So are we to never have a husband-wife trip without kids for another 14 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We got away usually at least once a year without our kids even when they were really little. Grandparents were never an option for us but:
- We had a nanny with whom we could leave the kids for short periods, and once we left for 6 days when they were about 2 (twins). An expensive solution but well worth it.
- My best friend, and their godmother, begged to have them to herself - so every summer we left them with her for 3-5 days.
- Now the kids are 13. Last year they did two weeks of sleepaway camp and this year they will do the same. This year we will take a parents only trip while they're away, designating a local close friend as an emergency contact in case something happens.

Similar to this, also with twins. Our nanny would stay with them, they went to sleepaway camp starting at 7 (only a week then, they wanted to go), and they have also stayed with friends for the weekend (we regularly do this with our friends' kids as well). Parents and in-laws have not been a source of support for us so we have relied on others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Our parents were either not capable, not interested or not alive to ever watch our kids. Both of our siblings live across country so “getting away” was not a easy option..

When kids were 3 and 5 our nanny watched them for an overnight.

When they were 11 and 13 my sibling stayed for 3 nights, he barely did anything (forgot meds, classes etc) but the kids were alive. Still we decided that wasn’t going to work going forward.

This year, our kids (now 13 and 15) will go to sleep away camp and we will take a week somewhere.

We do family trips and when the kids were younger some all inclusive switch kids clubs. This is a choice we made to be parents so we dealt with it but I was at times envious of people who had active and involved grandparents (the ones I had who were capable are selfish and uninterested and the one who loved my kids was not capable and now has severe dementia and we care for her).

If I’m able to be an active grandparent I will be. And if I’m not I’ll try to help financially so that my kids can hire help if needed.


There is no reason to add the "but": you didn't consult any of your relatives on the timing of your becoming a parent, on how many kids to have, on the values you communicate to your kids, so any contempt, even miniscule toward relatives is unwarranted.

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

[Anonymous]

So are we to never have a husband-wife trip without kids for another 14 years?

You are not. Maybe an overnight. That's how is was for DH and I. But for my parents, they found a sitter (all the sitter had to be was a semi-competent adult) and my parents traveled, for as long as two weeks. We wouldn't have been driven to ECs. We ate what the school fed us. We weren't catered to the way kids/teens are. Also once there was a 16 yr old in the house who could drive, parents also left us for trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You got 2 young kids and you want your wife to up and go on a trip with you? Look at it from her perspective - neither of you will have an opportunity to spend time with your young children for much longer. Sorry if your penis isn't the most interesting thing in the world to her anymore, lol.

I get the feeling though. My wife and I 'date' during the work week where MIL can come over to the house, heat up some prepared dinner, and let the kids play. We get some alone time, wife doesn't feel like we've overburdened her mother, and it's a good time really.

DW here. Seems reasonable to me. I find it bizarre how MC and UMC women completely give up their lives when kids arrive. It’s a complete 180 that isn’t healthy.

Going away and spending a few days focused on your spouse and resting is very normal and healthy. Anyone telling you otherwise has anxiety and way too much focus on their children.

It’s ironic but mothers who can’t leave their children for a weekend tend to end up very bath mothers to older children.

So much judgement in your post.

She's not wrong.

Yeah, mothers who don't want to burden their own elderly mothers so husband can get some action, while the dude pouts on the internet instead of offering solutions, are bad. Or something.

Yea that must mean you are a terrible parent to older children. I laughed out loud reading that part.

A woman who can’t prioritize leaving her kids for the weekend to spend time with her spouse will absolutely struggle with teens who develop their own identity and need their mom less. A mom like this has lived for her kids for more than a decade and it is a huge change that usually doesn’t go over well. If you already have your own social life and hobbies outside of kids it’s less of a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since being a father is already such an inconvenience to you, maybe just get an AP and go on overnights with her? Problem solved.

Perfect example of how messed up modern parenting is. Wanting to go away with only your spouse means your completely inconvenience by parenting and should even cheat on your DW.

Personally I think the people who can’t go on a childfree vacation are the messed up ones!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Our parents were either not capable, not interested or not alive to ever watch our kids. Both of our siblings live across country so “getting away” was not a easy option..

