I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

This this this.

Not just income level - but "status level" (educational background, job titles etc.). And then keep your status/income level to yourself.

And then just don't engage. Someone wants to take over the PTA or the pool board with some sort of Game of Thrones style machinations? Who cares.

It's not that those types of women aren't out there - there are plenty of women who aren't mutual frenemies or minions.

What if you are just middle class, so the only people below your income/status level are working or lower class?

Alternatively, what if your social class and economic class don't match? My spouse and I are highly educated from "good" schools that have a lot of status, but we have middle class status jobs and a middle class income.

I'm genuinely asking. We wind up living among UMC people but being the lowest status people in that community, which is an uncomfortable situation and I think makes me a target for these sorts of women who initially wish to turn me into an acolyte and then, when they realize I don't like that, they use my low status as a punching bag to elevate themselves.

I don't want to live in a poorer community because I value education and schools in poor and working class areas tend to either be not great, or they are great but are focused mostly on helping a poor kids (which makes sense) and might not be a great place for my MC kids.

So where do a I go to get away from this dynamic, or, if there's nowhere for me to go, how do I protect myself from these women using me as a weird foil for their status games? What I want is to just float in the middle somewhere without attracting attention.

Are you the OP?

I posted before that I used to be a tomboy and never hung out with these types. I guess we are the opposite because we have the highest income. Many of those queen bee types in our area are UMC but not super rich.

I have three very social children who I guess are popular so those moms are nice to me. DH is also well regarded so those wives play nice to me. I don’t want to hang out with any of those women personally if I don’t have to.

I don't understand the point of this comment. You seem like a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Once you figure this out, you will stop attracting these people into your life and you'll also not pay that much attention to them.

One of the keys is that you can't be sarcastic or rude. You need to figure out how to just be completely unfazed by their requests and simply say no, while being polite. (being rude will trigger something bad in them.) No, smile, move on with your life. Don't really engage with their schemes, but don't be hostile about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Once you figure this out, you will stop attracting these people into your life and you'll also not pay that much attention to them.

One of the keys is that you can't be sarcastic or rude. You need to figure out how to just be completely unfazed by their requests and simply say no, while being polite. (being rude will trigger something bad in them.) No, smile, move on with your life. Don't really engage with their schemes, but don't be hostile about it.

I agree with this advice but can we take a moment to talk about the psychology of women like this taking advantage of people who have real vulnerabilities and how messed up that is?

Like one thing I've observed is that women like this don't really seem to understand what they are doing. They are, in one sense, socially stupid because they see a person like this who is a people pleaser or who has obvious insecurities but doesn't register those facts and adapt their behavior to them. Instead they just power right past it and wind up taking advantage of people like this, running them over, because it's a mean to an end, a way for them to get what they want by targeting people who will struggle to say no or put up a fight.

This is messed up. Yet women like this are often very socially rewarded and when they harm people the excuse is "well they didn't know." It almost seems sociopathic to me.

It reminds me of other situations where people in positions of power target people who are weak or who will struggle to resist in order to get what they want. If a man does this, for instance, by targeting people who are young or weak or insecure, I think most of us would recognize that to be exploitative and hold him accountable. Yet this is something women do to each other and it's normalized and rewarded. It's really curious to me.

[Anonymous]

Stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Oh, you want to be an ahole. Got it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Oh, you want to be an ahole. Got it!

How is standing up to someone who is trying to tell you what to do "being an ahole"? How is wanting to be left alone by someone who is ordering you around or violating your boundaries "being an ahole"? That makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

This is such an eye opening thread for me! I have been dealing with a woman exactly like this for a while and I am mystified as to why she appears to be so triggered by me! Can someone more socially fluent than me please analyze:

Her: tall, thin stunning blonde, fancy preppy clothes, rich husband, 2 adorable kids under 2, beautiful house and lots of fancy vacations. Went to a preppy undergrad school and works in Marketing. Very Americana upper class/upper middle class preppy life. Queen B with a group of less attractive women who follow her around. They are all really nice and I get along with them all individually!

Me: short petite middle eastern brunette. I’m basically her opposite in every way. I dress in understated and simple and classic clothes; I’m nerdy and bookish, grew up abroad with a lot of foreign travel; have certain perceived status signifiers but not at all comparable to her wealth. I have no idea why she has targeted me for bullying since the first time we met. She’d refuse to acknowledge me or make eye contact and only scowl at me if I looked her way. In groups she’d go out of her way to overshadow me and talk over me. If someone is talking about something…I’d know something about she will answer before I do and not let me get a word in. She either straight up bullies me or tries to boss me around. “Why did you wear the brown Birkenstocks? Get the cute silver ones!” Just randomly unsolicited advice.

She will also try to exclude me by giving me dirty looks and ensuring I don’t dare speak to “her” friends!

