DH wants "open relationship" after my affair...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not weighing in on the original post, as I suspect fabrication or at least significant embellishment. But on a side note, the amount of hate-filled bile being spewed towards women in general in this thread is seriously unnerving.

It is being directed towards cheaters - and in this case that happens to be a woman. You see the same vitriol in threads where men cheat.

PUHHHHLEASE!

The double standard is alive and well.

If you spent much time on this site you will see that the double standard is mostly that all men are bumbling idiots and dog and women are saints who put up with men.

People don't like cheaters and I am pleasantly surprised and glad that posters here didn't give her a free pass or try and rationalize it as okay because she is a woman.

[Anonymous]

What a depressing thread. OP needs to grow up. Wanting your old life back is wanting your cake and eating it too. You won't get either, most likely, if you continue the way you are going. Get a lawyer, get a divorce as quickly as possible. Focus on creating a civil relationship at least with your ex and with your daughters. They are in a very fragile stage of life right now where they look at you and see an awful role model. They do not respect you and do not want to be like you. If you think your DH should just forgive you and let you move in and begin your old life again, you are very naive and immature. Try to focus on doing what's right for a change, not on doing what's best for you at the moment. This is your DDs only chance to be teenagers, and you are ruining it for them. Pull yourself together and focus on them, not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a 42 year old woman. I am married to what appears to everyone in public to be the "perfect man" - well educated, kind, a great father, decent provider, etc. We have two lovely teen girls together. However, about three years ago, I found myself in a very unhappy place and, in a lapse of judgement, I had a furtive, torrid affair with a guy I met at the gym. In any case, my DH discovered the affair. He kicked me out of the house (I came home to literrally find my bags on the doorstep and the locks changed), separating me from my DDs, and told me not to come back until I ended the affair with the OM and would agree to counseling. I briefly moved in with the OM, but then decided that I wanted my DH and my family back!

DH, however, has been very (I think unfairly) strict with me. He told me to get an apartment on my own, find a job (I was a SAHM who had been out of the workforce for a good 12 years. I am now working a job with a non-profit that is low paid - $20 - $30K - even though I have an Ivy education) and to seek individual therapy before we do family therapy. He says he wants to know all the sexual details of my relationship with OM and that I should be willing to do with DH anything I did with OM and that he may want to explore having an open relationship.

I just want to get my old life back, but I think DH needs to stop being so mean!!! I realize I did wrong, that the source of my unhappiness that led to the affair was me and not DH (I was bored SAHM) and that I can work on regaining DH's trust. I feel if he is asking for the open relationship, I am in danger of losing him permanently. We are in Virginia and I also fear that he may use my affair and the separation - coming up on 8 months - as the grounds for a divorce and that he would use it against me in any property or other settlement, leaving me with nothing. I am so sad and angry at the same time, but mostly at myself for getting into this situation. If anyone can sympathize or give me some good advice, I would appreciate it.

Victim of cheater here. Wanting to know the details is normal for some people. Some people want to know, others don't. You must respect your partner (whom you victimized). If he wants to know the details, then you have a choice -- tell or don't tell but leave. If you refuse to tell, or tell but with a spin or omission that is later left out, it's a deal breaker for your partner. The reason it's a deal breaker is that if you won't divulge details, it means that you are keeping secrets and that is the root of affair behavior.

A affair perpetrator who withholds requested details from the partner who asks for them is demonstrating that they are not willing to admit to (and thus accept responsibility for) the affair behavior and reasons for the affair. Believing that you should be able to keep this private is manipulative to your partner -- you are asking him to make decisions about his life (i.e. getting back together with you) on the basis of information that you are manipulating/hiding. That is not fair. He deserves to know whatever details he wants and then make whatever decision he feels comfortable with. He may ask for an open relationship. Then you have to consider whether that is something you want.