When kids were 3 and 5 our nanny watched them for an overnight.

When they were 11 and 13 my sibling stayed for 3 nights, he barely did anything (forgot meds, classes etc) but the kids were alive. Still we decided that wasn’t going to work going forward.

This year, our kids (now 13 and 15) will go to sleep away camp and we will take a week somewhere.

We do family trips and when the kids were younger some all inclusive switch kids clubs. This is a choice we made to be parents so we dealt with it but I was at times envious of people who had active and involved grandparents (the ones I had who were capable are selfish and uninterested and the one who loved my kids was not capable and now has severe dementia and we care for her).

If I’m able to be an active grandparent I will be. And if I’m not I’ll try to help financially so that my kids can hire help if needed.


There is no reason to add the "but": you didn't consult any of your relatives on the timing of your becoming a parent, on how many kids to have, on the values you communicate to your kids, so any contempt, even miniscule toward relatives is unwarranted.

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

Sorry, can't guilt trip about this. Other adults had no say in your timing of parenting, how many kids you chose to have, where you choose to live, what kind of house you buy, what kind of job you take to pay for your lifestyle. Other adults are just observers. You don't want their commentary in this area, but want their help? That is a special kind of bandage--running around "helping" with no input.

Other adults can help you, but consider it a nice to have, not a requirement. You live your life, why can't they make choices with their lives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You got 2 young kids and you want your wife to up and go on a trip with you? Look at it from her perspective - neither of you will have an opportunity to spend time with your young children for much longer. Sorry if your penis isn't the most interesting thing in the world to her anymore, lol.

I get the feeling though. My wife and I 'date' during the work week where MIL can come over to the house, heat up some prepared dinner, and let the kids play. We get some alone time, wife doesn't feel like we've overburdened her mother, and it's a good time really.

DW here. Seems reasonable to me. I find it bizarre how MC and UMC women completely give up their lives when kids arrive. It’s a complete 180 that isn’t healthy.

Going away and spending a few days focused on your spouse and resting is very normal and healthy. Anyone telling you otherwise has anxiety and way too much focus on their children.

It’s ironic but mothers who can’t leave their children for a weekend tend to end up very bath mothers to older children.

So much judgement in your post.

She's not wrong.

Yeah, mothers who don't want to burden their own elderly mothers so husband can get some action, while the dude pouts on the internet instead of offering solutions, are bad. Or something.

Yea that must mean you are a terrible parent to older children. I laughed out loud reading that part.

A woman who can’t prioritize leaving her kids for the weekend to spend time with her spouse will absolutely struggle with teens who develop their own identity and need their mom less. A mom like this has lived for her kids for more than a decade and it is a huge change that usually doesn’t go over well. If you already have your own social life and hobbies outside of kids it’s less of a problem.

Your post is illogical. None of the thoughts flow from one another. You have conflated so many things to one 1 idea: no social life, no hobbies, lives
for kids from the one thing: won’t leave kids for a weekend when young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

I sense quite a bit of one-sidedness in your response. I would be willing to bet that your father might have a different take. And your stepmother quite another.

Why do you have the expectation that they should fund your family's trips? Why do you think there is something wrong if they choose to travel? Or have a second home? Didn't they work for that?

It is interesting that you state your father has "spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants." Perhaps that's true. But IMO it also sounds like something you were coached to believe. It is interesting that your focus on failing is solely on your father. Is it possible that they can feel the contempt you have for them? It is barely concealed in your post - I imagine your words, actions and body language also communicate that.

Is your mother still alive? Is she doing all the things you believe a grandmother can do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You got 2 young kids and you want your wife to up and go on a trip with you? Look at it from her perspective - neither of you will have an opportunity to spend time with your young children for much longer. Sorry if your penis isn't the most interesting thing in the world to her anymore, lol.

I get the feeling though. My wife and I 'date' during the work week where MIL can come over to the house, heat up some prepared dinner, and let the kids play. We get some alone time, wife doesn't feel like we've overburdened her mother, and it's a good time really.

