a normal family wouldn't want to cut off their parents. But if you're from a normal family you really can't compare and you really shouldn't be telling people that they should or shouldn't cut off their family members. There are difficult relationships and there are abusive relationships and they are different.

[Anonymous]

Growing up, my mom was emotionally abusive to me. I learned to look elsewhere (and primarily within) to fulfill my emotional needs.

I started working at 16 and haven’t stopped. My mom never gave me a penny as an adult, which was fine - I love that I support myself.

When I had kids, my mom never babysat or offered any assistance. No problem - I created a village with DH, friends and paid caregivers.

As a result of my mom’s emotional, financial and physica unavailability, I have become self sufficient and independent. I don’t need anything from her. However, it also means there’s nothing tying me to my mom. About two years ago, my mom said something particularly cruel to me over the phone. I hung up on her. She has never reached out since, nor have I. It has made absolutely no difference in my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Growing up, my mom was emotionally abusive to me. I learned to look elsewhere (and primarily within) to fulfill my emotional needs.

I started working at 16 and haven’t stopped. My mom never gave me a penny as an adult, which was fine - I love that I support myself.

When I had kids, my mom never babysat or offered any assistance. No problem - I created a village with DH, friends and paid caregivers.

As a result of my mom’s emotional, financial and physica unavailability, I have become self sufficient and independent. I don’t need anything from her. However, it also means there’s nothing tying me to my mom. About two years ago, my mom said something particularly cruel to me over the phone. I hung up on her. She has never reached out since, nor have I. It has made absolutely no difference in my life.

Phew!! Glad for you that you created a good family for yourself. I feel similarly, I became very self sufficient and very independent, and now I understand I have to back off of that stance, not in regard to my family of origin, but in regard to my present relationships. I am unable to ask for help. Unable to understand that someone might help me. Unable to accept I won't be slandered by asking for help. It's OK, I get therapy and these realizations come along. Thanks for your post, it helped me realize the above. Also, I am cut off from my mom for 6 years now. Good decision for me but heartbreaking,. I did it many years after she showed me she did not care about me, my survival, my interests, my life.

[Anonymous]

You also can't win with narcisstic adult children. And those narc think they are the victims, just as any narc does. We have no idea is OP is one of the narcs, all we know is that her examples are nuts and immature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really? You realize those "kids" are often being supported by their parents. I'd be fine if mine cut me off, but they will need to 100% support themselves - move out, pay for own college, health insurance, food, etc.

[Anonymous]

Ugh

Why is everyone on this board so quick to want to cut everyone off?

Take a break, get some therapy to help you cope, but only cut someone off as a last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Growing up, my mom was emotionally abusive to me. I learned to look elsewhere (and primarily within) to fulfill my emotional needs.

I started working at 16 and haven’t stopped. My mom never gave me a penny as an adult, which was fine - I love that I support myself.

When I had kids, my mom never babysat or offered any assistance. No problem - I created a village with DH, friends and paid caregivers.

As a result of my mom’s emotional, financial and physica unavailability, I have become self sufficient and independent. I don’t need anything from her. However, it also means there’s nothing tying me to my mom. About two years ago, my mom said something particularly cruel to me over the phone. I hung up on her. She has never reached out since, nor have I. It has made absolutely no difference in my life.

Phew!! Glad for you that you created a good family for yourself. I feel similarly, I became very self sufficient and very independent, and now I understand I have to back off of that stance, not in regard to my family of origin, but in regard to my present relationships. I am unable to ask for help. Unable to understand that someone might help me. Unable to accept I won't be slandered by asking for help. It's OK, I get therapy and these realizations come along. Thanks for your post, it helped me realize the above. Also, I am cut off from my mom for 6 years now. Good decision for me but heartbreaking,. I did it many years after she showed me she did not care about me, my survival, my interests, my life.

