How to forgive spouse for initiating a gray divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

Based on the number of dads at our private who are in their early or mid 60s with preschoolers, I don’t think 60 magically closes a door for men unless the are poor.

But if they have a preschooler, they landed their woman in their fifties. Who wants to do 60-something men unless they are very rich, like $50m+ with a plane, a yacht, and a staffed house? By 60, most men look really wrinkled and weak. They have hair growing out of their ears, bad posture, no strength, and very little, if any, income-earning years left. So they have nothing to offer women of any age, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

I think you illustrated what I’m saying. Even if people see through my exDH, he still enjoys cordial interactions at work and a career where people treat him with professional respect. His colleagues aren’t exactly calling me and saying “I see your truth.” Meanwhile, I had even my best friends questioning what I might have done for this to happen, did I see it coming, is there an affair. And when I say no to every question, the unspoken thing hanging in the air is that I must have messed up somehow.

TLDR: no one wants to get into the messiness of interacting differently with the DH who walks away or risking their career to give him any kind of social censure, so they give him more politeness than he deserves and the DW bears the social and reputations burden of his behavior. Every time.

Consider that the “unspoken” doubts or chastisement are mostly in your head.

How can you know what others are thinking?

If people are saying out loud that there must have been an affair or you must have seen it coming, that sound pretty spoken, actually. They’re throwing doubt at “didn't see it coming” and suggesting you should have. Which is hurtful and blaming.

They are ASKING if you did, not saying you must have. It is like people who kept asking if I felt sick before I was diagnosed with cancer. That stems from how scary it is to realize that you can be blindsided by life-changing news, which comes with no advance warning.

The question did not mean people doubted my answer. It just means they could rest easier if we lived in a more predictable world. You are the bearer of threatening news. But you need to understand that it does not reflect back on you negatively.

I really think a lot of the judgement you feel is being projected. Try to open your mind to that possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

Based on the number of dads at our private who are in their early or mid 60s with preschoolers, I don’t think 60 magically closes a door for men unless the are poor.

That just means that they could buy a certain type of spouse.

It does not mean they found love, or a mother for their children who has sound values.

Bra size does not correlate with quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

Men are always invisible unless they are rich or handsome.

If that's something you need to believe, OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Okay grasshopper.

My point to you is that the first things sex therapists in training learn is that having a new partner (ie, novelty) often cures sexual dysfunction.

It is not some sign of progress on your part or failure on the part of your ex.

Of course it isn’t a sign of progress, it’s merely showing headspace and frame, I’m happy, I am extremely attracted and there is no baggage or even a whiff of resentment in my relationships. This is how I plan to continue on until I can no longer, like I said I may very well die alone but that’s the trade-off.

I may change my mind someday and I may get my heart smashed, but I’m not going to live in neutral, wondering when I’ll need to defend against the next resentment that is finally voiced 20 years after the fact.

My words will be picked apart endlessly but all I’m saying is that OP’s husband wasn’t happy, I’m sure he tried lots of things to get the marriage back on track but she may not have seen the urgency. Men tend to work on things quietly without stating how important they are, OP either missed or didn’t care about the signals and this is the result.

I mean no disrespect to her or her husband but this probably could’ve been prevented. Hopefully this is just the spark that reunited them with a greater level of mutual curiosity but maybe it won’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Okay grasshopper.

My point to you is that the first things sex therapists in training learn is that having a new partner (ie, novelty) often cures sexual dysfunction.

It is not some sign of progress on your part or failure on the part of your ex.

Of course it isn’t a sign of progress, it’s merely showing headspace and frame, I’m happy, I am extremely attracted and there is no baggage or even a whiff of resentment in my relationships. This is how I plan to continue on until I can no longer, like I said I may very well die alone but that’s the trade-off.

I may change my mind someday and I may get my heart smashed, but I’m not going to live in neutral, wondering when I’ll need to defend against the next resentment that is finally voiced 20 years after the fact.

My words will be picked apart endlessly but all I’m saying is that OP’s husband wasn’t happy, I’m sure he tried lots of things to get the marriage back on track but she may not have seen the urgency. Men tend to work on things quietly without stating how important they are, OP either missed or didn’t care about the signals and this is the result.

I mean no disrespect to her or her husband but this probably could’ve been prevented. Hopefully this is just the spark that reunited them with a greater level of mutual curiosity but maybe it won’t.

Only a man would write this drivel. The husband was biding his time till the last kid was launched to open his own parachute.