My advice is to tell him anything he wants to know about the affair, within some kind of limited timeframe, i.e. for the next month you can ask me anything you want and I will tell you, but after that I think it will be time for us to decide how to move on wether individually or together. Then tell him. Be honest. Don't omit things or try to spin them in your favor. But, also don't embellish stories to "twist the knife" as another suggested. If he wants to know something painful, respect him and tell him what he asks about. It is up to him whether he wants to know and thinks he can handle the information. Even if it turns out to be damaging, this is HIS choice.

Also, I hate to break this to you -- you are never getting your old life back. Even if you and your DH get back together in a monogamous relationship, it will not be your old life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No sympathy. You fucked up. Except for demanding the intimate details of the affair (maybe you should provide those -- in graphic detail -- if you want to twist the knife?), I would probably do the same thing.

I hope he gets custody, too.

+1

[Anonymous]

I have no issue with the OP's husband wanting details. What I have a problem with is him demanding that she then do all those things with him, or no chance of reconciliation. To me, that is painfully close to the idea that a wife must do anything sexually that her husband requires, whether she wants to or not. Obviously they will need at some point to resume intimacy, but recreating the sexual acts she did with Gym Guy is too creepy and coercive for me to consider it a rational or acceptable requirement.

Details, yes. Requirement to perform those acts or else, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no issue with the OP's husband wanting details. What I have a problem with is him demanding that she then do all those things with him, or no chance of reconciliation. To me, that is painfully close to the idea that a wife must do anything sexually that her husband requires, whether she wants to or not. Obviously they will need at some point to resume intimacy, but recreating the sexual acts she did with Gym Guy is too creepy and coercive for me to consider it a rational or acceptable requirement.

Details, yes. Requirement to perform those acts or else, no.

So, don't you see that her refusal to do those acts with him makes it worse?

He's still not worthy to her, eh? Not good enough to get xxx...
Yeah, that's a good way to get him back.
But as we all know, she just wants things the way they were. Where she didn't have to give him xxx.

That's saved for OM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no issue with the OP's husband wanting details. What I have a problem with is him demanding that she then do all those things with him, or no chance of reconciliation. To me, that is painfully close to the idea that a wife must do anything sexually that her husband requires, whether she wants to or not. Obviously they will need at some point to resume intimacy, but recreating the sexual acts she did with Gym Guy is too creepy and coercive for me to consider it a rational or acceptable requirement.

Details, yes. Requirement to perform those acts or else, no.

So, don't you see that her refusal to do those acts with him makes it worse?

He's still not worthy to her, eh? Not good enough to get xxx...
Yeah, that's a good way to get him back.
But as we all know, she just wants things the way they were. Where she didn't have to give him xxx.

That's saved for OM.

Not pp, but I think it's creepy that op's husband expects her to do the same sexual acts she did with the other dude. Husband has problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a 42 year old woman. I am married to what appears to everyone in public to be the "perfect man" - well educated, kind, a great father, decent provider, etc. We have two lovely teen girls together. However, about three years ago, I found myself in a very unhappy place and, in a lapse of judgement, I had a furtive, torrid affair with a guy I met at the gym. In any case, my DH discovered the affair. He kicked me out of the house (I came home to literrally find my bags on the doorstep and the locks changed), separating me from my DDs, and told me not to come back until I ended the affair with the OM and would agree to counseling. I briefly moved in with the OM, but then decided that I wanted my DH and my family back!

DH, however, has been very (I think unfairly) strict with me. He told me to get an apartment on my own, find a job (I was a SAHM who had been out of the workforce for a good 12 years. I am now working a job with a non-profit that is low paid - $20 - $30K - even though I have an Ivy education) and to seek individual therapy before we do family therapy. He says he wants to know all the sexual details of my relationship with OM and that I should be willing to do with DH anything I did with OM and that he may want to explore having an open relationship.

