School Shooting in Michigan. 3 Teens DEAD. 1 15-yr old suspect in custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ethan *was* bullied, as detailed by a 12th grader at Oxford High School:

Did you actually watch? He said he didn't even know the kid. How would he know if he was bullied? It doesn't matter anyway, that's not a defense.

[Anonymous]

Now you're accusing the student there of lying? You can not know someone, not know their name, but see them in the halls getting picked on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ethan *was* bullied, as detailed by a 12th grader at Oxford High School:

This doesn't matter, it is not an excuse to kill people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ethan *was* bullied, as detailed by a 12th grader at Oxford High School:

Did you actually watch? He said he didn't even know the kid. How would he know if he was bullied? It doesn't matter anyway, that's not a defense.

+1

It is NOT a defense - and the ENABLING, bullying parents have to back off of this, and accept responsibility for their sons who "snap". Just because you bully the school administration to keep your kid in school (like these parents did), doe snot mean that other parents don't know your crooked agenda and optics stunt.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is not about discipline. The child was in mental health crisis.

He should have been sent to a hospital as would have happened if it was a life threatening physical illness.

You don’t leave the welfare of a kid who is talking the way he was in the hands of the questionable adults who raised him to be that way!

Schools can’t override parents when it comes to institutionalization and seeking treatment for a student. The school is a government agency, but it doesn’t have the force of policing or forcing health care decisions onto families.

What don’t people get about that? And do you really want school administrators to have that kind of power over your families? Schools really can’t act when there’s uncooperative parents and no signs of physical/sexual abuse.

I don't think of it as control "over my family."

I think of it as responsible adults stepping in to protect a child with very limited power.

Parents do not own their children.

This is from the PA dept of education's Model Suicide Prevention Policy:

<<Procedures for Parental Involvement

Parents or guardians of a student identified as being at risk of suicide must be immediately notified by the school and must be involved in consequent actions and provided with crisis and community resources. If any mandated reporter suspects that a student’s risk status is the result of abuse or neglect, that individual must comply with the reporting requirements of the Child Protective Services Law.

If the parents or guardians refuse to cooperate and there is any doubt regarding the child’s safety, the school personnel who directly witnessed the expressed suicide thought or intention will pursue a 302 involuntary behavioral health assessment by calling County Emergency Services at [provide number] and ask for a delegate. >>

The bar for actually sending someone to a hospital after county emergency service assessment is so high. My husband threatened suicide, had the means to do so and was missing for a time. When I called the police, they did the right thing and brought in the county mental health group. They asked him a few questions, spoke to him for less than 5 minutes and left. He was not in imminent danger according to them. I don’t know how much more proof someone is suicidal than a text outlining that he is going to do it.
If you haven’t been through this scenario, please don’t assume that the county or any mental health group is going to swoop in and save the day. They just don’t.

+1

So many people dn't understand in how many ways the school's hands are tied, especially with parents like these.

Numerous legal experts on student rights have come out and stated this school absolutely had the right, given the known information, to search this student’s bag and locker. They also had the right to keep the student detained, even if the parents wouldn’t take him home. And the Sheriff said they literally arrested a kid a couple days later just for threatening to copycat and they wished that school had called them in as soon as they called the parents. The school is so screwed here. And they should be.

Maybe. But the parents should be "more screwed" (sic). The parents f=dropped the parenting ball in each and every way possible. Besides that, they are cowards who ran like scared monkeys.

BOTH the parents AND the school need to be screwed.

And I'm disgusted that the parents were given bail at all after the stunt they pulled. The gun nuts of the world can pull together $100K online in days for the poor, martyred patriots.

They were given $500,000 each bond, not bail. The "gun nuts of the world" would have to put up that full amount. Sorry you're so disgusted but they're still sitting in jail.

Yeah, pop a Xanax and chill. The first report I saw was a local one that day and they incorrectly reported that it would only take 10% of the bond for cash bail (pretty standard). The national media reported later that the judge specifically ordered them held with 'no 10%." Good for her. She did the right thing. I saw the arraignment Zoom video and enjoyed how stunned Mommy Dearest looked at the idea she wasn't getting out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know if he had access to his backpack during the meeting. If not, I think asking to do his science homework could just have been his way of trying to get access to his backpack which contained his gun.

