How to forgive spouse for initiating a gray divorce?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Okay grasshopper.

My point to you is that the first things sex therapists in training learn is that having a new partner (ie, novelty) often cures sexual dysfunction.

It is not some sign of progress on your part or failure on the part of your ex.

Of course it isn’t a sign of progress, it’s merely showing headspace and frame, I’m happy, I am extremely attracted and there is no baggage or even a whiff of resentment in my relationships. This is how I plan to continue on until I can no longer, like I said I may very well die alone but that’s the trade-off.

I may change my mind someday and I may get my heart smashed, but I’m not going to live in neutral, wondering when I’ll need to defend against the next resentment that is finally voiced 20 years after the fact.

My words will be picked apart endlessly but all I’m saying is that OP’s husband wasn’t happy, I’m sure he tried lots of things to get the marriage back on track but she may not have seen the urgency. Men tend to work on things quietly without stating how important they are, OP either missed or didn’t care about the signals and this is the result.

I mean no disrespect to her or her husband but this probably could’ve been prevented. Hopefully this is just the spark that reunited them with a greater level of mutual curiosity but maybe it won’t.

Only a man would write this drivel. The husband was biding his time till the last kid was launched to open his own parachute.

If he is anything like me he was waiting for the last kid to leave the nest, but had been unhappy for decades. I still have a couple of years to go before my gray divorce is filed. My wife was a SAHM for most of our marriage and a good mom, but as spouses we had a difficult road. She felt unfulfilled and lonely in perimenopause and her behaviors during that time created the kind of issues that require building a new relationship.

She is aware of my plans and was given the opportunity to do the work necessary to regain my respect and trust, but she has not done the work to become a person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I wanted my kids to have memories of me and stability at home, so I sacrificed my happiness to give them what I think they deserve.

I have not cheated and have no plans to establish a soft landing, but I am really looking forward to being alone for a while to rebuild myself and my relationship with god. Not sure I will ever love another woman, but I have had enough outside interest that I believe my loneliest times will be during my marriage. Marrying her was the worst decision of my life thus far, but being there for my children feels like the best decision I could have made.

Gray divorce isn’t about living without responsibilities for me, it is about reclaiming my self respect and exploring life with renewed passion, peace and purpose. Unfortunately, she destroyed all 4 of those, so I don’t believe her presence would have a positive impact on the process.

I wonder what her side of this touching tale might sound like.

It was different back then vs today. It’s really a sad story for everyone involved. She was depressed and unfulfilled, but didn’t want to admit it to me. I was to blame for her emotional state and since men’s desire for her gave her a momentary dopamine hit. She feels different today, but I have never healed because she would rather forget.

So you don’t know your wife and mother of your three kids is unfulfilled and depressed? Because she didn’t admit it to you?

Yikes.

For her sake I hope you divorce tomorrow.

I wasn’t a mind reader.

Nor a caring person.

Not being able to tell if your wife is unfulfilled and/or depressed actually escalates her depression and unfulfillment. And demonstrates your lack of empathy and care.

And then you got mad at her for how she handled her depression? And at how she didn’t make it up to you later or pass your various tests?

Yes, I have empathy and cared, but liars lie and cheaters cheat. My life was not particularly fulfilling and is even less fulfilling post betrayal. It takes a lot of personal work to build character and become an honest communicator. She isn’t doing that work, she is avoiding it. You are an impressive example of a person without empathy, based upon your posts.

Why don’t you lead all your 1000s of posts here with your SAH wife was depressed & unfulfilled, you didn’t know it, she cheated at some point, you are still together, and you plan divorcing her after she’s done raising the children.

That’s your story. You like to think that it hinges on the cheating part.

So stop inserting bits of it here and there like a mystery event happened or it’s related to the actual OP’s situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what if you reframe this whole situation as seeing that he did you a favor? Men have a shorter lifespan, so if you stayed together, you're statistically more likely to be his caretaker. On the other hand, men often leave or cheat when their wives get sick, so he likely wouldn't have been there for you, anyway. So, in this case, he can go spend his half of the marital assets on younger women for a few years and die alone and poor. And you can take your half of the marital assets and live a responsible life and spend your time with your kids and your friends with no grouchy old man to clean up after, cook for, or run to doctor's appointments. He may seem like he's "winning," but it won't last - men fall off a cliff around 60, and at that point, he'll just be a lonely, grouchy old man, alienated from his family and probably many of his friends. Try to see it as a good thing, because it might be.