Yes! By high school I had learned that I needed to figure everything out by myself. Not because she was physically or financially unable to help, but because she would make it so unnecessarily difficult, deride me, hold it against me, etc. I remember in my twenties resenting friends who did rely on others to solve their problems. And then in my thirties, I began to realize that my friends were actually displaying normal, healthy behavior… I share your heartbreak PP but cheers to us for making a better life for ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You also can't win with narcisstic adult children. And those narc think they are the victims, just as any narc does. We have no idea is OP is one of the narcs, all we know is that her examples are nuts and immature.

My thoughts exactly. Not wanting to pay for oos college, living in the countryside, and waiting until senior year of high school to buy op a car do not make for abusive parents. Notwithstanding the adult children who show up on every thread to curry sympathy for themselves by agreeing with every op, these nuts facts and some really immature posts are all we know about op.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:that they need to be REALLY careful in their interactions with their late teens & early 20s kids? Seriously.

And don't forget older ACs. Do you mean as soon as there is something that the AC perceives is wrong, or takes the wrong way while not intended that way, or hears a comment/opinion they don't like, (such as: "Apparently RSV seems pretty virulent now, we weren't able to see Larla's baby last week and won't see her till March maybe" and AC perceives that as criticizing their own parenting socializing pattern) or their spouse does the same ("I don't like the way your Mom ate everything at the buffet except MY goat cheese dates. I got her message loud and clear."), while their friends are not up for review for anything it apoears- so you mean that parents should WATCH THEIR STEP? That? Yeah. For those in their younger 20s, it's probably about expectations of financial help they expected and didn't get.
Well, probably they've learned the hard way this is a landmine game of surreal proportions with rules that keep changing without notice. Losing this game means losing one's whole family, access to grandkids, issues with sinlings in the family, love, everything. But some have also decided to set boundaries in reverse because their own mental health might be worth it. Speaking for several friends, it is devastating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:that they need to be REALLY careful in their interactions with their late teens & early 20s kids? Seriously.

And don't forget older ACs. Do you mean as soon as there is something that the AC perceives is wrong, or takes the wrong way while not intended that way, or hears a comment/opinion they don't like, (such as: "Apparently RSV seems pretty virulent now, we weren't able to see Larla's baby last week and won't see her till March maybe" and AC perceives that as criticizing their own parenting socializing pattern) or their spouse does the same ("I don't like the way your Mom ate everything at the buffet except MY goat cheese dates. I got her message loud and clear."), while their friends are not up for review for anything it apoears- so you mean that parents should WATCH THEIR STEP? That? Yeah. For those in their younger 20s, it's probably about expectations of financial help they expected and didn't get.
Well, probably they've learned the hard way this is a landmine game of surreal proportions with rules that keep changing without notice. Losing this game means losing one's whole family, access to grandkids, issues with sinlings in the family, love, everything. But some have also decided to set boundaries in reverse because their own mental health might be worth it. Speaking for several friends, it is devastating.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm on good terms with my adult (mid-20s) kids.

But I'm not really surprised by this. There's been a cultural wave of blaming less-than-perfect parents for unsatisfactory outcomes. Of course, let's face it, we're all less-than-perfect human beings--humans just aren't perfect--and I'm sure many of us have made mistakes. But few parents are as awful as this forum suggests, and just how far this wave has gone is underscored by OP's "problems" (parents won't pay for oos, won't buy her a Manhattan condo).

I wonder about the causes. Is this generation unused to failure and looking for people to blame besides themselves? Is it entitlement, pure and simple, that causes ACs to demand perfection in their parents? Is there some other cultural shift I'm missing? I'm truly curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:that they need to be REALLY careful in their interactions with their late teens & early 20s kids? Seriously.

