Grey divorces

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it's not about the money! It's about the time and hassle. They'll probably have to be their other parent's next of kin and do a lot more caregiving for that person. And also a lot more caregiving for you, since you don't have their other parent as next of kin. You won't be 52 forever, eventually you'll be needing more help and you'll be safer living with another adult. I really hate knowing that there's nobody to call 911 for my dad because he lives alone.

You'll probably defend yourself by saying how much your marriage sucks and how awful your current spouse is. But saying "My spouse is just so awful, that's why I'm dumping him on my kids" isn't really that appealing to the kids. It's not going to be a justification in their eyes. Not that you need their permission, but you should have your eyes open about how it impacts them. Don't delude yourself here.

Eventually, one parent dies and the other lives alone. It's almost inevitable. Money, avoiding remarriage, and planning solve nearly all of the issues that PP raised. You must also accept that holidays will differ, and you may not always see your kids and grandkids.

Right, but it's a question of how long a parent lives alone. How long do the adult children have to be next of kin-- is it for the next 45 years, or just for 10 or so? It makes a difference. And the dealing-with-two-homes problem is real. Your kids will probably have to help maintain, then clean out and sell, two homes instead of one. Find two assisted livings. It can go any number of ways, and planning helps, but it's always going to be much more complicated than the vanilla scenario of an adequate marriage.

You definitely can't expect the same amount of time and attention from your adult kids as you're getting now. If they marry someone whose parents are also divorced, you're going to get 1/4 of the available time. Hope you're happy with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Genuinely curious how you could be 52 years old but you can't think of a way it affects your children. This is going to go very badly if you can't open your eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You might get in a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (like, someone with problem adult children, or who is broke or an alcoholic or whatever). This is what my mother did, she just blames the problems on everyone except her partner and thinks we all should help him out. You might have a second marriage that's just as unhappy as your first, so then that's the same amount of unhappiness but with much worse logistics.

If you or your father died married to each other, then the money would go to their other parent, which keeps it in the family and improves the circumstances of their other parent. That's a positive thing for adult children. If you die married to someone else, they get it and it'll probably end up with their children rather than your children. Not appealing.

So, help me understand this. You are an adult, and you might get into a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (if your parents can so can you, no questions). Does it mean that your parents have a right to insist on you never having a relationship or getting married? What about having kids- your kid might have a special need, and then your parents have to help you manage that and it messes up their retirement plans, can they forbid you from having children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You might get in a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (like, someone with problem adult children, or who is broke or an alcoholic or whatever). This is what my mother did, she just blames the problems on everyone except her partner and thinks we all should help him out. You might have a second marriage that's just as unhappy as your first, so then that's the same amount of unhappiness but with much worse logistics.

If you or your father died married to each other, then the money would go to their other parent, which keeps it in the family and improves the circumstances of their other parent. That's a positive thing for adult children. If you die married to someone else, they get it and it'll probably end up with their children rather than your children. Not appealing.

So, help me understand this. You are an adult, and you might get into a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (if your parents can so can you, no questions). Does it mean that your parents have a right to insist on you never having a relationship or getting married? What about having kids- your kid might have a special need, and then your parents have to help you manage that and it messes up their retirement plans, can they forbid you from having children?

Well no, they don't have to help me. Eventually I'll be helping them more and more and then most likely they'll be gone. A high needs child or problem spouse is not a burden on them in the same way. They won't be caring for me when I'm old and can't care for myself.

I don't think adult children have the right to insist that their parents stay single. I don't think that's necessarily a good deal for adult children. But I think we can all hope that our family members make good choices in marriage and divorce, because a bad choice affects the whole family. PP asked how gray divorce affects adult children and this is how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it's not about the money! It's about the time and hassle. They'll probably have to be their other parent's next of kin and do a lot more caregiving for that person. And also a lot more caregiving for you, since you don't have their other parent as next of kin. You won't be 52 forever, eventually you'll be needing more help and you'll be safer living with another adult. I really hate knowing that there's nobody to call 911 for my dad because he lives alone.

You'll probably defend yourself by saying how much your marriage sucks and how awful your current spouse is. But saying "My spouse is just so awful, that's why I'm dumping him on my kids" isn't really that appealing to the kids. It's not going to be a justification in their eyes. Not that you need their permission, but you should have your eyes open about how it impacts them. Don't delude yourself here.

