This is weaponized incompetence, yes? What to do about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

This is the reality.

Plus women don’t count stuff men actually do.

My friend said our family went and cut down our Xmas teee. I thought did u, her h was like how much cutting did you do and how much standing around drinking coco did you do?

And comments like, well I picked the best one it’s like u think it really matters which one you picked.

This. I am convinced my husband does way more than I do but he just.doesn’t.complain or get as frazzled, stressed, or tired. He just has a “get sh!t done” and move on attitude, and once I realized this about him I started to notice it with a lot of other men in my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know where you guys get this BS about this being the fault of women's standards. My DH doesn't clean almost at all and part of the problem is HIS standards. I was like "why don't you ever vacuum?" and he said he hates it because you have to move all the furniture around and it's a pain. I was like what are you talking about, most of the time when I vacuum I just hit the high traffic areas and leave moving furniture for an occasional deep clean.

I can do a quick clean of the bathroom in like 10 minutes. It's not thorough but gets it presentable enough. If DH cleans the shower it will take him an hour. I don't criticize him if he dies this, but the reason he does it so rarely (like once every two years) is that he has this idea it's a huge undertaking.

I think part of the problem is that he cleaned so rarely when he lived alone that when he did clean, it was a lot of work because he'd let things really build up. I clean more frequently but kind of half-ass it, and it's fine I do it frequently enough that the house never gets that dirty.

The upshot is that I do all the cleaning because he is overwhelmed by it and also only cleans things if they are so filthy you can't ignore them, and I don't let the house get that dirty. In the last 5 years he's cleaned twice, once when I had Covid and once when I was on bedrest with my pregnancy for a month. And both times he complained about how hard it was even though I was too incapacitated to care what or how he did it.

It's not about women's standards being too high. It's about men being lazy and putting stuff off until it's a huge hassle, and then being touchy and irritable about it when they finally do it.

Every situation is different. And it sounds like your husband's standards are not there - and he needs to pay for a cleaner if he can't do the bare meinimum.

But for a lot of women the bare minimum (which is what I do) is not good enough; and I hear things like he needs to clean the counter with this not that; he doens't wipe it off left to right but right to left.

Women who complain about the kids having donuts for breakfast on dad's day; or who don't vacuum the knap in the carpet the "right" way are intentionally driving themselves crazy and it has nothing to do with their husband.

I hear from all my friends - oh they won't get a vegetable; they will go to the store in their pajamas; etc. And again why is that a problem? Who is dying? Its his way to to do it? If the kids don't have rickets and are warm why does it matter.

Your husband needs to grow the f&*& up. And you should book a cleaner and use his CC - if he can't do his 50% then he can pay to have someone do it. If he wants to save money he can step up. This should not be negotiable.

Cleaners don’t even move furniture

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Thank God for the military. My veteran husband cleans everything nearly perfectly. Men are in a sad state of affairs these days. He’d laugh his ass off at another man who couldn’t get a kids food restrictions right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Thank God for the military. My veteran husband cleans everything nearly perfectly. Men are in a sad state of affairs these days. He’d laugh his ass off at another man who couldn’t get a kids food restrictions right.

This when your completely neurotic find another completely neurotic person and your all good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is generally a good partner and dad. We get along. This isn't a post about how I hate him and want to change everything about him or should never have gotten married.

But I do think he "weaponizes incompetence" often. Meaning he claims to be incapable of doing things (generally related to parenting or cleaning) in order to get out of them. Examples:

- We have an extremely picky eater who eats a pretty narrow range of foods. We work with a nutritionist and our pediatrician to address the pickiness and ensure she gets enough to eat. He claims all the time he doesn't know what to feed her even though he attends these appointments and talks to these people. He "forgets" basic rules our nutritionist has given us for feeding her, like not giving her large portion sizes of anything and making sure she always has at least 3 things on her plate. I agree it's a PITA but he claims he is simply incapable of doing these things. If left to his own devices, he will give her a bowl of cereal for any meal because he can't remember what else she will eat.

- He claims not to understand how the vacuum cleaner works. There was an incident many years ago where he used the "wrong" setting on a rug and it kind of messed up the rug. It wasn't an expensive rug and it lived in the play room and no one really cared. Since then he simply does not vacuum and if I ask him to vacuum he'll say "I don't want to mess it up, can you do it." The mistake he made is one anyone could make.

