This is weaponized incompetence, yes? What to do about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Ok, but he does do all kinds of stuff. He does pickup/dropoff twice a week. Helps with homework. He cooks for the rest of the family at least once a week and makes enough for leftovers. He does laundry without being asked. He is kind and thoughtful towards me, will make me tea every morning or tell me to go get a workout in on the weekend while he does stuff with the kids. He's generally a kind and thoughtful parent and partner.

My issue isn't even that he doesn't want to do this stuff. If he told me "I hate vacuuming, what if you do that and I'll do something else instead," I'd be totally fine with that. If he problem solved with me about the picky eating and was like "ugh, I know I'm not getting this or following what they told us to do, maybe I need to work on this to come up with something that makes more sense to me" I'd welcome that-- like I said, the stuff we do on that front us a PITA and the only reason I've bought in is that we had reached a point where she was literally eating nothing but bread and berries and sometimes not even that and that's just not a functional diet.

It's specifically the problem of watching this 45 yr old man act like this stuff is simply beyond his mental capacity that drives me crazy. It's obviously not. Why does he pretend?

I'm a wife and I'll say I don't know how the internet/cable works in our house, I don't know how to do anything with our cars except fill them gas/plug them in and drop them off somewhere, I don't know how to work the grill, I don't know anything about the garden or landscaping. I don't care to learn. Those are my husband's areas, and it's not worth it to have us both know 100% about everything anyway because that's not efficient. Conversely, he doesn't know what size clothes our kids wear (all girls), what is in our Amazon Subscribe and Save list, what kind of shampoo/conditioner/body wash the kids use, or what sort of stain treatments I use on laundry. Now, we both know how to fully take care of our children, who their teachers are and what they need for school, doctors/dentists and when and where appointments are, travel, everything related to the dogs, etc. So many things we do 50/50 (the things we think are important in terms of who does what), and other things we are each 100% responsible for. (And some things, like house cleaning, we outsource).

It sounds like your husband does do a lot and is otherwise pretty thoughtful. It's possible that the things you listed are difficult for him for some reason. To this day, my mom has trouble with the TV remote, cannot work an iPad to save her life, and never charges her cell phone. She has never been good at that kind of stuff despite being a CPA who worked for the biggest bank in the US doing multi-billion dollar loans. I would probably choose the things you can just accept 100% responsibility for so that you don't get annoyed that he doesn't participate in those things, and have a discussion about the big items. If it were me, I'd tackle the food thing.

Ok, but do you act like those things you don't know anything about are beyond your understanding, or do you just say "yes, DH handles that so I haven't bothered to learn." It seems like a subtle difference but it's actually big, because in one instance you are acknowledging a division of labor and in the other you are acting helpless to avoid doing something.

It's the acting helpless/stupid, that is the problem. I have things I either don't like to do, or DH does them better than I would, or I would handle in another way that might not be to his liking. For instance, while handy with cars and carpentry, I am intimidated by plumbing and electrical and if we have issues in those areas, my attitude is that we can either hire someone or DH can handle. I am fine either way and if we hire someone, I'm happy to do it. DH prefers to try and figure it out himself by watching some YouTube videos and ordering parts online, and likes saving money this way. That's great, I support him in this. But I don't act helpless about it. In fact, I probably could also figure out how to do those things myself by watching videos and making an effort. It's just not worth it to me and if I lived alone I'd just hire someone.

This is different than standing there looking bewildered about something and waiting for your spouse to come over and do it for you. Or saying stuff like "oh, I would LOVE to be the one handling all the school stuff, but my wife is just naturally better at it," which is both a lie (actually he would not love to handle it) and also diminishes the fact that his wife actually puts effort into it and it's not just magically easy for her.