Eventually, one parent dies and the other lives alone. It's almost inevitable. Money, avoiding remarriage, and planning solve nearly all of the issues that PP raised. You must also accept that holidays will differ, and you may not always see your kids and grandkids.

Right, but it's a question of how long a parent lives alone. How long do the adult children have to be next of kin-- is it for the next 45 years, or just for 10 or so? It makes a difference. And the dealing-with-two-homes problem is real. Your kids will probably have to help maintain, then clean out and sell, two homes instead of one. Find two assisted livings. It can go any number of ways, and planning helps, but it's always going to be much more complicated than the vanilla scenario of an adequate marriage.

You definitely can't expect the same amount of time and attention from your adult kids as you're getting now. If they marry someone whose parents are also divorced, you're going to get 1/4 of the available time. Hope you're happy with it.

I'm in the middle of it, too, and I am really sad at how it will impact my minor kids now and in the future. I'm sad for me, too – because it will mean that I spend at least 50% of holidays alone, but probably far more. It sucks. I didn't want this, but it only takes one to divorce. But I do intend to do as much planning as possible to lighten the eventual load on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

I'm the poster of a few pages back who now basically lives apart from my spouse in our second home with no plans to formally separate or divorce.

If I were brutally honest, we too probably should have never married. We were very young (by DCUM standards) and pregnant. And obviously I wish we were closer still shared a more romantic love. But I can't say I regret getting married and wish I didn't. And I certainly don't hate my spouse!

We created an amazing family together and our kids and grandkids love both of us dearly. We're all very close and have great (and frequent) times together as a family before each of us retreats to our own space. It's only when it's just the two of us alone in the same physical space when friction bubbles to the surface, so we just avoid that when we can. And it's not hard since we have two houses.

Last night is a good example of how things go with us. Texting each other from the two houses coordinating helping with grandkids. Spouse says a few days are opening up because they decided against a trip with a really good old friend because it was too expensive. I said no, go and don't worry about the money. The response was "you know full well I don't spend that much money for just a long weekend," to which I responded "exactly and that's why you can afford to do it this time so just do it!" Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but you have to stop NOW." Had we had the same conversation in person, it probably would have ended in a fight. By text, it ended with my spouse making a reservation for a nice trip and sending me a very nice "thank you" after it was all said and done.

Ideal? Nope. Not even close. But things could be a lot worse. We're certainly not going to blow up decades over it. We're both silently committed to making this work.

This is completely f-ed up on many levels. But maybe you realize that. When not just work on yourselves instead of live apart,?

Not sure what you mean by “work on yourselves.” You mean work on our marriage? Nope, we’re done with that. We’re just not getting divorced. Not sure why it’s so f-ed up on “many levels.” What levels exactly? I’m genuinely curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

I'm the poster of a few pages back who now basically lives apart from my spouse in our second home with no plans to formally separate or divorce.

If I were brutally honest, we too probably should have never married. We were very young (by DCUM standards) and pregnant. And obviously I wish we were closer still shared a more romantic love. But I can't say I regret getting married and wish I didn't. And I certainly don't hate my spouse!

We created an amazing family together and our kids and grandkids love both of us dearly. We're all very close and have great (and frequent) times together as a family before each of us retreats to our own space. It's only when it's just the two of us alone in the same physical space when friction bubbles to the surface, so we just avoid that when we can. And it's not hard since we have two houses.

Last night is a good example of how things go with us. Texting each other from the two houses coordinating helping with grandkids. Spouse says a few days are opening up because they decided against a trip with a really good old friend because it was too expensive. I said no, go and don't worry about the money. The response was "you know full well I don't spend that much money for just a long weekend," to which I responded "exactly and that's why you can afford to do it this time so just do it!" Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but you have to stop NOW." Had we had the same conversation in person, it probably would have ended in a fight. By text, it ended with my spouse making a reservation for a nice trip and sending me a very nice "thank you" after it was all said and done.

Ideal? Nope. Not even close. But things could be a lot worse. We're certainly not going to blow up decades over it. We're both silently committed to making this work.

This is completely f-ed up on many levels. But maybe you realize that. When not just work on yourselves instead of live apart,?