What angers me most....According to news reports, when the fact that when the news reports came on saying that there was a shooter at the high school, the father checked to see if the gun was still where it was stored. It wasn't. Father then called 911, claimed his own gun was missing and the shooter might be his son.

There was a 2 hour gap between the meeting and the shooting. Now, I think the parents should have told the school officials the kid had access to a gun. But even if they weren't willing to do that, why didn't the parents check at home IMMEDIATELY to make sure the gun was at home?

That's a highly under-reported factoid. I guess whatever special interests are likely bankrolling the prosecutor's PR didn't think that fit their agenda.

Yes, and mom immediately texted the kid "Ethan don't do it." She knew immediately.

+1

Too little, too late, as usual.

Agree, although I think such a trite phrase minimizes their repeated and significant parenting deficiencies over lifetime. Sadly there are no classes or exams required to be a parent, nor really any minimum standards.

+1

Agreed - typical of this kind of (non) parenting.

What’s odd is that it doesn’t seem like she was totally checked out—they got him an expensive Xmas present, she’s sending him jokey texts, etc. clearly they are awful parents but they are disengaged. They are just making all the wrong decisions because they are so steeped in their cultural or political beliefs that gun ownership is some sort of positive moral trait and any restraint on it or questioning of it is akin to telling them they can’t practice their religion. They are t hearing what the school says because she’s writing the school social workers off as an anti-gun knee jerk liberal who wants to take the guns from her family. Look back at her letter to trump—she’s basically saying her guns are more important to her than her right not to be sexually assaulted. That’s pretty profound.

Lots of parents who DGAF still buy expensive gifts. The bigger tell is that he drew that horrible drawing/cry for help and they just...left him there. And then he went to jail and they just...left town.

+1

Right? WHO does that??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about discipline. The child was in mental health crisis.

He should have been sent to a hospital as would have happened if it was a life threatening physical illness.

You don’t leave the welfare of a kid who is talking the way he was in the hands of the questionable adults who raised him to be that way!

Schools can’t override parents when it comes to institutionalization and seeking treatment for a student. The school is a government agency, but it doesn’t have the force of policing or forcing health care decisions onto families.

What don’t people get about that? And do you really want school administrators to have that kind of power over your families? Schools really can’t act when there’s uncooperative parents and no signs of physical/sexual abuse.

I don't think of it as control "over my family."

I think of it as responsible adults stepping in to protect a child with very limited power.

Parents do not own their children.

This is from the PA dept of education's Model Suicide Prevention Policy:

<<Procedures for Parental Involvement

Parents or guardians of a student identified as being at risk of suicide must be immediately notified by the school and must be involved in consequent actions and provided with crisis and community resources. If any mandated reporter suspects that a student’s risk status is the result of abuse or neglect, that individual must comply with the reporting requirements of the Child Protective Services Law.

If the parents or guardians refuse to cooperate and there is any doubt regarding the child’s safety, the school personnel who directly witnessed the expressed suicide thought or intention will pursue a 302 involuntary behavioral health assessment by calling County Emergency Services at [provide number] and ask for a delegate. >>

The bar for actually sending someone to a hospital after county emergency service assessment is so high. My husband threatened suicide, had the means to do so and was missing for a time. When I called the police, they did the right thing and brought in the county mental health group. They asked him a few questions, spoke to him for less than 5 minutes and left. He was not in imminent danger according to them. I don’t know how much more proof someone is suicidal than a text outlining that he is going to do it.
If you haven’t been through this scenario, please don’t assume that the county or any mental health group is going to swoop in and save the day. They just don’t.

+1

So many people dn't understand in how many ways the school's hands are tied, especially with parents like these.

Numerous legal experts on student rights have come out and stated this school absolutely had the right, given the known information, to search this student’s bag and locker. They also had the right to keep the student detained, even if the parents wouldn’t take him home. And the Sheriff said they literally arrested a kid a couple days later just for threatening to copycat and they wished that school had called them in as soon as they called the parents. The school is so screwed here. And they should be.

Maybe. But the parents should be "more screwed" (sic). The parents f=dropped the parenting ball in each and every way possible. Besides that, they are cowards who ran like scared monkeys.

BOTH the parents AND the school need to be screwed.