The comparison to your mom is actually an interesting one because it's common for older people to have trouble with technology, because they didn't grow up with it. I do feel sympathetic towards my mom about this, as she is like your mom. But I've also noticed that not all older people are this way, and the difference is generally not natural aptitude for technology. It's willingness to learn. My mom doesn't understand email or cell phones because, on some level, she doesn't want to. Her sister understands these things because she's decided it's worth it to her. So even though I'm sympathetic to how it must be harder to learn this stuff when the technology didn't even exist until you were in your 60s or 70s, I also think there is an element of feigned incompetence there, because it is easier for my mom to get someone else to do that stuff for her than to figure it out herself. I'm not the one doing it for her all the time (my dad, my aunt, or my brother and his wife generally are) so it doesn't bother me that much. But I do think she could figure it out if she tried.

PP here. I mean, I could open my car’s user manual and see what kind of oil it needs, google where to buy it (or get it from Amazon? I have no idea), and then watch a You Tube video to figure out how to put it in but I just don’t, basically because I don’t want to. So it’s a division of labor but also I guess a forced one? Like my husband is forced to put oil in the car because I just won’t deal with it. (Although I’m not an idiot so obviously if he refused to help I’d figure it out, I wouldn’t keep driving my car with no oil in it until something happened to it).

Same with the grill. It’s charcoal and I’m sure it’s not rocket science to figure out how it works but I’d rather just cook the chicken another way or use the skillet on the stove to make a burger, etc., even though I will acknowledge that I prefer certain foods grilled. So if we’re having burgers for dinner, then my husband better finish his work and be in the kitchen in time to make them. Conversely, if we’re having spaghetti, either one of us can make that.

I’m guessing your husband doesn’t like vacuuming, and he doesn’t like cleaning bathrooms, so he figures it’s easier to say he doesn’t know how than to do it. Clearly he can read the bottle of cleaner or Google which attachment to use for various surfaces but he doesn’t want to. At the end of the day, I believe if you were let’s say deployed for six months he would have someone else clean (and if my husband were gone for six months I’d probably just eat burgers out so I wouldn’t end up having to figure out the grill). I will say that if my husband said to me “I’m getting really frustrated because I feel like I’m always the one who has to grill and since the kids always pick grilled things for dinner I’m making dinner all the time and I need some help” I’d be willing to figure it out. But we communicate well and are happy so I know that’s not the case. I wonder if your husband thinks this stuff doesn’t bother you so that’s why he keeps doing it?

As I said before, it sounds like you mostly have a great marriage and he’s a really good and thoughtful partner, so that’s great. I would probably push on the kid food thing because personally that’s not something I would be willing to shoulder 100% on my own. Maybe if you discuss it with him it’ll give you some insight into why he seems incompetent in the other areas. But my guess, based on myself, is that he doesn’t care to learn and he doesn’t see a downside to putting those things wholly on you.

Also, my mom could use our remote back in the 90’s so she’s always been technically challenged! I actually don’t think it’s a willingness to learn there - I think she has serious issues with technology and this day and age of course it’s a bigger deal than it used to be.

[Anonymous]

Hire a housekeeper, you probably dominate everything so its best to defer to you and stop complaining about him online as he has other good qualities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Ok, but he does do all kinds of stuff. He does pickup/dropoff twice a week. Helps with homework. He cooks for the rest of the family at least once a week and makes enough for leftovers. He does laundry without being asked. He is kind and thoughtful towards me, will make me tea every morning or tell me to go get a workout in on the weekend while he does stuff with the kids. He's generally a kind and thoughtful parent and partner.

My issue isn't even that he doesn't want to do this stuff. If he told me "I hate vacuuming, what if you do that and I'll do something else instead," I'd be totally fine with that. If he problem solved with me about the picky eating and was like "ugh, I know I'm not getting this or following what they told us to do, maybe I need to work on this to come up with something that makes more sense to me" I'd welcome that-- like I said, the stuff we do on that front us a PITA and the only reason I've bought in is that we had reached a point where she was literally eating nothing but bread and berries and sometimes not even that and that's just not a functional diet.

It's specifically the problem of watching this 45 yr old man act like this stuff is simply beyond his mental capacity that drives me crazy. It's obviously not. Why does he pretend?