- He claims not to understand which cleaning supplies are needed for which tasks, and as a result will only clean the bathroom if I literally set out the cleaning materials and say "this is for the toilet, this is for the shower" etc.

- He defers to me on anything related to school, even though he receives all the school communications and there is no reason I would know more about any of it than he does. But he makes it sound like it's all a mystery, like who could possibly know when grades come out or that there is a school event on Friday. It's literally there on his phone, he even gets alerts and texts, and yet he talks to me like I am the oracle of all things school.

How do you address stuff like this? Again, generally a good parent and partner but he does this stuff and I'm like "You're 45, you have an advanced degree, you manage to figure this stuff out at work." I know people will say "get cleaners" for the cleaning stuff but that won't address the underlying issue which is this tendency to pretend like he's incompetent in order to force me to do things he doesn't want to do.

Your husband is avoiding tasks. The question is why . Are you critical when he does do these tasks because they are not done "correctly?" That might start a cycle of avoidance from an otherwise capable person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't be a perfectionist, he'll feel less intimidated around you.

This. Done is better than perfect. It sounds like you were micromanaging him and now he's done with all that. Stop micromanaging and expect he'll do a crappy job. Ask if he's OK with the crumbs left on the floor or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Like 90% of the comments on this thread are "well it must be your fault, you must criticize him too much."

Bull$hit.

When I got married, my DH used to criticize stuff all the time. He's a great cook and he'd nitpick my cooking constantly, hover over me in the kitchen on the nights I cooked, etc. Did I suddenly claim I didn't know how to cook? No, because I'm not a 7 year old child. I told him "When you cook, do it your way. When I cook, I do it my way. I do not like you hovering over me and correcting me, so stop." And he did.

So if a woman is criticizing how her spouse is doing something, there is no reason he can't say "hey, you are being too critical -- let me do it my way." In fact my DH also says this to me sometimes about housekeeping and parenting, and when he does I lay off. We are both adults so we act like it. Neither of us is perfect.

A man who just stops doing basic stuff or feigns total incompetence at simple things like vacuuming or feeding your kid is LOOKING for an out. You could provide no feedback at all and he'd claim you were being too critical. He just doesn't want to do it.

And based on the replies in this thread, a lot of people buy into a dynamic where he shouldn't have to, because apparently in order for a man to do basic household and parenting tasks, his wife must invite him to do it in the perfect way, with the perfect tone of voice, and encourage him and never criticize in the most supportive way. Yes I call BS. If my DH was feeding our kid cereal for dinner even though there are is perfectly good food in the house and she has nutritional deficiencies, you bet I'm going to say "What is this? She needs to eat something else. At least give her some fruit and a spoonful of peanut butter to go with this." Because duh. I don't need to dance around his sensitive baby feelings. He's in his 40s and is a parent. He can handle a little feedback from his parenting partner, especially when he's phoning it in in a way that is actually undermining something important.

Good lord the prancing around the masculine ego around here. Get over it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Help. Teach. Make it easier. Encourage. Praise. Reward. Boast about it to others from where he can hear.

That’s a smart idea, OP.

If that doesn’t work, you might just have to accept that there are things he will and won’t do and that’s how he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

This is the reality.

Plus women don’t count stuff men actually do.

My friend said our family went and cut down our Xmas teee. I thought did u, her h was like how much cutting did you do and how much standing around drinking coco did you do?

And comments like, well I picked the best one it’s like u think it really matters which one you picked.

This. I am convinced my husband does way more than I do but he just.doesn’t.complain or get as frazzled, stressed, or tired. He just has a “get sh!t done” and move on attitude, and once I realized this about him I started to notice it with a lot of other men in my life.

Send him to my house. Def no “get it done” male here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like 90% of the comments on this thread are "well it must be your fault, you must criticize him too much."

Bull$hit.

When I got married, my DH used to criticize stuff all the time. He's a great cook and he'd nitpick my cooking constantly, hover over me in the kitchen on the nights I cooked, etc. Did I suddenly claim I didn't know how to cook? No, because I'm not a 7 year old child. I told him "When you cook, do it your way. When I cook, I do it my way. I do not like you hovering over me and correcting me, so stop." And he did.

So if a woman is criticizing how her spouse is doing something, there is no reason he can't say "hey, you are being too critical -- let me do it my way." In fact my DH also says this to me sometimes about housekeeping and parenting, and when he does I lay off. We are both adults so we act like it. Neither of us is perfect.

