How to forgive spouse for initiating a gray divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone’s daughters are watching this play out too.
Absentee dad, exits stage left at high school graduation, buys a Porsche, dates a bunch of soulmates in rapid succession, spends down and gives away his money. Good stuff.

They should watch and learn that a man is not a plan. Young women should never assume that their marriage will last forever or that it won't happen to them, and they should only marry someone who will be an equal partner in all things so that if they do divorce, they'll have a career and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

At least we don’t have to buy our partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

I think you illustrated what I’m saying. Even if people see through my exDH, he still enjoys cordial interactions at work and a career where people treat him with professional respect. His colleagues aren’t exactly calling me and saying “I see your truth.” Meanwhile, I had even my best friends questioning what I might have done for this to happen, did I see it coming, is there an affair. And when I say no to every question, the unspoken thing hanging in the air is that I must have messed up somehow.

TLDR: no one wants to get into the messiness of interacting differently with the DH who walks away or risking their career to give him any kind of social censure, so they give him more politeness than he deserves and the DW bears the social and reputations burden of his behavior. Every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Makes sense. I'm a woman, and I'm ready to live this way, too. I'm not making any more sacrifices for DH's "career" - mine comes first now; I'm also spending our money on myself. He's going to leave me someday anyway, right? So, I'm chasing joy for now on, spending money on a personal trainer, a great personal stylist, and a wardrobe, and hiding assets for the future when he does leave me. Men are mostly like PP in that they are selfish and narcissistic - women who think otherwise end up sad and depressed like OP. I think all women should do a better job putting themselves first in marriage and be better prepared for divorce.

Except ... women initiate the divorces. We've already established that.

So, basically, you sound like a selfish twat who is planning to leave her husband. Because, again, men sacrifice their happiness for their families but women are very quick to sacrifice their families for their happiness. And then ... most of them wonder why they're still unhappy.

Hiding assets will come back to bite you in the ass, btw. Discovery in a divorce is expensive and painful.

There you go again with your fake maxim. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Makes sense. I'm a woman, and I'm ready to live this way, too. I'm not making any more sacrifices for DH's "career" - mine comes first now; I'm also spending our money on myself. He's going to leave me someday anyway, right? So, I'm chasing joy for now on, spending money on a personal trainer, a great personal stylist, and a wardrobe, and hiding assets for the future when he does leave me. Men are mostly like PP in that they are selfish and narcissistic - women who think otherwise end up sad and depressed like OP. I think all women should do a better job putting themselves first in marriage and be better prepared for divorce.

Yes, a woman post with the exact same writing style as the Not a Stud guy, saying the exact same thing. Who would have thought?!

LOL. I'm PP and not the "Not a Stud guy", but I have enough of men like him in my life to know that men are more like him than not. Live your life accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

Never heard about nor saw this fake assumption you keep harping about in this thread, under different personas.
Nope.

This was my first post on this thread. Jeff can check IPs.

I have 6 IPs here between all my devices, WiFi or data. Shall we check with Jeff?! So cool; sounds like a good use of time for a troll.

6 IPs?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

I think you illustrated what I’m saying. Even if people see through my exDH, he still enjoys cordial interactions at work and a career where people treat him with professional respect. His colleagues aren’t exactly calling me and saying “I see your truth.” Meanwhile, I had even my best friends questioning what I might have done for this to happen, did I see it coming, is there an affair. And when I say no to every question, the unspoken thing hanging in the air is that I must have messed up somehow.

TLDR: no one wants to get into the messiness of interacting differently with the DH who walks away or risking their career to give him any kind of social censure, so they give him more politeness than he deserves and the DW bears the social and reputations burden of his behavior. Every time.

Consider that the “unspoken” doubts or chastisement are mostly in your head.

How can you know what others are thinking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

At least we don’t have to buy our partners.

No, you just buy cats. And the affection of your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

True

But really everyone is out for fun, shallow things, Unf sans condoms. Get your shots!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

I think you illustrated what I’m saying. Even if people see through my exDH, he still enjoys cordial interactions at work and a career where people treat him with professional respect. His colleagues aren’t exactly calling me and saying “I see your truth.” Meanwhile, I had even my best friends questioning what I might have done for this to happen, did I see it coming, is there an affair. And when I say no to every question, the unspoken thing hanging in the air is that I must have messed up somehow.

TLDR: no one wants to get into the messiness of interacting differently with the DH who walks away or risking their career to give him any kind of social censure, so they give him more politeness than he deserves and the DW bears the social and reputations burden of his behavior. Every time.

Consider that the “unspoken” doubts or chastisement are mostly in your head.