I'm a wife and I'll say I don't know how the internet/cable works in our house, I don't know how to do anything with our cars except fill them gas/plug them in and drop them off somewhere, I don't know how to work the grill, I don't know anything about the garden or landscaping. I don't care to learn. Those are my husband's areas, and it's not worth it to have us both know 100% about everything anyway because that's not efficient. Conversely, he doesn't know what size clothes our kids wear (all girls), what is in our Amazon Subscribe and Save list, what kind of shampoo/conditioner/body wash the kids use, or what sort of stain treatments I use on laundry. Now, we both know how to fully take care of our children, who their teachers are and what they need for school, doctors/dentists and when and where appointments are, travel, everything related to the dogs, etc. So many things we do 50/50 (the things we think are important in terms of who does what), and other things we are each 100% responsible for. (And some things, like house cleaning, we outsource).

It sounds like your husband does do a lot and is otherwise pretty thoughtful. It's possible that the things you listed are difficult for him for some reason. To this day, my mom has trouble with the TV remote, cannot work an iPad to save her life, and never charges her cell phone. She has never been good at that kind of stuff despite being a CPA who worked for the biggest bank in the US doing multi-billion dollar loans. I would probably choose the things you can just accept 100% responsibility for so that you don't get annoyed that he doesn't participate in those things, and have a discussion about the big items. If it were me, I'd tackle the food thing.

So you listed out you do the pink jobs and he does the blue jobs and your daughters see that. Yeah maintain the patriarchy and call it division of labor.

If the branches in the back of the house don’t get trimmed it’s not a big deal. But your subscribe and save doesn’t work what happens.

If he died or divorce you could you fix it and figure it out. Do your kids see that? How do they see that.

I do see so many people frustrated w dumb shit like cleaning - hire someone and don’t eat out once a week and then you don’t fight about.

Are you showing your kids how to be resilient. I hate gardening so I don’t have a garden. But I have a hot water heater, I know how to turn off the water if there is a leak to call a plumber, I know the questions to ask her when she comes over, I know how to survive w no water for a day. My kid sees this.

Sorry this upsets you so much. The things I care about, like taking care of our children, feeding them, taking them to appointments, being involved in their school and sports, taking them places, and listening/talking to them about life - those we both do. Things like taking out the trash or buying clothes aren’t important.

During COVID my husband cleaned the house because my job was busier than his (we normally have cleaners but didn’t for a period of time beginning in March 2020). He also did the majority of the home schooling when the kids weren’t in person. He cooks and cleans the kitchen as much as I do, if not more. We both work around the same hours for about the same pay so our kids know that his job isn’t more important than mine, that he’s just as likely to go pick them up from school if they’re sick, and that he is just as involved in their lives as I am. He hasn’t missed a parent/teacher conference of theirs but I have. Oh, and he took paternity leave and used to spend mornings with them before the nanny came because I left for work at the crack of dawn. He’s traveled with them alone, stayed at home with them when I’m gone without help. He is no less capable of a parent than I am.

We happen to be better at or more interested in certain things so those we divvy up. If you want to think I’m boosting the patriarchy because of that, it doesn’t bother me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Ok, but he does do all kinds of stuff. He does pickup/dropoff twice a week. Helps with homework. He cooks for the rest of the family at least once a week and makes enough for leftovers. He does laundry without being asked. He is kind and thoughtful towards me, will make me tea every morning or tell me to go get a workout in on the weekend while he does stuff with the kids. He's generally a kind and thoughtful parent and partner.

My issue isn't even that he doesn't want to do this stuff. If he told me "I hate vacuuming, what if you do that and I'll do something else instead," I'd be totally fine with that. If he problem solved with me about the picky eating and was like "ugh, I know I'm not getting this or following what they told us to do, maybe I need to work on this to come up with something that makes more sense to me" I'd welcome that-- like I said, the stuff we do on that front us a PITA and the only reason I've bought in is that we had reached a point where she was literally eating nothing but bread and berries and sometimes not even that and that's just not a functional diet.