I just want to get my old life back, but I think DH needs to stop being so mean!!! I realize I did wrong, that the source of my unhappiness that led to the affair was me and not DH (I was bored SAHM) and that I can work on regaining DH's trust. I feel if he is asking for the open relationship, I am in danger of losing him permanently. We are in Virginia and I also fear that he may use my affair and the separation - coming up on 8 months - as the grounds for a divorce and that he would use it against me in any property or other settlement, leaving me with nothing. I am so sad and angry at the same time, but mostly at myself for getting into this situation. If anyone can sympathize or give me some good advice, I would appreciate it.

Op I think that this is the best advice that you're going to get. There is no way to undo what you've done. Even 3 year olds learn the hard way that when they smash their birthday cake in a fit of temper that cake is not ever going to look the same again. You either find a way to appreciate that mess of a cake or you toss it in the trash and go get yourself a new one...

Victim of cheater here. Wanting to know the details is normal for some people. Some people want to know, others don't. You must respect your partner (whom you victimized). If he wants to know the details, then you have a choice -- tell or don't tell but leave. If you refuse to tell, or tell but with a spin or omission that is later left out, it's a deal breaker for your partner. The reason it's a deal breaker is that if you won't divulge details, it means that you are keeping secrets and that is the root of affair behavior.

A affair perpetrator who withholds requested details from the partner who asks for them is demonstrating that they are not willing to admit to (and thus accept responsibility for) the affair behavior and reasons for the affair. Believing that you should be able to keep this private is manipulative to your partner -- you are asking him to make decisions about his life (i.e. getting back together with you) on the basis of information that you are manipulating/hiding. That is not fair. He deserves to know whatever details he wants and then make whatever decision he feels comfortable with. He may ask for an open relationship. Then you have to consider whether that is something you want.

My advice is to tell him anything he wants to know about the affair, within some kind of limited timeframe, i.e. for the next month you can ask me anything you want and I will tell you, but after that I think it will be time for us to decide how to move on wether individually or together. Then tell him. Be honest. Don't omit things or try to spin them in your favor. But, also don't embellish stories to "twist the knife" as another suggested. If he wants to know something painful, respect him and tell him what he asks about. It is up to him whether he wants to know and thinks he can handle the information. Even if it turns out to be damaging, this is HIS choice.

Also, I hate to break this to you -- you are never getting your old life back. Even if you and your DH get back together in a monogamous relationship, it will not be your old life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no issue with the OP's husband wanting details. What I have a problem with is him demanding that she then do all those things with him, or no chance of reconciliation. To me, that is painfully close to the idea that a wife must do anything sexually that her husband requires, whether she wants to or not. Obviously they will need at some point to resume intimacy, but recreating the sexual acts she did with Gym Guy is too creepy and coercive for me to consider it a rational or acceptable requirement.

Details, yes. Requirement to perform those acts or else, no.

So, don't you see that her refusal to do those acts with him makes it worse?

He's still not worthy to her, eh? Not good enough to get xxx...
Yeah, that's a good way to get him back.
But as we all know, she just wants things the way they were. Where she didn't have to give him xxx.

That's saved for OM.

I am perfectly ok with any woman, no matter what she's done, to refuse to perform sexual acts when they're demanded of her. I think it's creepy that her husband wants to recreate her affair.

If the only way to get him back is to allow him to humiliate her sexually (and I cannot understand how this could be anything but that), she's better off without him.

I don't condone what she did, but agree with the poster up thread who is fairly disturbed by the woman hate on this thread. I think the OP is immature and deluding herself if she thinks she can get her old life back. I disagree that she is like a rapist, as one poster suggested.The only person in this situation who sounds like a rapist, or like a person with potential to be a rapist, is the husband demanding total sexual control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no issue with the OP's husband wanting details. What I have a problem with is him demanding that she then do all those things with him, or no chance of reconciliation. To me, that is painfully close to the idea that a wife must do anything sexually that her husband requires, whether she wants to or not. Obviously they will need at some point to resume intimacy, but recreating the sexual acts she did with Gym Guy is too creepy and coercive for me to consider it a rational or acceptable requirement.

Details, yes. Requirement to perform those acts or else, no.