What a wonderful fairy tale!

Men are lucky in that they hold on to peak attractiveness and masculinity until about age 50, after which it’s a steady, rapid decline, and this is backed by a wide body of research. It is biological – women drop at 40 when they are past childbearing potential – men drop at 50 when they are no longer masculine and perceived by women as father material. Testosterone declines 1% per year starting at 30. By 60, men are invisible to younger women, and it takes a significant amount of money to overcome the signs of aging that hit around 60, like sarcopenia, hair loss, hearing loss, sun damaged skin including age/liver spots and deep wrinkles, bad breath, bad posture, slower metabolism, plus they have reduced energy, cognitive decline, weird hairs in ears, nose and bushy eyebrows. Instead of masculine provider energy, they give off grumpy, declining old-man who needs a nurse energy.

And be sure to check out the dripping flesh and zero muscle tone of the semiglutides men age 40-60!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Okay grasshopper.

My point to you is that the first things sex therapists in training learn is that having a new partner (ie, novelty) often cures sexual dysfunction.

It is not some sign of progress on your part or failure on the part of your ex.

Of course it isn’t a sign of progress, it’s merely showing headspace and frame, I’m happy, I am extremely attracted and there is no baggage or even a whiff of resentment in my relationships. This is how I plan to continue on until I can no longer, like I said I may very well die alone but that’s the trade-off.

I may change my mind someday and I may get my heart smashed, but I’m not going to live in neutral, wondering when I’ll need to defend against the next resentment that is finally voiced 20 years after the fact.

My words will be picked apart endlessly but all I’m saying is that OP’s husband wasn’t happy, I’m sure he tried lots of things to get the marriage back on track but she may not have seen the urgency. Men tend to work on things quietly without stating how important they are, OP either missed or didn’t care about the signals and this is the result.

I mean no disrespect to her or her husband but this probably could’ve been prevented. Hopefully this is just the spark that reunited them with a greater level of mutual curiosity but maybe it won’t.

Only a man would write this drivel. The husband was biding his time till the last kid was launched to open his own parachute.

If he is anything like me he was waiting for the last kid to leave the nest, but had been unhappy for decades. I still have a couple of years to go before my gray divorce is filed. My wife was a SAHM for most of our marriage and a good mom, but as spouses we had a difficult road. She felt unfulfilled and lonely in perimenopause and her behaviors during that time created the kind of issues that require building a new relationship.

She is aware of my plans and was given the opportunity to do the work necessary to regain my respect and trust, but she has not done the work to become a person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. I wanted my kids to have memories of me and stability at home, so I sacrificed my happiness to give them what I think they deserve.

I have not cheated and have no plans to establish a soft landing, but I am really looking forward to being alone for a while to rebuild myself and my relationship with god. Not sure I will ever love another woman, but I have had enough outside interest that I believe my loneliest times will be during my marriage. Marrying her was the worst decision of my life thus far, but being there for my children feels like the best decision I could have made.

Gray divorce isn’t about living without responsibilities for me, it is about reclaiming my self respect and exploring life with renewed passion, peace and purpose. Unfortunately, she destroyed all 4 of those, so I don’t believe her presence would have a positive impact on the process.

I wonder what her side of this touching tale might sound like.

It was different back then vs today. It’s really a sad story for everyone involved. She was depressed and unfulfilled, but didn’t want to admit it to me. I was to blame for her emotional state and since men’s desire for her gave her a momentary dopamine hit. She feels different today, but I have never healed because she would rather forget.

So you don’t know your wife and mother of your three kids is unfulfilled and depressed? Because she didn’t admit it to you?

Yikes.

For her sake I hope you divorce tomorrow.

I wasn’t a mind reader.

Nor a caring person.

Not being able to tell if your wife is unfulfilled and/or depressed actually escalates her depression and unfulfillment. And demonstrates your lack of empathy and care.

And then you got mad at her for how she handled her depression? And at how she didn’t make it up to you later or pass your various tests?