DW here. Seems reasonable to me. I find it bizarre how MC and UMC women completely give up their lives when kids arrive. It’s a complete 180 that isn’t healthy.

Going away and spending a few days focused on your spouse and resting is very normal and healthy. Anyone telling you otherwise has anxiety and way too much focus on their children.

It’s ironic but mothers who can’t leave their children for a weekend tend to end up very bath mothers to older children.

So much judgement in your post.

She's not wrong.

Yeah, mothers who don't want to burden their own elderly mothers so husband can get some action, while the dude pouts on the internet instead of offering solutions, are bad. Or something.

Yea that must mean you are a terrible parent to older children. I laughed out loud reading that part.

A woman who can’t prioritize leaving her kids for the weekend to spend time with her spouse will absolutely struggle with teens who develop their own identity and need their mom less. A mom like this has lived for her kids for more than a decade and it is a huge change that usually doesn’t go over well. If you already have your own social life and hobbies outside of kids it’s less of a problem.

Your post is illogical. None of the thoughts flow from one another. You have conflated so many things to one 1 idea: no social life, no hobbies, lives
for kids from the one thing: won’t leave kids for a weekend when young.

+1

We have an active social life/hobbies and always used a sitter once/wk at the very minimum (our kids no longer need sitters). We both have hobbies and do things on our own or with friends at least weekly as well. We don’t live for “ooh one special parent trip per year” - we work in time together and social time/hobbies into our regular daily life. We actually like our life and don’t need to escape from it. We also like our kids- and because we get regular breaks all the time- don’t feel a need to escape from them for a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

I sense quite a bit of one-sidedness in your response. I would be willing to bet that your father might have a different take. And your stepmother quite another.

Why do you have the expectation that they should fund your family's trips? Why do you think there is something wrong if they choose to travel? Or have a second home? Didn't they work for that?

It is interesting that you state your father has "spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants." Perhaps that's true. But IMO it also sounds like something you were coached to believe. It is interesting that your focus on failing is solely on your father. Is it possible that they can feel the contempt you have for them? It is barely concealed in your post - I imagine your words, actions and body language also communicate that.

Is your mother still alive? Is she doing all the things you believe a grandmother can do?

+1

From the father and step mother's perspective, it must be frustrating and exasperating to have someone demanding "love me and my kids" while showing contempt at the same time.

[Anonymous]

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

I sense quite a bit of one-sidedness in your response. I would be willing to bet that your father might have a different take. And your stepmother quite another.

Why do you have the expectation that they should fund your family's trips? Why do you think there is something wrong if they choose to travel? Or have a second home? Didn't they work for that?

It is interesting that you state your father has "spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants." Perhaps that's true. But IMO it also sounds like something you were coached to believe. It is interesting that your focus on failing is solely on your father. Is it possible that they can feel the contempt you have for them? It is barely concealed in your post - I imagine your words, actions and body language also communicate that.

Is your mother still alive? Is she doing all the things you believe a grandmother can do?

+1

From the father and step mother's perspective, it must be frustrating and exasperating to have someone demanding "love me and my kids" while showing contempt at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I haven’t had a trip just the two of us for 19 years! I do know lots of peol that send their kids to sleep away camp at 8 and then travel then. My youngest refuses to do sleep away camp so that never worked for us. I know someone else that says their nanny for this. I never wanted to do that.

But it’s really no big deal. Here are many solutions:
Go on a cruise or to a resort with kids clubs. I remember the first time we took a cruise and I took the kids to the kids club. My spouse was going to take a nap or something and I was like “let me be clear. The kids are all gone at this moment. If you want to have sex, now is the moment.” That had not occurred to him.
Get connecting rooms (Hilton!) or a two bedroom suite and put the kids on the other room.
Take your elderly MiL or mother on the trip and put the kids in the room with her. This also works really well if you want to be able to do things like have a fancy dinner with just the two of you, do something llle rock climbing, or go out to a late night show/dancing whatever. The key is to pay all expenses for MIL for trip — she will be happy to watch the kids while you go out!

Clearly your children run your life. You think your young child is in charge of if he attends sleep away camp!