Not sure what you mean by “work on yourselves.” You mean work on our marriage? Nope, we’re done with that. We’re just not getting divorced. Not sure why it’s so f-ed up on “many levels.” What levels exactly? I’m genuinely curious.

So you’re done working on your marriage but will stay in it indefinitely? I find it hard to believe that no one is finding a companionship that is lacking. Why cut off that part of your life and not even work on improving an apparently important relationship????

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if it’s common but I’m sure as hell looking forward to mine. I’ve got about 5-8 years left, depending on how much longer I can tolerate our marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

I'm the poster of a few pages back who now basically lives apart from my spouse in our second home with no plans to formally separate or divorce.

If I were brutally honest, we too probably should have never married. We were very young (by DCUM standards) and pregnant. And obviously I wish we were closer still shared a more romantic love. But I can't say I regret getting married and wish I didn't. And I certainly don't hate my spouse!

We created an amazing family together and our kids and grandkids love both of us dearly. We're all very close and have great (and frequent) times together as a family before each of us retreats to our own space. It's only when it's just the two of us alone in the same physical space when friction bubbles to the surface, so we just avoid that when we can. And it's not hard since we have two houses.

Last night is a good example of how things go with us. Texting each other from the two houses coordinating helping with grandkids. Spouse says a few days are opening up because they decided against a trip with a really good old friend because it was too expensive. I said no, go and don't worry about the money. The response was "you know full well I don't spend that much money for just a long weekend," to which I responded "exactly and that's why you can afford to do it this time so just do it!" Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but you have to stop NOW." Had we had the same conversation in person, it probably would have ended in a fight. By text, it ended with my spouse making a reservation for a nice trip and sending me a very nice "thank you" after it was all said and done.

Ideal? Nope. Not even close. But things could be a lot worse. We're certainly not going to blow up decades over it. We're both silently committed to making this work.

This is completely f-ed up on many levels. But maybe you realize that. When not just work on yourselves instead of live apart,?

Not sure what you mean by “work on yourselves.” You mean work on our marriage? Nope, we’re done with that. We’re just not getting divorced. Not sure why it’s so f-ed up on “many levels.” What levels exactly? I’m genuinely curious.

So you’re done working on your marriage but will stay in it indefinitely? I find it hard to believe that no one is finding a companionship that is lacking. Why cut off that part of your life and not even work on improving an apparently important relationship????

Huh? Could you try again, only this time in coherent English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

You mean you’re staying for the free high quality child care, cooking, home mgmt, scheduling, health monitoring, cleaning and logistics mgmt your unpaid wife is doing, while also working a full time job or not.

Oh and you also get an ego and image boost because you appear like a functional Family Guy. Not only working all the time but likeable enough to still be married and see your kids anytime when convenient.

So instead of fixing the underlying issues in your marriage and household, you tag along like the selfish leech that you are, doing your own thing but continuing the facade of a married father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because they still have to spend time with both of you but it's not like they suddenly get 2x the vacation time just because their parents are divorced.

Because managing two aging adults in separate properties is harder than one property. And because you might be single so your children, rather than a spouse or partner, has to be next of kin.

Stop thinking about how this will be in your 50s-70s. Think about how it will be in your 80s and 90s.

Exactly. Make Ma continue to take care of that ManChild. Easier for you and him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They don’t confide in you, plain and simple.

It’s bizarre how invested you are in huge narrative about the relationships of people you do not know. Another sign of dysfunction. Consider therapy.

She just said it’s true you’re super invested in being a contrarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's common except the stuggle part.

The gray divorces I know (at least the women) are all financially secure and more than happy being single.

I think they ones that would face financial and emotion struggle are just white knuckling it and staying.

I know a few long term SAHMs who chose gray divorce, once their husbands were at retirement. They stayed during the working years, and then become financially sound by taking (rightfully) half of the retirement and savings and having their own life/retirement with more choices.

I'll never understand this tradeoff. Life is so short, I just don't understand being miserable for years and then once you are well into your late 50s suddenly you have all this grandiose plans with all this money. Travel, romance, fun sex etc all of that is more enjoyable when you are younger

Kids. That's it. Some parents choose delayed gratification to raise their kids under one roof and tuck them in every night. But once their off and we feel we've done the lion's share of our job as parents, it's our turn to focus on our happiness again with whatever time we have left.