[Anonymous]

Alternatively Stud Dad, he did nothing to save the marriage, then more formally gave up and left. In true narc style, he’s doing it to find adoration, supply and happiness elsewhere!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again/ he is a good dad 100%. Also a good person generally speaking, just self absorbed imo and wants a fantasy.

Tell him to take up skydiving until he's had enough adrenaline rushes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Look up the meaning of "agency." You can't control his actions, thoughts or feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again/ he is a good dad 100%. Also a good person generally speaking, just self absorbed imo and wants a fantasy.

So he wants to leave so he can bang younger women? Such a good person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so angry u can barely talk to him

Don’t forgive him, he’s a narcissist. I bet every decision he made over the last 25 years only had to do about him and was for him. He was never a family man or a true father or true husband.

Take time and process this all.

Take the money, talk with the kids- tell the exactly what happened here, then take a 6 month around the world cruise to celebrate and heal.

More psychotic talk. Stop projecting. You don’t know these people. It’s more likely she’s the problem if he filed.

Men file early on if wife is unwell mentally.

Jerk men file gray divorce after the free childcare and housekeeping, to get another young bite at the apple.

And most men don’t marry ever and have children out of wedlock either multiple women. Let’s not forget that 30% contingent!

No man filing a grey divorce wants a new family. He might need to contend with that if he finds a new wife who is in her thirties or something. But usually a man initiating a grey divorce has been done with his wife for legitimate reasons for a long time, especially if she is bitter, angry all the time, is hypercritical or otherwise unpleasant. This goes double if she got fat and/or the bedroom is dead.

This is especially true for good fathers. They stay until the kids are launched and then are ready to live again and they don’t want to spend the rest of their days with a woman who treats them like shit.

So they leave. It’s not that hard to figure out.

No one claims men leave to start a new family, though they often do just that.

They leave because they failed at their marriage with kids, and never wanted to do the work to improve themselves. So hit the Easy Button.

Except, they don't. What's the stat -- 65% to 75% of divorces are initated by women? And among college-educated women, it's 90%? So, your caricature doesn't really square with the data.

A man in that 10% really has to have good reasons and isn't doing it on a whim.

Women generally are more whimsical when it comes to filing. They're more likely to assume the grass is greener and they confuse the man with being the cause of their unhappiness.

You know the old maxim: Men will sacrifice their happiness for their families. Women will sacrifice their families for their happiness.

lol.

False on all accounts and totally backwards.

Thx for playing. Hope you find someone who buys all your BS someday, it seems that’s all you got to offer.

Oh, honey. Bless your heart. Your flippancy isn't an argument and it's not convincing. If all you know how to do is lash out emotionally, it's no wonder someone left you.

DP. Old people on DCUM need to stop saying "Bless your heart". It sounds like black&white movie dialogue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Look up the meaning of "agency." You can't control his actions, thoughts or feelings.

Who said I was trying to control them? I said I was angry. Those are my feelings not his.

[Anonymous]

Looks like this wasn’t a total surprise, OP? You seem more upset that your lifestyle is getting disrupted than distress that the love of your life is leaving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alternatively Stud Dad, he did nothing to save the marriage, then more formally gave up and left. In true narc style, he’s doing it to find adoration, supply and happiness elsewhere!!

I love stud dad!

I tried for years until I came to the painful realization that she was not in love with me and she was no longer attracted to me. I don’t blame her, there had been times where I acted unlovable and unattractive, however nothing I did to alter my patterns of thought and behavior could salvage attraction. I’m not talking sexual attraction, if you have an imagination you can get through sex with anyone I’m talking about real attraction.
She would’ve been quite content with a parallel life, the erratic sex life, conversations no deeper than traffic and logistics, but the gut doesn’t lie, you can tell when someone doesn’t love you anymore. When they’re not interested in you as a person real human attraction is gone,I would bring up therapy, books, plan little getaways and nothing clicked. Exercises that the therapist gave us never happened more than twice, continually showing me that she was not interested.
Watching her act and play a part only to drop the character when the work of acting like she loved me became too hard became an intolerable roller coaster.
Then came the lies and betrayal, I even convinced myself that that it was just a symptom, she really loved me underneath, it was just unresolved father issues or anxiety or whatever thing I found to blame it on.

It took six years and thousands of hours for me to come to the realization that my wife no longer loved me and was not attracted to me, nothing I could do would change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Look up the meaning of "agency." You can't control his actions, thoughts or feelings.

Who said I was trying to control them? I said I was angry. Those are my feelings not his.

Use your anger to get a shark of an attorney and the most aggressive settlementment you can get.