Ignoring this, going away with your spouse provides just the couple to focus on each other for an extended period of time without interruptions. In a way that a separate hotel room at the Hilton does not. If you don’t understand the difference then you never will even with someone explaining to you why.

Well, you clearly don’t know me because I am famously inattentive to my kids. But the youngest has a lot of sleep issues and really really does not want to sleep in a large grouping (can’t sleep at all with sleepovers) so I’m not going to force her to do a week or two of misery just so I can take a vacation without her. Starting at 16 let my kids stay home by themselves for up to a week, which I know a lot of people here won’t do. My older kids have done sleep away camp and it’s fine for them. I really don’t understand what the issue is with traveling with your kids. Put them in a separate hotel room and send to a kids club for part of the day if you need a break from them. But I also work like 50-60 hours a week and travel for work so I feel like o get plenty of breaks from my kids. Plus, you know, at some point, you get a permanent break from your kids. In another couple of years, it will be nothing but breaks from my kids!

If you really need to get away just with your spouse that’s fine, and for an additional price you can do that. But I find it weird to act like this is an absolute essential for a marriage. My parents have been married for over 70 years and I think the first time they got away for a vacation without any kids was for their 55th birthday, at which point they’d been married for 22 years. Throughout the course of human history, the vast majority of married couples have been able to make it work without someone to watch their kids while they jet off to a beach resort.

[Anonymous]

Do share what you end up doing..hiring help or well waiting 183737 years..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You’re responding to me and I disagree. I am disappointed in one of my parents who has spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants. He and his wife (my stepmom who does not have kids if her own) travel 5-10x/year for pleasure, own multiple homes, and could easily have visited us at any time. Or invited us on any of the many fancy trips they take. They have traveled to see us once in 15 years (after kids 1 was born for 2 days) and instead expect us to visit them at their convenience, which means traveling across the country and staying in a hotel because they don’t want us messing up their homes. They expect us to zoom with them at their schedule but never ours. They like the trappings of being a grandparent but do nothing to foster an emotional connection. I never expected them to take on the labor of caring for my kids, but I expected them to have some interest. They do not ,but expect us to show up for command performances (my dad’s bdays). I am really over it and I do have some contempt for how self absorbed they are and how limited emotionally and I am envious of people whose parents are loving and involved grandparents. I do not think that I needed to ask permission of my parents to have children and I get that there’s this dcum “expect nothing from others” attitude (which is a weird emotional variant on pull yourself up by the bootstraps) . I can still be disappointed by what a self involved parent and now grandparent I have and I also see that this is truly not the norm among my friends who have parents who actually enjoy being grandparents. It’s instilled in me the desire to be a loving and involved grandparent should I have the chance. You know, call on birthdays, visit, go to their plays, be interested in their lives and try to help adult children who are juggling it all.

I sense quite a bit of one-sidedness in your response. I would be willing to bet that your father might have a different take. And your stepmother quite another.

Why do you have the expectation that they should fund your family's trips? Why do you think there is something wrong if they choose to travel? Or have a second home? Didn't they work for that?

It is interesting that you state your father has "spent most of his adult life focused solely on his needs and wants." Perhaps that's true. But IMO it also sounds like something you were coached to believe. It is interesting that your focus on failing is solely on your father. Is it possible that they can feel the contempt you have for them? It is barely concealed in your post - I imagine your words, actions and body language also communicate that.

Is your mother still alive? Is she doing all the things you believe a grandmother can do?

+1

From the father and step mother's perspective, it must be frustrating and exasperating to have someone demanding "love me and my kids" while showing contempt at the same time.

Wow. That’s a different take. Agree that contempt rarely helps a situation but I read her story and assumed that the contempt was a result of her father’s choice to only be involved in performative aspects of grandparenting. Though I was confused why she was apparently still marching to the beat of his drum as a grown adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Couple of things:

I have an almost 16 year old, and I would not take a trip and leave them home alone. 16 seems like an adult when you have tiny kids: 16 is NOT an adult.

Nonsense. We have left my 16 yo alone for weekends without any issue. 16 is pretty much an adult- depending on the child, of course.

❤️