And don't forget older ACs. Do you mean as soon as there is something that the AC perceives is wrong, or takes the wrong way while not intended that way, or hears a comment/opinion they don't like, (such as: "Apparently RSV seems pretty virulent now, we weren't able to see Larla's baby last week and won't see her till March maybe" and AC perceives that as criticizing their own parenting socializing pattern) or their spouse does the same ("I don't like the way your Mom ate everything at the buffet except MY goat cheese dates. I got her message loud and clear."), while their friends are not up for review for anything it apoears- so you mean that parents should WATCH THEIR STEP? That? Yeah. For those in their younger 20s, it's probably about expectations of financial help they expected and didn't get.
Well, probably they've learned the hard way this is a landmine game of surreal proportions with rules that keep changing without notice. Losing this game means losing one's whole family, access to grandkids, issues with sinlings in the family, love, everything. But some have also decided to set boundaries in reverse because their own mental health might be worth it. Speaking for several friends, it is devastating.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm on good terms with my adult (mid-20s) kids.

But I'm not really surprised by this. There's been a cultural wave of blaming less-than-perfect parents for unsatisfactory outcomes. Of course, let's face it, we're all less-than-perfect human beings--humans just aren't perfect--and I'm sure many of us have made mistakes. But few parents are as awful as this forum suggests, and just how far this wave has gone is underscored by OP's "problems" (parents won't pay for oos, won't buy her a Manhattan condo).

I wonder about the causes. Is this generation unused to failure and looking for people to blame besides themselves? Is it entitlement, pure and simple, that causes ACs to demand perfection in their parents? Is there some other cultural shift I'm missing? I'm truly curious.

I think there absolutely is a cultural wave of blaming less-than-perfect parents. Everyone today is going to therapy, focusing on how their parents screwed them up. And, young adults today can be pretty entitled. I see threads about how they think of their parents' money as their own, they throw tantrums when the grandparents won't watch the grandchildren, etc. I think us older folks were raised that your parents don't owe you anything past 18. So this applies to some of the situations presented here.

But, there's other stuff going on too. This generation is recognizing that they don't need to put up with abusive, harmful, hurtful behavior just because the person is their mom or dad. There are nasty parents out there who only bring their adult children sadness, stress, and hurt. Like, these parents have NO redeeming qualities. If it were anyone else, people would say "dump them and don't look back." The whole "Because she's your mom / dad, you have honor them and put up with it" rationale isn't enough. If you are a bad person, your kids very well disengage and live their own lives without you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh

Why is everyone on this board so quick to want to cut everyone off?

Take a break, get some therapy to help you cope, but only cut someone off as a last resort.

We have 2 relatives on different sides that can be really toxic so that's a lot of people to be in therapy rather than the 2 that could use it. One was in therapy and got dumped by a psychologist. Whats everyone supposed to do? Book a big group session for the abused? Feel like Jedi Knights sensing the presence of the Dark Side. Both are overweight food nag hags that can reduce young grandchildren to tears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:that they need to be REALLY careful in their interactions with their late teens & early 20s kids? Seriously.

And don't forget older ACs. Do you mean as soon as there is something that the AC perceives is wrong, or takes the wrong way while not intended that way, or hears a comment/opinion they don't like, (such as: "Apparently RSV seems pretty virulent now, we weren't able to see Larla's baby last week and won't see her till March maybe" and AC perceives that as criticizing their own parenting socializing pattern) or their spouse does the same ("I don't like the way your Mom ate everything at the buffet except MY goat cheese dates. I got her message loud and clear."), while their friends are not up for review for anything it apoears- so you mean that parents should WATCH THEIR STEP? That? Yeah. For those in their younger 20s, it's probably about expectations of financial help they expected and didn't get.
Well, probably they've learned the hard way this is a landmine game of surreal proportions with rules that keep changing without notice. Losing this game means losing one's whole family, access to grandkids, issues with sinlings in the family, love, everything. But some have also decided to set boundaries in reverse because their own mental health might be worth it. Speaking for several friends, it is devastating.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm on good terms with my adult (mid-20s) kids.

