If your kid walked out of visitation, how would a judge see that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week, my kids' dad did some things that really pissed my teenager off. Based on what happened, I think his anger is pretty understandable.

Teen has announced his intention to walk out of visitation tomorrow.

I currently have temporary physical custody, but our permanent custody hearing is approaching. I am worried that this will look badly in court. That I'll be accused of alienation (something that is not happening). I think if I tell him that doing so increases the chances that he has to see his dad more than he does now, he'll back down and make some other plan.

What do people think?

I think it is your responsibility to deliver the kid to the appointed time/place where visitation occurs. After dropoff, all responsibility is with dad. If your kid is upset with something dad did, it's the father's responsibility to discuss it with the kid and sort it out. You can no longer mediate their relationship. It's up to the dad. Don't encourage son to walk out; encourage him to discuss with dad whatever is bothering him. Each of you will now have your own relationship with the child, and none of you is responsible for sorting out the relationship between the child and the other parent.

I'm not encouraging him to do anything. I was asking whether I needed to actively discourage this idea. In the end I told him I wasn't sure and that was enough and he chose to do something different.

My kids need to figure out how to have a relationship with him. I can't advise them on how to do that, given that I clearly failed at that task. And he needs to figure out how to have a relationship with them. Part of that might be getting feedback from them when he's really messed up, and bringing his anger at me into my children's home was a mistake.

In order for them to have a healthy relationship you need to support it. Of course its a bad idea to encourage that behavior and if you encourage it to happen to dad they will think its ok to do it to you. Your relationship with him is separate from his and the kids and you need to be appropriate and keep boundaries. Your kids are not your friends. Having them give feedback to complain about him to stop visitation speaks volumes.

Shockingly, I thought that a locked door was a boundary. I'm not sure how it's my fault that that boundary wasn't kept.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the bolded. When I mentioned feedback, I meant that telling his Dad "right now I don't want to be with you" is feedback to Dad that what Dad did hurt the kids.

You need to separate your relationship with him with the kids relationship with him. Clearly you don't want visits so stop the drama and visits already. Simple. Its not ok for a child to speak to their parent like that and your encouraging this behavior is part of the issue. You clearly cannot see your role in this so its best to terminate the relationship as this is only going to end badly for the kids if you continue down this path.

You are right. You are an amazing mom and parent and he is a horrible father who doesn't deserve his kids.... so, enough already. Stop with the games and just move on.

[Anonymous]

Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

How about women who don't value men in raising their children and women who don't think men should be equal parents. How about the fact Dad should have equal custody and not just visitation. And, how about having some kind of accountability for child support.

OP does not want Dad to have visitation and is clear she will sabotage it. She is only hurting her kids. Especially if she's raising boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week, my kids' dad did some things that really pissed my teenager off. Based on what happened, I think his anger is pretty understandable.

Teen has announced his intention to walk out of visitation tomorrow.

I currently have temporary physical custody, but our permanent custody hearing is approaching. I am worried that this will look badly in court. That I'll be accused of alienation (something that is not happening). I think if I tell him that doing so increases the chances that he has to see his dad more than he does now, he'll back down and make some other plan.

What do people think?

I think it is your responsibility to deliver the kid to the appointed time/place where visitation occurs. After dropoff, all responsibility is with dad. If your kid is upset with something dad did, it's the father's responsibility to discuss it with the kid and sort it out. You can no longer mediate their relationship. It's up to the dad. Don't encourage son to walk out; encourage him to discuss with dad whatever is bothering him. Each of you will now have your own relationship with the child, and none of you is responsible for sorting out the relationship between the child and the other parent.

I'm not encouraging him to do anything. I was asking whether I needed to actively discourage this idea. In the end I told him I wasn't sure and that was enough and he chose to do something different.

My kids need to figure out how to have a relationship with him. I can't advise them on how to do that, given that I clearly failed at that task. And he needs to figure out how to have a relationship with them. Part of that might be getting feedback from them when he's really messed up, and bringing his anger at me into my children's home was a mistake.