This is me as well. I have basically hated my wife for 15 years, but sacrificed my happiness for my kids stability. I never cheated and I do regret marrying her, but my commitment is more important than my happiness. 2 more years….

I'm the poster of a few pages back who now basically lives apart from my spouse in our second home with no plans to formally separate or divorce.

If I were brutally honest, we too probably should have never married. We were very young (by DCUM standards) and pregnant. And obviously I wish we were closer still shared a more romantic love. But I can't say I regret getting married and wish I didn't. And I certainly don't hate my spouse!

We created an amazing family together and our kids and grandkids love both of us dearly. We're all very close and have great (and frequent) times together as a family before each of us retreats to our own space. It's only when it's just the two of us alone in the same physical space when friction bubbles to the surface, so we just avoid that when we can. And it's not hard since we have two houses.

Last night is a good example of how things go with us. Texting each other from the two houses coordinating helping with grandkids. Spouse says a few days are opening up because they decided against a trip with a really good old friend because it was too expensive. I said no, go and don't worry about the money. The response was "you know full well I don't spend that much money for just a long weekend," to which I responded "exactly and that's why you can afford to do it this time so just do it!" Long story short, I eventually prevailed after threatening to buy and send the tickets myself -- because I knew they really wanted to go. The conversation ended with a "fine, I'll do it but you have to stop NOW." Had we had the same conversation in person, it probably would have ended in a fight. By text, it ended with my spouse making a reservation for a nice trip and sending me a very nice "thank you" after it was all said and done.

Ideal? Nope. Not even close. But things could be a lot worse. We're certainly not going to blow up decades over it. We're both silently committed to making this work.

This is completely f-ed up on many levels. But maybe you realize that. When not just work on yourselves instead of live apart,?

Not sure what you mean by “work on yourselves.” You mean work on our marriage? Nope, we’re done with that. We’re just not getting divorced. Not sure why it’s so f-ed up on “many levels.” What levels exactly? I’m genuinely curious.

lol.

Easy Button

[Anonymous]

We all know what a Gray Divorce means.

It means the husband was a deadweight father and husband. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray divorce is a massive pain in the ass for your adult children. Stick it out for 10 years, then you won't care and can just live like room mates.

Why? Genuinely curious since I’m in the middle of one. I’ll come out of it financially stable and won’t need to work (I’m 52). Two adult kids who have graduated college already. Plans are made for who pays for weddings etc.

Because it opens the door to all kinds of bad things. You might get in a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (like, someone with problem adult children, or who is broke or an alcoholic or whatever). This is what my mother did, she just blames the problems on everyone except her partner and thinks we all should help him out. You might have a second marriage that's just as unhappy as your first, so then that's the same amount of unhappiness but with much worse logistics.

If you or your father died married to each other, then the money would go to their other parent, which keeps it in the family and improves the circumstances of their other parent. That's a positive thing for adult children. If you die married to someone else, they get it and it'll probably end up with their children rather than your children. Not appealing.

So, help me understand this. You are an adult, and you might get into a relationship or marry someone who brings problems to the family (if your parents can so can you, no questions). Does it mean that your parents have a right to insist on you never having a relationship or getting married? What about having kids- your kid might have a special need, and then your parents have to help you manage that and it messes up their retirement plans, can they forbid you from having children?

Well no, they don't have to help me. Eventually I'll be helping them more and more and then most likely they'll be gone. A high needs child or problem spouse is not a burden on them in the same way. They won't be caring for me when I'm old and can't care for myself.

I don't think adult children have the right to insist that their parents stay single. I don't think that's necessarily a good deal for adult children. But I think we can all hope that our family members make good choices in marriage and divorce, because a bad choice affects the whole family. PP asked how gray divorce affects adult children and this is how.

See, that’s what everyone thinks. When you have to make an adjustment to your life to address my needs, it’s not a big deal, and, besides, you should be doing it lovingly. When I have to make an adjustment to my life to meet your needs, it’s a major issue.

In reality, you don’t know. Lots of younger second wives end up taking full time care of their husbands, and that ends up a net positive to adult children. Lots of older women outlive their husbands, so you’ll have to deal with your elderly mom either way. And if your parents are prone to making bad decisions, they will get you with or without a second marriage.