It's specifically the problem of watching this 45 yr old man act like this stuff is simply beyond his mental capacity that drives me crazy. It's obviously not. Why does he pretend?

I'm a wife and I'll say I don't know how the internet/cable works in our house, I don't know how to do anything with our cars except fill them gas/plug them in and drop them off somewhere, I don't know how to work the grill, I don't know anything about the garden or landscaping. I don't care to learn. Those are my husband's areas, and it's not worth it to have us both know 100% about everything anyway because that's not efficient. Conversely, he doesn't know what size clothes our kids wear (all girls), what is in our Amazon Subscribe and Save list, what kind of shampoo/conditioner/body wash the kids use, or what sort of stain treatments I use on laundry. Now, we both know how to fully take care of our children, who their teachers are and what they need for school, doctors/dentists and when and where appointments are, travel, everything related to the dogs, etc. So many things we do 50/50 (the things we think are important in terms of who does what), and other things we are each 100% responsible for. (And some things, like house cleaning, we outsource).

It sounds like your husband does do a lot and is otherwise pretty thoughtful. It's possible that the things you listed are difficult for him for some reason. To this day, my mom has trouble with the TV remote, cannot work an iPad to save her life, and never charges her cell phone. She has never been good at that kind of stuff despite being a CPA who worked for the biggest bank in the US doing multi-billion dollar loans. I would probably choose the things you can just accept 100% responsibility for so that you don't get annoyed that he doesn't participate in those things, and have a discussion about the big items. If it were me, I'd tackle the food thing.

So you listed out you do the pink jobs and he does the blue jobs and your daughters see that. Yeah maintain the patriarchy and call it division of labor.

If the branches in the back of the house don’t get trimmed it’s not a big deal. But your subscribe and save doesn’t work what happens.

If he died or divorce you could you fix it and figure it out. Do your kids see that? How do they see that.

I do see so many people frustrated w dumb shit like cleaning - hire someone and don’t eat out once a week and then you don’t fight about.

Are you showing your kids how to be resilient. I hate gardening so I don’t have a garden. But I have a hot water heater, I know how to turn off the water if there is a leak to call a plumber, I know the questions to ask her when she comes over, I know how to survive w no water for a day. My kid sees this.

DP but you sound unhinged. Maybe stop teaching your own kids that your so-called “pink jobs” are lesser than the “blue jobs”. Your attitude is what is really upholding the patriarchy.

And FWIW, you’ll realize that keeping the trees trimmed was actually more important than the subscribe and save the next derecho blows through and a falling branch destroys part of your roof…

Also have you added up the hours of work you do vs. him.

Setting up the internet - 5 minutes; the internet companies have designed it so a 5th grader can do it. But once its set its done; yard work (from March to October - but I suppose that includes shoveling the snow); car stuff as you said you can take it to the repair shop; is he changing your oil and saving you $30 every three months? How often do you grill - once a week; does he buy the meat for it - so is he making dinner once a week or is he standing in front a grill; grilling meat you bought for 20 minutes while you are inside making sides and a salad and then doing the clean up because he stood in the outside for 20 minutes?

You are dealing with your daughters wants and needs; body issues (hopefully they don't have them); ordering clothes or going shopping; trying things on; returning things; dealing with what they like vs. what you think is appropriate). Subscribe and save should be easy but if they are out of something do you then go to the store or spend 20 minutes to find the replacement item.

Yeah I'm unhinged but maybe I have a lot of leisure time to add up the hours of work you do; vs. the amount of time you are research a stain removal solution. He btw is not grilling today so is he ordering pizza?

I’m the PP who posted that my husband grills. The horror!

In terms of hours, we both work until everything is done for the day. If after dinner I have to fold laundry, he’ll clean the kitchen. If he has to break down the recycling boxes and take the trash and recycling out to the curb, I’ll walk the dogs.