And I'm disgusted that the parents were given bail at all after the stunt they pulled. The gun nuts of the world can pull together $100K online in days for the poor, martyred patriots.

They were given $500,000 each bond, not bail. The "gun nuts of the world" would have to put up that full amount. Sorry you're so disgusted but they're still sitting in jail.

Yeah, pop a Xanax and chill. The first report I saw was a local one that day and they incorrectly reported that it would only take 10% of the bond for cash bail (pretty standard). The national media reported later that the judge specifically ordered them held with 'no 10%." Good for her. She did the right thing. I saw the arraignment Zoom video and enjoyed how stunned Mommy Dearest looked at the idea she wasn't getting out.

+1

Yup. She cried because she was caught. So much for "don't get caught!" Jennifer should have followed her own words. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you look at his old YouTube videos from a few years ago, he appears like a sweet, polite child talking about his boat collection and playing basketball with a group of friends; in one he his conscientious of the cost of a souvenir at a bear attraction.His parents can use these as evidence that they had no idea of his decline into a dark world.

This is prime evidence of bullying.

And speaking of parents, why aren’t the parents of bully’s held criminally responsible? Maybe if we did that, bullying would stop increasing every year.

Nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ethan *was* bullied, as detailed by a 12th grader at Oxford High School:

Calling BS on this senior at a 2,000-student high school knowing any details about this sophomore.
- Parent of a senior at another 2,000-student high school

[Anonymous]

Treating a weird/anti social kid like they are weird/anti social is not bullying. I tell my kids to steer very clear of these types. That doesn't make my kids bullies.

[Anonymous]

The bullying has no bearing on the criminal case, of course; there's no excusing what Ethan did. However, the personal injury attorneys will get to the bottom of it and if true—and I have no reason to believe the young man above would lie to the local ABC affiliate about witnessing Ethan being bullied—it will be yet another example of the school's pattern of negligence; admins were asleep at the wheel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Treating a weird/anti social kid like they are weird/anti social is not bullying. I tell my kids to steer very clear of these types. That doesn't make my kids bullies.

Weird is different than anti-social. Your kids are probably jerks like you. Also, steering clear is different than making jabs, pointing fingers etc. Also, you are a disgusting human being. Maybe the kid is autistic and sucks w/ social cues, maybe they are tired of being seen as different. Tolerance is a thing. That’s VERY different than a kid like this who was clearly struggling and talking about guns, shootings, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bullying has no bearing on the criminal case, of course; there's no excusing what Ethan did. However, the personal injury attorneys will get to the bottom of it and if true—and I have no reason to believe the young man above would lie to the local ABC affiliate about witnessing Ethan being bullied—it will be yet another example of the school's pattern of negligence; admins were asleep at the wheel.

On second thought, maybe it could? As in, if true, they may argue this kid was crying for help in several ways and faculty were privy to him being tormented by peers and/or a broad culture of bullying in the school was swept under the rug? Similar to those locker room sexual assault stories ... then once they break, you find out it's been happening every season for like 10 years and the coaches, AD, and principal all knew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Treating a weird/anti social kid like they are weird/anti social is not bullying. I tell my kids to steer very clear of these types. That doesn't make my kids bullies.

Weird is different than anti-social. Your kids are probably jerks like you. Also, steering clear is different than making jabs, pointing fingers etc. Also, you are a disgusting human being. Maybe the kid is autistic and sucks w/ social cues, maybe they are tired of being seen as different. Tolerance is a thing. That’s VERY different than a kid like this who was clearly struggling and talking about guns, shootings, etc.

You know nothing about me or my children. And your anxieties about your own child have nothing to do with this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bullying has no bearing on the criminal case, of course; there's no excusing what Ethan did. However, the personal injury attorneys will get to the bottom of it and if true—and I have no reason to believe the young man above would lie to the local ABC affiliate about witnessing Ethan being bullied—it will be yet another example of the school's pattern of negligence; admins were asleep at the wheel.

On second thought, maybe it could? As in, if true, they may argue this kid was crying for help in several ways and faculty were privy to him being tormented by peers and/or a broad culture of bullying in the school was swept under the rug? Similar to those locker room sexual assault stories ... then once they break, you find out it's been happening every season for like 10 years and the coaches, AD, and principal all knew.

sexual assault hazing* stories