Yes, I have empathy and cared, but liars lie and cheaters cheat. My life was not particularly fulfilling and is even less fulfilling post betrayal. It takes a lot of personal work to build character and become an honest communicator. She isn’t doing that work, she is avoiding it. You are an impressive example of a person without empathy, based upon your posts.

Why don’t you lead all your 1000s of posts here with your SAH wife was depressed & unfulfilled, you didn’t know it, she cheated at some point, you are still together, and you plan divorcing her after she’s done raising the children.

That’s your story. You like to think that it hinges on the cheating part.

So stop inserting bits of it here and there like a mystery event happened or it’s related to the actual OP’s situation.

We have more than the 3 kids you mentioned previously, so I think I just have a similar story to other unlucky men. Enjoy your passionate misandrist vibes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what if you reframe this whole situation as seeing that he did you a favor? Men have a shorter lifespan, so if you stayed together, you're statistically more likely to be his caretaker. On the other hand, men often leave or cheat when their wives get sick, so he likely wouldn't have been there for you, anyway. So, in this case, he can go spend his half of the marital assets on younger women for a few years and die alone and poor. And you can take your half of the marital assets and live a responsible life and spend your time with your kids and your friends with no grouchy old man to clean up after, cook for, or run to doctor's appointments. He may seem like he's "winning," but it won't last - men fall off a cliff around 60, and at that point, he'll just be a lonely, grouchy old man, alienated from his family and probably many of his friends. Try to see it as a good thing, because it might be.

What a wonderful fairy tale!

Men are lucky in that they hold on to peak attractiveness and masculinity until about age 50, after which it’s a steady, rapid decline, and this is backed by a wide body of research. It is biological – women drop at 40 when they are past childbearing potential – men drop at 50 when they are no longer masculine and perceived by women as father material. Testosterone declines 1% per year starting at 30. By 60, men are invisible to younger women, and it takes a significant amount of money to overcome the signs of aging that hit around 60, like sarcopenia, hair loss, hearing loss, sun damaged skin including age/liver spots and deep wrinkles, bad breath, bad posture, slower metabolism, plus they have reduced energy, cognitive decline, weird hairs in ears, nose and bushy eyebrows. Instead of masculine provider energy, they give off grumpy, declining old-man who needs a nurse energy.

Yup. Look at your married friends at 30/40 and they are likely equally attractive. When they are 50, then men almost always look better. But go to 60, and definitely by 70, the women look better. By the time you get to 80, the women are often these sprightly little power houses and then men are falling apart. (I’m generalizing but it’s really common.). By 90 or 100, it sort of evens out again because the guys that make it that long are atypical.

[Anonymous]

I see really well-groomed and put together older men and I can’t tell if the woman across the table from them is their wife or their mother. I also see couples where the husband and wife both look the same age. However, I rarely see couples where the wife looks younger and better than the husband unless the husband is ultra-wealthy. I believe in some cases where the wife looks better and younger, they are younger by nine or ten years. People are usually not aware of the age difference unless they are super close to the couple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Initiating a grey divorce was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I don't know your and your spouse's situation of course.

It's easy when you have money. Maybe Op is middle class. Divorce is economically catastrophic for the middle class whether grey or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s telling that you are refusing to accept his agency in your relationship…

What do you mean? I understand he needs to be happy but I’m still pissed since I sacrificied a lot.

Men don't care. And the sad part regardless of his age and character more than one women will line up to marry him especially if he has money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so angry u can barely talk to him

Don’t forgive him, he’s a narcissist. I bet every decision he made over the last 25 years only had to do about him and was for him. He was never a family man or a true father or true husband.

Take time and process this all.

Take the money, talk with the kids- tell the exactly what happened here, then take a 6 month around the world cruise to celebrate and heal.

You must be very bitter with your divorce that giving same advice and making same assumption about everyone. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to forgive him.

Forgive yourself for being mad. It's understandable you're mad. Let yourself feel your anger, talk to someone about it (therapist, friend, someone) but release yourself from it.

Someone once did something really awful to me and they never apologized or even took responsibility for it. For a long time I kept telling myself I had to forgive them (partly because other people kept telling me I'd never move on if I didn't forgive them). But I couldn't! How can you forgive someone who isn't even sorry for the harm they caused?