[Anonymous]

OP you should hang out with elementary school teachers. Not a high powered type A among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Once you figure this out, you will stop attracting these people into your life and you'll also not pay that much attention to them.

One of the keys is that you can't be sarcastic or rude. You need to figure out how to just be completely unfazed by their requests and simply say no, while being polite. (being rude will trigger something bad in them.) No, smile, move on with your life. Don't really engage with their schemes, but don't be hostile about it.

I agree with this advice but can we take a moment to talk about the psychology of women like this taking advantage of people who have real vulnerabilities and how messed up that is?

Like one thing I've observed is that women like this don't really seem to understand what they are doing. They are, in one sense, socially stupid because they see a person like this who is a people pleaser or who has obvious insecurities but doesn't register those facts and adapt their behavior to them. Instead they just power right past it and wind up taking advantage of people like this, running them over, because it's a mean to an end, a way for them to get what they want by targeting people who will struggle to say no or put up a fight.

This is messed up. Yet women like this are often very socially rewarded and when they harm people the excuse is "well they didn't know." It almost seems sociopathic to me.

It reminds me of other situations where people in positions of power target people who are weak or who will struggle to resist in order to get what they want. If a man does this, for instance, by targeting people who are young or weak or insecure, I think most of us would recognize that to be exploitative and hold him accountable. Yet this is something women do to each other and it's normalized and rewarded. It's really curious to me.

No one is going to baby you. Adult interactions are going to be more than "lets talk about our struggles and insecurities and validate each other's feelings and never ever provide even conversational, emotionally-neutral insights into what can change about a life situation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've lived in DC for over a decade now and I keep winding up in situations where I am in close proximity to a very specific type of woman: type A, overachiever, from a doting family (think super involved grandparents, parents who always told her she was smarter and better than other kids), married to a high earning man (usually a somewhat bro-y guy who is easy going but kind of dense and boring). Very smart to the point of being manipulative in social settings. Can gossip/talk $hit about other women in a way that never comes off as gossipy but accomplishes the same goal. Forceful (which I might say is a euphemism for pushy, but she and others would describe her as forceful or "a force of nature"). Maneuvers into positions of authority in every setting -- work, volunteer orgs, PTA, neighborhood, her regular barre studio, a wedding party, the dog park. Has two kinds of friends: (1) frenemies, who are women who are just like her against whom she competes for control of things, but they are surface friends and they secretly do not like each other, and (2) minions, women who look up to her and sing her praises at every turn and whom she is often "helping" in ways that some people (me) would find condescending and over-involved.

Not here to discuss whether this type of person is good or bad. It's a type. There are many in DC, and I would like to minimize my exposure to them. I have found that once I am in a community with this sort of person, it is hard to get her to ignore me or leave me alone, and she either tries to adopt me as a minion (most common, I really hate this, I don't want to be someone's acolyte and I really, really hate being told how to handle my life so it just doesn't work) or she will target me as a threat and start talking negatively about me behind my back. Directness doesn't work because they will either just steamroll over your direct request ("please stop suggesting jobs for me, I am not job hunting" and then they keep doing it because they are convinced you don't know what is best for you) or will attempt to manipulate and maneuver around it.

So I give up. I just want one place where I can be social and have friends in DC where there isn't a woman like this. If this is you, where do you NOT go. Or have any of you found a secret place where these women aren't? I just want to be free. I am tired. Would moving away from DC help? If so, where?

Why someone speaking about even anodyne aspects of your life in even a very casual, conversational fashion irritate you to the bone so much:

Narcissists strongly dislike being questioned because it threatens their fragile ego, exposes their insecurities, challenges their sense of superiority, and forces accountability they want to avoid, leading them to deflect, lie, gaslight, or attack the questioner instead of answering truthfully. Questions feel like personal attacks, forcing them to confront flaws or lies, which they cannot tolerate, as it contradicts their inflated self-image.

Why questioning triggers them:
Fear of exposure: Questions can reveal lies, mistakes, or weaknesses, making them feel vulnerable and exposed.
No accountability: They avoid responsibility, and answering requires admitting fault, which they resist.
Control & Power: Evasion maintains control and frustrates you, reinforcing their sense of dominance.
Insecurity: Their inflated self-image is a defense mechanism; questions chip away at it, triggering defensiveness or rage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Above poster is probably one of these types and a big thing I notice about them is they have no insecurity or humility whatsoever. Everything in their lives is perfect. Perfect husband, perfect kids, perfect house. If your life isn't perfect, you went wrong somewhere and you bring negative energy.
I think of it as being real! Nobody is in jail or anything but my family and house are far from perfect.

Everyone has insecurities.