You keep screaming about how ridiculous men are when I’m perfectly happy being married to my husband and he is just as present and engaged in our family as I am. Our kids don’t come to me when they’re hungry - they’ll talk to either of us. They don’t search me out for homework help - they’ll ask whoever is free. They don’t think I work for them and their dad is just there for fun. For the tasks we deem important, we both do it. We swap mornings as to who is in charge of getting the kids ready for school (we all eat breakfast together but one person wakes them up and gets them dressed), for example. We are basically interchangeable when it comes to our children. He even bottle fed them when they were babies because it seemed stupid for me to be doing all that work. He probably changed more diapers than I did as well because recovering from a c-section limited my mobility in the beginning and after that it was 50/50.

Anyway, you sound both unhinged and unhappy so you can keep railing all you want and I hope you’ll find some peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your definition of "generally a good partner and dad" is wildly different from mine

Ok, but he does do all kinds of stuff. He does pickup/dropoff twice a week. Helps with homework. He cooks for the rest of the family at least once a week and makes enough for leftovers. He does laundry without being asked. He is kind and thoughtful towards me, will make me tea every morning or tell me to go get a workout in on the weekend while he does stuff with the kids. He's generally a kind and thoughtful parent and partner.

My issue isn't even that he doesn't want to do this stuff. If he told me "I hate vacuuming, what if you do that and I'll do something else instead," I'd be totally fine with that. If he problem solved with me about the picky eating and was like "ugh, I know I'm not getting this or following what they told us to do, maybe I need to work on this to come up with something that makes more sense to me" I'd welcome that-- like I said, the stuff we do on that front us a PITA and the only reason I've bought in is that we had reached a point where she was literally eating nothing but bread and berries and sometimes not even that and that's just not a functional diet.

It's specifically the problem of watching this 45 yr old man act like this stuff is simply beyond his mental capacity that drives me crazy. It's obviously not. Why does he pretend?

I'm a wife and I'll say I don't know how the internet/cable works in our house, I don't know how to do anything with our cars except fill them gas/plug them in and drop them off somewhere, I don't know how to work the grill, I don't know anything about the garden or landscaping. I don't care to learn. Those are my husband's areas, and it's not worth it to have us both know 100% about everything anyway because that's not efficient. Conversely, he doesn't know what size clothes our kids wear (all girls), what is in our Amazon Subscribe and Save list, what kind of shampoo/conditioner/body wash the kids use, or what sort of stain treatments I use on laundry. Now, we both know how to fully take care of our children, who their teachers are and what they need for school, doctors/dentists and when and where appointments are, travel, everything related to the dogs, etc. So many things we do 50/50 (the things we think are important in terms of who does what), and other things we are each 100% responsible for. (And some things, like house cleaning, we outsource).

It sounds like your husband does do a lot and is otherwise pretty thoughtful. It's possible that the things you listed are difficult for him for some reason. To this day, my mom has trouble with the TV remote, cannot work an iPad to save her life, and never charges her cell phone. She has never been good at that kind of stuff despite being a CPA who worked for the biggest bank in the US doing multi-billion dollar loans. I would probably choose the things you can just accept 100% responsibility for so that you don't get annoyed that he doesn't participate in those things, and have a discussion about the big items. If it were me, I'd tackle the food thing.

So you listed out you do the pink jobs and he does the blue jobs and your daughters see that. Yeah maintain the patriarchy and call it division of labor.

If the branches in the back of the house don’t get trimmed it’s not a big deal. But your subscribe and save doesn’t work what happens.

If he died or divorce you could you fix it and figure it out. Do your kids see that? How do they see that.

I do see so many people frustrated w dumb shit like cleaning - hire someone and don’t eat out once a week and then you don’t fight about.

Are you showing your kids how to be resilient. I hate gardening so I don’t have a garden. But I have a hot water heater, I know how to turn off the water if there is a leak to call a plumber, I know the questions to ask her when she comes over, I know how to survive w no water for a day. My kid sees this.

DP but you sound unhinged. Maybe stop teaching your own kids that your so-called “pink jobs” are lesser than the “blue jobs”. Your attitude is what is really upholding the patriarchy.