So, don't you see that her refusal to do those acts with him makes it worse?

He's still not worthy to her, eh? Not good enough to get xxx...
Yeah, that's a good way to get him back.
But as we all know, she just wants things the way they were. Where she didn't have to give him xxx.

That's saved for OM.

how many of us there actually think that's what he said? Not very likely that OP is telling what exactly her H said.

I am perfectly ok with any woman, no matter what she's done, to refuse to perform sexual acts when they're demanded of her. I think it's creepy that her husband wants to recreate her affair.

If the only way to get him back is to allow him to humiliate her sexually (and I cannot understand how this could be anything but that), she's better off without him.

I don't condone what she did, but agree with the poster up thread who is fairly disturbed by the woman hate on this thread. I think the OP is immature and deluding herself if she thinks she can get her old life back. I disagree that she is like a rapist, as one poster suggested.The only person in this situation who sounds like a rapist, or like a person with potential to be a rapist, is the husband demanding total sexual control.

[Anonymous]

She's free to not do the same sexual acts with her husband. He's free to leave the marriage. Easy. And that's not rape. That's a choice.

I'm not sure I could remain in a marriage with a woman who was more open sexually with another man than she is with me.

[Anonymous]

Why would the OP be GGG with the OM but not her DH? It appears to me that if she did snsl with OM and that is ehat her husband would want too she should have no objection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's free to not do the same sexual acts with her husband. He's free to leave the marriage. Easy. And that's not rape. That's a choice.

I'm the poster who who noted the hate towards women up thread, and this is what I'm talking about: this reductionist view of women than distills them down to their sexuality and nothing else. Do I give OP a pass? Of course not. OP's behavior, if she's real, was reckless, hurtful, and likely, fatal. Let's face it…a multi-year affair with a period of live-in time with affair partner is likely the death knell for that marriage. A scenario in which they could recover from this level of betrayal involves acknowledgement of the DH's hurt and anger, remorse on the part of OP, and sure, details of her relationship with OM. Yes to all of that. But this insistence that offering her husband complete sexual license of her body as a road back to forgiveness is harmful to both parties. It's also likely to be ineffective. The graphic, imagined scenarios between OP and OM described up thread (I'm looking at you, Centurion), are about two things: sex and anger. Put those concepts together and you get violence. And that's what much of this thread smacks of. It's not about defending infidelity. It's about rejecting hatred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's free to not do the same sexual acts with her husband. He's free to leave the marriage. Easy. And that's not rape. That's a choice.

I'm the poster who who noted the hate towards women up thread, and this is what I'm talking about: this reductionist view of women than distills them down to their sexuality and nothing else. Do I give OP a pass? Of course not. OP's behavior, if she's real, was reckless, hurtful, and likely, fatal. Let's face it…a multi-year affair with a period of live-in time with affair partner is likely the death knell for that marriage. A scenario in which they could recover from this level of betrayal involves acknowledgement of the DH's hurt and anger, remorse on the part of OP, and sure, details of her relationship with OM. Yes to all of that. But this insistence that offering her husband complete sexual license of her body as a road back to forgiveness is harmful to both parties. It's also likely to be ineffective. The graphic, imagined scenarios between OP and OM described up thread (I'm looking at you, Centurion), are about two things: sex and anger. Put those concepts together and you get violence. And that's what much of this thread smacks of. It's not about defending infidelity. It's about rejecting hatred.

the assumption is that this is actually true. it's what OP posted - not necessarily what H actually SAID. Even as a man whose exWife cheated, I very much doubt he wants the option for full 'assault' on her body. I personally think he's trying to get as much information and detail to document for the divorce and the eventual reduction of her allocation of joint assets - that's what i would do b/c I would absolutely feel no guilt or remorse dumping her on her ass penniless or close to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Raise the fine?!

It's not enforceable any more. See Lawrence v Texas.

Then overturn Lawrence v Texas and raise the fine. We need the money in Virginia -- especially Arlington -- for our "desirable" schools.