But then one day I decided to just accept that I couldn't forgive them, and I decided it was fine, and that gave me the release I needed to move on. Some people suck. You don't have to let them off the hook (they can figure that out themselves) but you can let yourself off the hook.

Wishing you peace, OP.

Many if not most gray divorces are initiated by women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see really well-groomed and put together older men and I can’t tell if the woman across the table from them is their wife or their mother. I also see couples where the husband and wife both look the same age. However, I rarely see couples where the wife looks younger and better than the husband unless the husband is ultra-wealthy. I believe in some cases where the wife looks better and younger, they are younger by nine or ten years. People are usually not aware of the age difference unless they are super close to the couple.

Where are you? I'm in NW DC and see tons of old men with wrinkled skin and potbellies at restaurants with women who look a little to A LOT younger. The women are usually pretty slim and their faces look younger. Could be because in these areas women have the time and money to go to have personal trainers and go to med spas.

[Anonymous]

You do not own the person, if they want out, they want out. You don't have to forgive them, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to forgive him.

Forgive yourself for being mad. It's understandable you're mad. Let yourself feel your anger, talk to someone about it (therapist, friend, someone) but release yourself from it.

Someone once did something really awful to me and they never apologized or even took responsibility for it. For a long time I kept telling myself I had to forgive them (partly because other people kept telling me I'd never move on if I didn't forgive them). But I couldn't! How can you forgive someone who isn't even sorry for the harm they caused?

But then one day I decided to just accept that I couldn't forgive them, and I decided it was fine, and that gave me the release I needed to move on. Some people suck. You don't have to let them off the hook (they can figure that out themselves) but you can let yourself off the hook.

Wishing you peace, OP.

Many if not most gray divorces are initiated by women

Agree! because by this age the men are way too accustomed to having and eating the cake and dont want to leave the comfort that the home provides.

Signed-one of those women who initiated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to forgive him.

Forgive yourself for being mad. It's understandable you're mad. Let yourself feel your anger, talk to someone about it (therapist, friend, someone) but release yourself from it.

Someone once did something really awful to me and they never apologized or even took responsibility for it. For a long time I kept telling myself I had to forgive them (partly because other people kept telling me I'd never move on if I didn't forgive them). But I couldn't! How can you forgive someone who isn't even sorry for the harm they caused?

But then one day I decided to just accept that I couldn't forgive them, and I decided it was fine, and that gave me the release I needed to move on. Some people suck. You don't have to let them off the hook (they can figure that out themselves) but you can let yourself off the hook.

Wishing you peace, OP.

Many if not most gray divorces are initiated by women

Agree! because by this age the men are way too accustomed to having and eating the cake and dont want to leave the comfort that the home provides.

Signed-one of those women who initiated

So the conventional wisdom around these parts: When a man initiates a gray divorce, he must be a jerk and the woman is right to be angry. When the woman initiates a gray divorce, the woman is justified because the guy must be a jerk. Very sound logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to forgive him.

Forgive yourself for being mad. It's understandable you're mad. Let yourself feel your anger, talk to someone about it (therapist, friend, someone) but release yourself from it.

Someone once did something really awful to me and they never apologized or even took responsibility for it. For a long time I kept telling myself I had to forgive them (partly because other people kept telling me I'd never move on if I didn't forgive them). But I couldn't! How can you forgive someone who isn't even sorry for the harm they caused?

But then one day I decided to just accept that I couldn't forgive them, and I decided it was fine, and that gave me the release I needed to move on. Some people suck. You don't have to let them off the hook (they can figure that out themselves) but you can let yourself off the hook.

Wishing you peace, OP.

Many if not most gray divorces are initiated by women

Agree! because by this age the men are way too accustomed to having and eating the cake and dont want to leave the comfort that the home provides.

Signed-one of those women who initiated

So the conventional wisdom around these parts: When a man initiates a gray divorce, he must be a jerk and the woman is right to be angry. When the woman initiates a gray divorce, the woman is justified because the guy must be a jerk. Very sound logic.

Welcome to the forum!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Focus on your exit and next chapter

This. Start therapy so you have a safe place to vent (not your kids) and decide what’s important for these next years! Good luck!