And FWIW, you’ll realize that keeping the trees trimmed was actually more important than the subscribe and save the next derecho blows through and a falling branch destroys part of your roof…

Also have you added up the hours of work you do vs. him.

Setting up the internet - 5 minutes; the internet companies have designed it so a 5th grader can do it. But once its set its done; yard work (from March to October - but I suppose that includes shoveling the snow); car stuff as you said you can take it to the repair shop; is he changing your oil and saving you $30 every three months? How often do you grill - once a week; does he buy the meat for it - so is he making dinner once a week or is he standing in front a grill; grilling meat you bought for 20 minutes while you are inside making sides and a salad and then doing the clean up because he stood in the outside for 20 minutes?

You are dealing with your daughters wants and needs; body issues (hopefully they don't have them); ordering clothes or going shopping; trying things on; returning things; dealing with what they like vs. what you think is appropriate). Subscribe and save should be easy but if they are out of something do you then go to the store or spend 20 minutes to find the replacement item.

Yeah I'm unhinged but maybe I have a lot of leisure time to add up the hours of work you do; vs. the amount of time you are research a stain removal solution. He btw is not grilling today so is he ordering pizza?

Oh, and he made pad Thai for dinner tonight. I didn’t felt great tonight so I’m now laying in bed scrolling DCUM while he’s cleaning the kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

So you’re writing a thesis but you have trouble interpreting data. Good luck with that!

[Anonymous]

NP. Your husband doesn't do any of these things you speak of because the simple fact is he does not care about them. If he cared, he would make an effort. He sees that you get upset and he doesn't care about that, either.

You can't force your DH to care more, so either suck it up and do it all yourself or start thinking about making a drastic change. You and DH seem to be incompatible, specifically when it comes to parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

The vast majority of the standards on here and Reddit are low as heck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

This is the reality.

Plus women don’t count stuff men actually do.

My friend said our family went and cut down our Xmas teee. I thought did u, her h was like how much cutting did you do and how much standing around drinking coco did you do?

And comments like, well I picked the best one it’s like u think it really matters which one you picked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hire a housekeeper, you probably dominate everything so its best to defer to you and stop complaining about him online as he has other good qualities.

I can’t get enough of the manly men who can’t help but be cowed by their dominant, nagging wives. It’s not their fault! Who could stand up to someone complaining about how the vacuuming was done? Hercules himself would turn into a simpering manbaby.

[Anonymous]

I don't know where you guys get this BS about this being the fault of women's standards. My DH doesn't clean almost at all and part of the problem is HIS standards. I was like "why don't you ever vacuum?" and he said he hates it because you have to move all the furniture around and it's a pain. I was like what are you talking about, most of the time when I vacuum I just hit the high traffic areas and leave moving furniture for an occasional deep clean.

I can do a quick clean of the bathroom in like 10 minutes. It's not thorough but gets it presentable enough. If DH cleans the shower it will take him an hour. I don't criticize him if he dies this, but the reason he does it so rarely (like once every two years) is that he has this idea it's a huge undertaking.

I think part of the problem is that he cleaned so rarely when he lived alone that when he did clean, it was a lot of work because he'd let things really build up. I clean more frequently but kind of half-ass it, and it's fine I do it frequently enough that the house never gets that dirty.

The upshot is that I do all the cleaning because he is overwhelmed by it and also only cleans things if they are so filthy you can't ignore them, and I don't let the house get that dirty. In the last 5 years he's cleaned twice, once when I had Covid and once when I was on bedrest with my pregnancy for a month. And both times he complained about how hard it was even though I was too incapacitated to care what or how he did it.

It's not about women's standards being too high. It's about men being lazy and putting stuff off until it's a huge hassle, and then being touchy and irritable about it when they finally do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where you guys get this BS about this being the fault of women's standards. My DH doesn't clean almost at all and part of the problem is HIS standards. I was like "why don't you ever vacuum?" and he said he hates it because you have to move all the furniture around and it's a pain. I was like what are you talking about, most of the time when I vacuum I just hit the high traffic areas and leave moving furniture for an occasional deep clean.