No, they truly don't.
I was attempting friendship with one of these a while back and every conversation collapsed because of this.
"Mikeys not very athletic so I'm trying to encourage x and y. He said recess has been kind of a struggle." "That's strange. All my kids are super sporty, because we encourage being active in our family." I literally just said that we encourage that too!
"I'm going crazy with my kitchen remodel, the contractor did x and y." "I'm so glad we made sure to buy a beautifully maintained house so we never had to worry about that. My kitchen is amazing."

If they weren't insecure, they wouldn't feel the need to 'one-up' everything you say. It's their coping mechanism.

Preach! 🙌🏾

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Above poster is probably one of these types and a big thing I notice about them is they have no insecurity or humility whatsoever. Everything in their lives is perfect. Perfect husband, perfect kids, perfect house. If your life isn't perfect, you went wrong somewhere and you bring negative energy.
I think of it as being real! Nobody is in jail or anything but my family and house are far from perfect.

Everyone has insecurities.

No, they truly don't.
I was attempting friendship with one of these a while back and every conversation collapsed because of this.
"Mikeys not very athletic so I'm trying to encourage x and y. He said recess has been kind of a struggle." "That's strange. All my kids are super sporty, because we encourage being active in our family." I literally just said that we encourage that too!
"I'm going crazy with my kitchen remodel, the contractor did x and y." "I'm so glad we made sure to buy a beautifully maintained house so we never had to worry about that. My kitchen is amazing."

If they weren't insecure, they wouldn't feel the need to 'one-up' everything you say. It's their coping mechanism.

Preach! 🙌🏾

They are not one-upping, it is called having a conversation, a back and forth. Yes, we know narcissist don't like being questioned, like to have the last word, want everyone to share their worldview, but this is not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd say you probably won't find that lady at a Ren Faire.
Or your local Unitarian church

+1

Also: Contra dancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say you probably won't find that lady at a Ren Faire.
Or your local Unitarian church

+1

Also: Contra dancing.

or just talk to AI. It will validate you all day and never ask questions or provide wisdom or insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have run in a variety of circles/SES levels in my life. I encounter these types in all of those places. I can ID them immediately. They don't bother me too much though maybe because I have an RBF and I give of no vibes of needing anything and/or I just don't care what they do or think.

This is my goal. I want to just not care. I want to be able to respond to someone who is like "you know you should really be doing XYZ, like me -- here, let me help" with some sarcastic remark or just a dead stare and to walk away.

I was raised to be such a people pleaser and am really trying to undo that training but it's hard. I think I'm such a target for these women. I have finally figured out enough to recognize what they are doing and at least understand I don't want to be around it. But I still struggle to stand up to it.

I want to have enough comfort and confidence in myself to flex some power at them when they try to dominate in this way, so they learn to leave me alone. Right now I still lack the confidence. Argh. It's hard.

Once you figure this out, you will stop attracting these people into your life and you'll also not pay that much attention to them.

One of the keys is that you can't be sarcastic or rude. You need to figure out how to just be completely unfazed by their requests and simply say no, while being polite. (being rude will trigger something bad in them.) No, smile, move on with your life. Don't really engage with their schemes, but don't be hostile about it.

I agree with this advice but can we take a moment to talk about the psychology of women like this taking advantage of people who have real vulnerabilities and how messed up that is?

Like one thing I've observed is that women like this don't really seem to understand what they are doing. They are, in one sense, socially stupid because they see a person like this who is a people pleaser or who has obvious insecurities but doesn't register those facts and adapt their behavior to them. Instead they just power right past it and wind up taking advantage of people like this, running them over, because it's a mean to an end, a way for them to get what they want by targeting people who will struggle to say no or put up a fight.

This is messed up. Yet women like this are often very socially rewarded and when they harm people the excuse is "well they didn't know." It almost seems sociopathic to me.

It reminds me of other situations where people in positions of power target people who are weak or who will struggle to resist in order to get what they want. If a man does this, for instance, by targeting people who are young or weak or insecure, I think most of us would recognize that to be exploitative and hold him accountable. Yet this is something women do to each other and it's normalized and rewarded. It's really curious to me.

No one is going to baby you. Adult interactions are going to be more than "lets talk about our struggles and insecurities and validate each other's feelings and never ever provide even conversational, emotionally-neutral insights into what can change about a life situation."

I don't think it's about "babying" anyone. It's about not punching down. I think it's bizarre to seek to have control and influence over the other people's lives in general, but I think it's especially weird if it's someone who is clearly insecure or struggling. Usually my response to someone like that tis to be empathetic while also, yeah, staying emotionally neutral, because I don't want to get dragged into their business. I don't really even see it as my job to offer insights into how they might change things. In general I feel people's problems tend to be specific in a way that makes other people not particularly well suited to finding a solution anyway.

Being respectful of the fact that someone is an adult and and I'm not the boss of them is not "babying." It's actually normal.