But I'm not really surprised by this. There's been a cultural wave of blaming less-than-perfect parents for unsatisfactory outcomes. Of course, let's face it, we're all less-than-perfect human beings--humans just aren't perfect--and I'm sure many of us have made mistakes. But few parents are as awful as this forum suggests, and just how far this wave has gone is underscored by OP's "problems" (parents won't pay for oos, won't buy her a Manhattan condo).

I wonder about the causes. Is this generation unused to failure and looking for people to blame besides themselves? Is it entitlement, pure and simple, that causes ACs to demand perfection in their parents? Is there some other cultural shift I'm missing? I'm truly curious.

I think there absolutely is a cultural wave of blaming less-than-perfect parents. Everyone today is going to therapy, focusing on how their parents screwed them up. And, young adults today can be pretty entitled. I see threads about how they think of their parents' money as their own, they throw tantrums when the grandparents won't watch the grandchildren, etc. I think us older folks were raised that your parents don't owe you anything past 18. So this applies to some of the situations presented here.

But, there's other stuff going on too. This generation is recognizing that they don't need to put up with abusive, harmful, hurtful behavior just because the person is their mom or dad. There are nasty parents out there who only bring their adult children sadness, stress, and hurt. Like, these parents have NO redeeming qualities. If it were anyone else, people would say "dump them and don't look back." The whole "Because she's your mom / dad, you have honor them and put up with it" rationale isn't enough. If you are a bad person, your kids very well disengage and live their own lives without you.

Except every Boomer I know (my parents included) were gifted money, bought things for their grandchildren (mine bought me my canopy bedroom set, for example), and babysat/picked up from school/took us for weeks at a time so my parents could go on vacation or work during the summer. . . . . our parents paid none of that good fortune that they received forward. They don't -HAVE- to, sure. But it leaves a bad taste. We don't cut people off for such things but we also don't bend over backwards for them, either. And they are basically irrelevant to our kids/cousins now too as they have not taken the time with them that our grandparents did with us. So . . . no . . . a lot of older generations did not have the bolded mentality. At least not when they were the beneficiaries.

[Anonymous]

My boomer parents are nothing like my grandparents. They are straight up jerks and make zero effort with my kid. My mother can’t be bothered to take time off of her busy vacation schedule to stop by for a birthday. Not one in 12 years. They don’t even call. They have nothing to do, are well into retirement and it’s like they think they’re holding court and the peasants need to prostrate themselves before them to even be acknowledged. I think they babysat for us once?

And don’t give me any crap about being a better daughter to them. My entire life has been set on a path dictated by them and I have had to work extremely hard to accept where it put me and move on, independently. They don’t see me as a person with her own needs and never did. Always always about them. And now it’s about me. Funny how that works out.

At least I have the awareness and empathy for my own child that they lacked. It hurts me to see my son hurt, I want him to be happy in life and if that means he makes choices I wouldn’t, that is 100% fine with me as long as he’s not hurting anyone. They never have a crap about my feelings. If I was upset about anything it was always my fault. If I didn’t meet their expectations, there was always a threat. And it wasn’t bluffing. They’ve proven to be extremely mean and vindictive in old age, just like they were when I was living with them.

So I dont know why they don’t get that their adult children have more leverage over them than they do over us now. Maybe they need therapy to figure it out. Meanwhile I’ll be living my life without them interfering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's interesting that some people seem to think this is the norm, parents who are difficult and annoying who they would like to cut off and never see again.

I'm sure it happens but it's not typical in my experience, for me or the people I know. I get along fine with my adult kids, we treat each other with respect, always have.

Tell me, those of you who are suffering through this painful relationship with your parents, what are you doing now that you think will prevent this from happening with your own kids?

I am giving my child the space to become his own person—with his own opinions and desires, even if they differ from mine. I look at him and my number one priority is that he feel at peace with himself, and if that means I keep my trap shut, I do.