I can do a quick clean of the bathroom in like 10 minutes. It's not thorough but gets it presentable enough. If DH cleans the shower it will take him an hour. I don't criticize him if he dies this, but the reason he does it so rarely (like once every two years) is that he has this idea it's a huge undertaking.

I think part of the problem is that he cleaned so rarely when he lived alone that when he did clean, it was a lot of work because he'd let things really build up. I clean more frequently but kind of half-ass it, and it's fine I do it frequently enough that the house never gets that dirty.

The upshot is that I do all the cleaning because he is overwhelmed by it and also only cleans things if they are so filthy you can't ignore them, and I don't let the house get that dirty. In the last 5 years he's cleaned twice, once when I had Covid and once when I was on bedrest with my pregnancy for a month. And both times he complained about how hard it was even though I was too incapacitated to care what or how he did it.

It's not about women's standards being too high. It's about men being lazy and putting stuff off until it's a huge hassle, and then being touchy and irritable about it when they finally do it.

You are wrong but you’re too much of a control freak to get it or ever admit it.

Move furniture? Not necessary. I don’t eat behind my couch.

If you werent such a freak he’d clean like a normal person and go … that’s not so bad but you have him moving furniture… wtf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hire a housekeeper, you probably dominate everything so its best to defer to you and stop complaining about him online as he has other good qualities.

I can’t get enough of the manly men who can’t help but be cowed by their dominant, nagging wives. It’s not their fault! Who could stand up to someone complaining about how the vacuuming was done? Hercules himself would turn into a simpering manbaby.

They do stand up to their wives and not do the insanely ridiculous things she asks, then she acts like a martyr and says she “does it all”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where you guys get this BS about this being the fault of women's standards. My DH doesn't clean almost at all and part of the problem is HIS standards. I was like "why don't you ever vacuum?" and he said he hates it because you have to move all the furniture around and it's a pain. I was like what are you talking about, most of the time when I vacuum I just hit the high traffic areas and leave moving furniture for an occasional deep clean.

I can do a quick clean of the bathroom in like 10 minutes. It's not thorough but gets it presentable enough. If DH cleans the shower it will take him an hour. I don't criticize him if he dies this, but the reason he does it so rarely (like once every two years) is that he has this idea it's a huge undertaking.

I think part of the problem is that he cleaned so rarely when he lived alone that when he did clean, it was a lot of work because he'd let things really build up. I clean more frequently but kind of half-ass it, and it's fine I do it frequently enough that the house never gets that dirty.

The upshot is that I do all the cleaning because he is overwhelmed by it and also only cleans things if they are so filthy you can't ignore them, and I don't let the house get that dirty. In the last 5 years he's cleaned twice, once when I had Covid and once when I was on bedrest with my pregnancy for a month. And both times he complained about how hard it was even though I was too incapacitated to care what or how he did it.

It's not about women's standards being too high. It's about men being lazy and putting stuff off until it's a huge hassle, and then being touchy and irritable about it when they finally do it.

Every situation is different. And it sounds like your husband's standards are not there - and he needs to pay for a cleaner if he can't do the bare meinimum.

But for a lot of women the bare minimum (which is what I do) is not good enough; and I hear things like he needs to clean the counter with this not that; he doens't wipe it off left to right but right to left.

Women who complain about the kids having donuts for breakfast on dad's day; or who don't vacuum the knap in the carpet the "right" way are intentionally driving themselves crazy and it has nothing to do with their husband.

I hear from all my friends - oh they won't get a vegetable; they will go to the store in their pajamas; etc. And again why is that a problem? Who is dying? Its his way to to do it? If the kids don't have rickets and are warm why does it matter.

Your husband needs to grow the f&*& up. And you should book a cleaner and use his CC - if he can't do his 50% then he can pay to have someone do it. If he wants to save money he can step up. This should not be negotiable.