In order for them to have a healthy relationship you need to support it. Of course its a bad idea to encourage that behavior and if you encourage it to happen to dad they will think its ok to do it to you. Your relationship with him is separate from his and the kids and you need to be appropriate and keep boundaries. Your kids are not your friends. Having them give feedback to complain about him to stop visitation speaks volumes.

Shockingly, I thought that a locked door was a boundary. I'm not sure how it's my fault that that boundary wasn't kept.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the bolded. When I mentioned feedback, I meant that telling his Dad "right now I don't want to be with you" is feedback to Dad that what Dad did hurt the kids.

You need to separate your relationship with him with the kids relationship with him. Clearly you don't want visits so stop the drama and visits already. Simple. Its not ok for a child to speak to their parent like that and your encouraging this behavior is part of the issue. You clearly cannot see your role in this so its best to terminate the relationship as this is only going to end badly for the kids if you continue down this path.

You are right. You are an amazing mom and parent and he is a horrible father who doesn't deserve his kids.... so, enough already. Stop with the games and just move on.

Father screams at mother in front of child. Child is upset.

Fascinatingly, our resident troll thinks that a) child has no right to be upset, b) child has no right to tell father he is upset, and c) mother must not listen when child says he is upset with father screaming in front of him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week, my kids' dad did some things that really pissed my teenager off. Based on what happened, I think his anger is pretty understandable.

Teen has announced his intention to walk out of visitation tomorrow.

I currently have temporary physical custody, but our permanent custody hearing is approaching. I am worried that this will look badly in court. That I'll be accused of alienation (something that is not happening). I think if I tell him that doing so increases the chances that he has to see his dad more than he does now, he'll back down and make some other plan.

What do people think?

I think it is your responsibility to deliver the kid to the appointed time/place where visitation occurs. After dropoff, all responsibility is with dad. If your kid is upset with something dad did, it's the father's responsibility to discuss it with the kid and sort it out. You can no longer mediate their relationship. It's up to the dad. Don't encourage son to walk out; encourage him to discuss with dad whatever is bothering him. Each of you will now have your own relationship with the child, and none of you is responsible for sorting out the relationship between the child and the other parent.

I'm not encouraging him to do anything. I was asking whether I needed to actively discourage this idea. In the end I told him I wasn't sure and that was enough and he chose to do something different.

My kids need to figure out how to have a relationship with him. I can't advise them on how to do that, given that I clearly failed at that task. And he needs to figure out how to have a relationship with them. Part of that might be getting feedback from them when he's really messed up, and bringing his anger at me into my children's home was a mistake.

In order for them to have a healthy relationship you need to support it. Of course its a bad idea to encourage that behavior and if you encourage it to happen to dad they will think its ok to do it to you. Your relationship with him is separate from his and the kids and you need to be appropriate and keep boundaries. Your kids are not your friends. Having them give feedback to complain about him to stop visitation speaks volumes.

In order for the to have a healthy relationship, an adult father must manage his own communication with the child. Child is upset at father? Father must take it up and sort it out. His child, his job.

It's not the mother's job anymore to support it, and it's not the father's job to support the child's relationship with the mother, similarly. This is the meaning of divorce. They no longer owe each other anything emotional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

How about women who don't value men in raising their children and women who don't think men should be equal parents. How about the fact Dad should have equal custody and not just visitation. And, how about having some kind of accountability for child support.

OP does not want Dad to have visitation and is clear she will sabotage it. She is only hurting her kids. Especially if she's raising boys.

Presumption in courts has long been 50/50. All divorced fathers I know who wanted 50% of time with their children got it. These were the men who understood that raising children is work, and were willing to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

Men like my ex husband, who is currently in court on contempt charges stemming from his yelling “I literally wish she’d kill herself” to his new girlfriend in front of our three kids.

The kids are sick of his shit and recorded him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

Men like my ex husband, who is currently in court on contempt charges stemming from his yelling “I literally wish she’d kill herself” to his new girlfriend in front of our three kids.

The kids are sick of his shit and recorded him.

I'm sorry, your kids shouldn't have to go through that.

-- OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

How about women who don't value men in raising their children and women who don't think men should be equal parents. How about the fact Dad should have equal custody and not just visitation. And, how about having some kind of accountability for child support.

OP does not want Dad to have visitation and is clear she will sabotage it. She is only hurting her kids. Especially if she's raising boys.

Go back under your rock.

Op, how are things going?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

How about women who don't value men in raising their children and women who don't think men should be equal parents. How about the fact Dad should have equal custody and not just visitation. And, how about having some kind of accountability for child support.

OP does not want Dad to have visitation and is clear she will sabotage it. She is only hurting her kids. Especially if she's raising boys.

Go back under your rock.

Op, how are things going?

We are stumbling onward, it's not a situation that's going to fix itself overnight.

-- OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

How about women who don't value men in raising their children and women who don't think men should be equal parents. How about the fact Dad should have equal custody and not just visitation. And, how about having some kind of accountability for child support.

OP does not want Dad to have visitation and is clear she will sabotage it. She is only hurting her kids. Especially if she's raising boys.

Go back under your rock.

Op, how are things going?

We are stumbling onward, it's not a situation that's going to fix itself overnight.

-- OP

Forward is fine! It may not really resolve until ds is 18. Hopefully you can get through until then with as little drama as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people (person?) who are piling on OP?? I don’t they are reading the same posts I’m reading because OP comes off as very reasonable to me.

Men who feel emasculated by the courts because they don't have power over visitation, custody and child support the way they think they should. Men who don't value the mother in raising their children. Men who see their children as 'rights' instead of responsibilities. F'd up men....

Men like my ex husband, who is currently in court on contempt charges stemming from his yelling “I literally wish she’d kill herself” to his new girlfriend in front of our three kids.

The kids are sick of his shit and recorded him.

Given how nasty your posts are, it sounds like there are issues with both parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your son should see a therapist for coping skills. Look at DBT.
Have your son talk directly to the judge. See if he can do it in private.

My kid is in therapy. Choosing to take a break from someone who has traumatized you, and using healthy things like physical exercise to manage stress are coping skills.

They did talk to the judge last time. In MD, 16 is the age when the judge needs to take their wishes into account though.

Traumatized. How was that? Sounds like the judge thought visits were best. He can exercise on your time and not the few hours with dad, aunt and cousins.

It seems he is going on these runs to get away from his dad so doing it on his moms time would undermine the reason for doing it.

He runs pretty seriously, but the point in leaving would be to get away from and make a statement to his dad. Otherwise he’d go before or after.

He didn’t end up leaving, he ended up separating himself but not leaving the house.

He sounds like a spoiled brat. Call an emergency court hearing and stop visits. Or, offer no visits for no child support.

Dad sounds like someone who hasn't built a relationship with his son and is paying the price for it. As soon as son is 18, bye bye, visits to Dad!

Its pretty hard to have a relationship when the other parent is sabotaging you. At 18, say goodbye to child support and helping to pay for college. OP should be fine with no child support if Dad is that bad and it gets Dad out of their lives. Seems pretty simple to me.

It sounds like the split is recent so the father should have already had a solid relationship with his son.

They are separated. Now managing the relationship with his son is the father's job. He should not rely on the mother to manage it in any way. If the son is upset with the father, it's up to the father to sort it out. He should not rely on his ex wife to clean up his mess. His son, his relationship, his job.

It’s impossible with a mother like this. Dad cannot clean up her mess.

Dad forces his way into my home, and screams at me in front of the kid, and the mess he made of his relationship with the kids is MY mess? How do you figure that? I'm not the one who dragged the kids into it.

DP. I am not blaming you for what his father did. It sounds really traumatic.

If your son wants this to be productive, especially if he wants visitation readdressed, then he can contact his father and express what he is feeling about the incident. Document that conversation. Bring it up with the judge. Just acting out is not going to make the point he wants to make, not really. But it can be made by being thoughtful and clear about what he wants and feels, and following up on that.

I would judge you for not encouraging him to handle this with care and thoughtfulness about what he wants, IF you failed to do that. You are his mother. Lead him.

What 14 year old behaves like that?

Not yours, apparently.