A man who just stops doing basic stuff or feigns total incompetence at simple things like vacuuming or feeding your kid is LOOKING for an out. You could provide no feedback at all and he'd claim you were being too critical. He just doesn't want to do it.

And based on the replies in this thread, a lot of people buy into a dynamic where he shouldn't have to, because apparently in order for a man to do basic household and parenting tasks, his wife must invite him to do it in the perfect way, with the perfect tone of voice, and encourage him and never criticize in the most supportive way. Yes I call BS. If my DH was feeding our kid cereal for dinner even though there are is perfectly good food in the house and she has nutritional deficiencies, you bet I'm going to say "What is this? She needs to eat something else. At least give her some fruit and a spoonful of peanut butter to go with this." Because duh. I don't need to dance around his sensitive baby feelings. He's in his 40s and is a parent. He can handle a little feedback from his parenting partner, especially when he's phoning it in in a way that is actually undermining something important.

Good lord the prancing around the masculine ego around here. Get over it.

Agree, well said.

[Anonymous]

I finally got so annoyed just this past weekend around this issue. Husband asked for minestrone soup - which the recipe I have is labor intensive, but whatever, it's raining, good soup weather, so let's do it. But said you're helping. So he cuts and slices not even close to how it "should" be (like sliced potatoes, not diced) but who cares! They're cut. Then walks away. Nope. I said get back here, clean up. You don't just walk away from your mess, you clean it, just like I'm cleaning up after myself and the mess I'm making. And then I called it like it was and told him I'm not falling for his weaponized incompetence, and I'm not the maid in the house, we all are. He came back and cleaned up his potato juices off the counter cutting board and that was that.

To be very clear - he was trying to watch the golf and really didn't want to help at all. But too bad. You ask for labor intensive soup, you're helping from now on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like 90% of the comments on this thread are "well it must be your fault, you must criticize him too much."

Bull$hit.

When I got married, my DH used to criticize stuff all the time. He's a great cook and he'd nitpick my cooking constantly, hover over me in the kitchen on the nights I cooked, etc. Did I suddenly claim I didn't know how to cook? No, because I'm not a 7 year old child. I told him "When you cook, do it your way. When I cook, I do it my way. I do not like you hovering over me and correcting me, so stop." And he did.

So if a woman is criticizing how her spouse is doing something, there is no reason he can't say "hey, you are being too critical -- let me do it my way." In fact my DH also says this to me sometimes about housekeeping and parenting, and when he does I lay off. We are both adults so we act like it. Neither of us is perfect.

A man who just stops doing basic stuff or feigns total incompetence at simple things like vacuuming or feeding your kid is LOOKING for an out. You could provide no feedback at all and he'd claim you were being too critical. He just doesn't want to do it.

And based on the replies in this thread, a lot of people buy into a dynamic where he shouldn't have to, because apparently in order for a man to do basic household and parenting tasks, his wife must invite him to do it in the perfect way, with the perfect tone of voice, and encourage him and never criticize in the most supportive way. Yes I call BS. If my DH was feeding our kid cereal for dinner even though there are is perfectly good food in the house and she has nutritional deficiencies, you bet I'm going to say "What is this? She needs to eat something else. At least give her some fruit and a spoonful of peanut butter to go with this." Because duh. I don't need to dance around his sensitive baby feelings. He's in his 40s and is a parent. He can handle a little feedback from his parenting partner, especially when he's phoning it in in a way that is actually undermining something important.

Good lord the prancing around the masculine ego around here. Get over it.

Most people are not saying anything is her fault. Most people are saying she’s looking for problems. And the wife shouldn’t invite or order her husband to do ANYTHING (and vice versa) unless it is actually meant to be as a favor. If you don’t want a dynamic where you feel like your spouse’s parent, stop acting like you’re their parent! Duh! Just because the wives of DCUM like to p!ss and moan and act like martyrs doesn’t make them right.

Tl;dr - you’re not the boss, sweetheart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just checking in to say thank you for this thread and another reminder to be joyful that I never married or had kids with any of the manbabies who tried to snare me as their cum hole and housekeeper/life manager.

I hate to tell you ladies, but being single and free of all this BS is really quite wonderful!