How can you know what others are thinking?

If people are saying out loud that there must have been an affair or you must have seen it coming, that sound pretty spoken, actually. They’re throwing doubt at “didn't see it coming” and suggesting you should have. Which is hurtful and blaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

Based on the number of dads at our private who are in their early or mid 60s with preschoolers, I don’t think 60 magically closes a door for men unless the are poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your soon to be exdh? Is there enough money for retirement? Reasons for the gray divorce?
The answers to these questions has implications for whether forgiveness is possible.

53, 3 kids 18,20,22
Financial issues and not enough for retirement but not dire.
He wants more passion and feels we have grown apart.

Yeah, “passion”. If he isn’t already cheating he has prospects lined up.

HAHAHAHA. How many prospects does a pathetic mid-50s guy have?

Lots of them, I fit your description and life has been great since separation. Bonus was discovering I didn’t need cialis like I did when I was married !

Guess what. If you stay with the same partner long enough you will. It is human biology.

But pretend you are some victorious stud if that image makes you feel better.

Others have more lofty personal ambitions.

Not a stud, this isn’t about conquest. This is about a man leading an examined life, realizing where his limitations are, conveying them to his partners and living purely for the pursuit of joy. I did the hard years now I’m gonna do the fun ones.
I have a good relationship with my children, their mother and I have treated each other fairly and respectfully, I harbor no ill will and have happily stepped in a number of times as she’s needed me.
I may very well die alone, but I will not die hungry for life.

Makes sense. I'm a woman, and I'm ready to live this way, too. I'm not making any more sacrifices for DH's "career" - mine comes first now; I'm also spending our money on myself. He's going to leave me someday anyway, right? So, I'm chasing joy for now on, spending money on a personal trainer, a great personal stylist, and a wardrobe, and hiding assets for the future when he does leave me. Men are mostly like PP in that they are selfish and narcissistic - women who think otherwise end up sad and depressed like OP. I think all women should do a better job putting themselves first in marriage and be better prepared for divorce.

I think this is pretty common practice these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming the couple is college educated, this situation is an outlier.

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20nearly%2070%20percent,number%20jumps%20up%20to%2090%25.

Maybe she’s mad partly because he flipped the script, and people will assume there must be something toxic about her for her husband to push the eject button, since “everybody” knows college-educated men rarely initiate divorces.

I’m a woman in this situation and I am indeed angry because my mentally ill exDH who initiated a nearly-gray divorce was a pretty awful person and I was staying in our marriage to be the human shield for our kids. Now exDH is benefiting from the “she must be crazy because no college-educated women get a divorce initiated against them” assumption and he has shifted to picking on the kids, relentlessly.

OP, people are going to make nasty assumptions. I think what I mourn more than the money or my sacrificed opportunity (but never more than our kids’ childhoods) is how exDH “stole” my reputation. My close friends and a few surprising acquaintances remained supportive, but I still feel diminished by how being the woman who was left and the “she must have been psycho” script has affected others’ perception of me.

PP, rest assured that most women and many men tend to see people and things for who they are. If your exDH is truly as toxic as you say, other people see it, and either empathize with what you must have put up with, or are quietly rooting for your happiness. A good friend of mine was left by her very professionally successful husband (with three young kids, one who was an infant). He and I still work together and are cordial. We say hi and I ask about the kids. But I know the back story of what happened and this guy is a monster. We keep it moving in the workplace because there's no room for drama but trust, everyone knows what's up. Keep your head up.

I think you illustrated what I’m saying. Even if people see through my exDH, he still enjoys cordial interactions at work and a career where people treat him with professional respect. His colleagues aren’t exactly calling me and saying “I see your truth.” Meanwhile, I had even my best friends questioning what I might have done for this to happen, did I see it coming, is there an affair. And when I say no to every question, the unspoken thing hanging in the air is that I must have messed up somehow.

TLDR: no one wants to get into the messiness of interacting differently with the DH who walks away or risking their career to give him any kind of social censure, so they give him more politeness than he deserves and the DW bears the social and reputations burden of his behavior. Every time.

You have no idea how people are treating him. None. And I doubt any of your colleagues are calling him and saying “I see your truth.” (Seriously?!?!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think grey divorce is more often initiated by women? I mean, once the kids are raised and off to college, they can walk away with half the marital assets, drop their adult man-child, and finally live for themselves. Casual dating is generally easier for women than men at any age, provided a woman is fit and takes care of herself.

Dating is much easier for men in their fifties than it is for women. Women in their fifties are invisible.

How is dating for men in their sixties? Is that their invisibility threshold?

Men are always invisible unless they are rich or handsome.