Being married to a great man is even better! Weird that you’d come on here trying to make yourself feel better. You seem really happy.

Great men are like unicorns.

I don’t come here to make myself feel better, although reading here does quickly dissipate any feelings of FOMO I might ever feel about never marrying. It’s a trap for women.

I’m working on a thesis on misogyny as manifest in the unequal division of labor in American marriages in the early 21st century after 50+ years of the second wave of the women’s movement. This place is rich with anecdotal material to supplement more formal studies of the phenomenon.

Women are getting the shaft.

Check out HBR of division labor. They have a longitudinal study. Women are still at 60% and the deeper dive is they are to blame

I’ve talked to several friends whose husbands do a lot or they are in a period where she is busier w a project so he’s in charge of all household duties etc. And it’s still at 60% and they realize it’s their standards forcing them to clean behind him, or remind him about something. It’s crazy. And once they realize it they stop and no longer feel as frazzled.

This is the reality.

Plus women don’t count stuff men actually do.

My friend said our family went and cut down our Xmas teee. I thought did u, her h was like how much cutting did you do and how much standing around drinking coco did you do?

And comments like, well I picked the best one it’s like u think it really matters which one you picked.

This. I am convinced my husband does way more than I do but he just.doesn’t.complain or get as frazzled, stressed, or tired. He just has a “get sh!t done” and move on attitude, and once I realized this about him I started to notice it with a lot of other men in my life.

Send him to my house. Def no “get it done” male here.

I don’t know, PP. I’ve never seen him vacuum or clean the toilet, so according to the ladies on this thread I should divorce him and you would want to steer clear…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I finally got so annoyed just this past weekend around this issue. Husband asked for minestrone soup - which the recipe I have is labor intensive, but whatever, it's raining, good soup weather, so let's do it. But said you're helping. So he cuts and slices not even close to how it "should" be (like sliced potatoes, not diced) but who cares! They're cut. Then walks away. Nope. I said get back here, clean up. You don't just walk away from your mess, you clean it, just like I'm cleaning up after myself and the mess I'm making. And then I called it like it was and told him I'm not falling for his weaponized incompetence, and I'm not the maid in the house, we all are. He came back and cleaned up his potato juices off the counter cutting board and that was that.

To be very clear - he was trying to watch the golf and really didn't want to help at all. But too bad. You ask for labor intensive soup, you're helping from now on!

Here’s a thought: next time just tell him “no” instead of grudgingly agreeing and then being a total a$$ about it. I predict divorce in your future. You’ll feel you’re dumping dead weight, and he will be RELIEVED to be free of you. So the upside is it will be a win-win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like 90% of the comments on this thread are "well it must be your fault, you must criticize him too much."

Bull$hit.

When I got married, my DH used to criticize stuff all the time. He's a great cook and he'd nitpick my cooking constantly, hover over me in the kitchen on the nights I cooked, etc. Did I suddenly claim I didn't know how to cook? No, because I'm not a 7 year old child. I told him "When you cook, do it your way. When I cook, I do it my way. I do not like you hovering over me and correcting me, so stop." And he did.

So if a woman is criticizing how her spouse is doing something, there is no reason he can't say "hey, you are being too critical -- let me do it my way." In fact my DH also says this to me sometimes about housekeeping and parenting, and when he does I lay off. We are both adults so we act like it. Neither of us is perfect.

A man who just stops doing basic stuff or feigns total incompetence at simple things like vacuuming or feeding your kid is LOOKING for an out. You could provide no feedback at all and he'd claim you were being too critical. He just doesn't want to do it.

And based on the replies in this thread, a lot of people buy into a dynamic where he shouldn't have to, because apparently in order for a man to do basic household and parenting tasks, his wife must invite him to do it in the perfect way, with the perfect tone of voice, and encourage him and never criticize in the most supportive way. Yes I call BS. If my DH was feeding our kid cereal for dinner even though there are is perfectly good food in the house and she has nutritional deficiencies, you bet I'm going to say "What is this? She needs to eat something else. At least give her some fruit and a spoonful of peanut butter to go with this." Because duh. I don't need to dance around his sensitive baby feelings. He's in his 40s and is a parent. He can handle a little feedback from his parenting partner, especially when he's phoning it in in a way that is actually undermining something important.

Good lord the prancing around the masculine ego around here. Get over it.

Agree, well said.

Plus 1