Honest question for liberals about diversity/multiculturalism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

Our culture was lost. You may not like our culture, but to say that it is not lost is not true. And you took it by force, not by talking us politely out of it. And you are happy that you took it? It makes you feel righteous?

What "culture" is that, specifically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still no answer on what's been "taken away?"

So loud and vocal one minute, yet complete silence now...

Let’s see. Here are some things that I believe we are losing:

1. Tolerance on college campuses. In the name of “diversity,” colleges now have “safe spaces” for people to go to “relax” and “express their ideas.” But, of course, those spaces are only safe if you hold the same liberal views that colleges teach. Conservative speakers are rarely invited to college campuses.

2. Tolerance for people who hold different views. If one believes in traditional marriage or gender specific locker rooms, they are dismissed as homophobic or bigoted.

3. Religious tolerance. If a baker chooses not to make a cake or cupcakes for a gay wedding on religious grounds, that baker is sued and is in danger of losing his/her livelihood.

4. The concept that all people should be respected and not all points of view should be respected. Self-explanatory.

5. The concept that the best person for the job should be the one hired. Due to affirmative action, the strongest candidate for a job may very well NOT be the one that is hired.

1.) What, we should be tolerant of bigotry? As for this notion of liberal colleges, sorry but there's no such thing as "liberal calculus" or "liberal physics" or "liberal organic chemistry." But as to why conservatives don't get invited to colleges, perhaps it's because they want to tell us factually invalid things like "climate change is a hoax."

2.) I can't think of any particularly valid reason why we should be tolerant of bigotry and discrimination.

3.) Sorry but there is absolutely nothing in the Bible or in any religious teachings that says you can't or shouldn't bake cakes or cupcakes for gay people. Stop twisting religion as cover for your bigotry.

4.) Why should all points of view be respected? It's established, independently verifiable and scientifically sound fact that the earth is not flat and that it's more than 6000 years old and that man did not live with dinosaurs. Facts trump opinions. And sorry but scientific facts also trump old fairy tales written in religious books.

5.) Presupposes that somewhere there are these vast hordes of poor abused white job applicants who all got cheated out of jobs by minorities.

You have just demonstrated #2 above in your response - intolerance for people with opposing views.

And, I said that not all points of views should be respected. Check your comprehension. All PEOPLE should be respected.

PP asked what we are losing in the name of diversity. I have listed some of those things. Whether you agree or not is another issue.
And, as for #5 - it is a real issue. My DH lost out on a position because he is a white male. That was the ONLY reason. His qualifications were head and shoulders above other applicants, but because he was white and male he didn’t get the position. They were looking for “diversity.”

With regard to #2 I never said I was tolerant of other people's views. Why should I be tolerant or respectful toward someone who is being abusive and intolerant toward someone for no reason other than race, gender or other aspects of mere circumstance or birth condition? What gives someone the right to judge others on their condition by mere fact that they were born in America, as white, Christian, and better-off financially?

I call BS on #5. How does your DH know for a fact that his qualifications were head and shoulders above all of the other candidates? How would he be privy to confidential HR decisionmaking? Did he see their resumes? Was he present for their interviews? I doubt it. How could he possibly know for a fact that they weren't qualified? More likely he's making assumptions, because nobody hires unqualified people based solely on diversity.

Believe me.... he knew. Especially when a “score sheet” is used. When a person of color, or a woman, interviewed, that person automatically got 10 points. White male? Nada.
Do you not think that people on interview panels talk?
And, I didn’t say the others were not qualified. They may have been. But, my DH’s qualifications were stronger.
And, having served on interview panels myself, I have seen it happen.
It is a real issue, whether you believe it or not.

[Anonymous]

"Our culture's being lost"

Um, yeah, about that - no great loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

I am posting this last message, and then I am done with this thread because, as I pointed out, tolerance of other views has been lost.
You asked what has been lost. I gave you a list. Whether you agree or not, I really don’t care.
I will not debate with a person who is determined to have the last word just for the sake of having the last word. I am sure you are a real peach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people are OK with different cultures/races/etc. as long as such are "like them" in the sense that they value education, have advanced degrees, etc. So they would be with their kids going to a 50% Hispanic school if say, those Hispanics were the children of doctors and lawyers, but certainly would never send their kids to a school comprised of working class, ESOL students.

I know many who claim to be on board with diversity, think Trump is a racist, yet would absolutely never even entertain the idea of living somewhere like South Arlington or PG or Silver Spring.

This is a good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still no answer on what's been "taken away?"

So loud and vocal one minute, yet complete silence now...

Let’s see. Here are some things that I believe we are losing:

1. Tolerance on college campuses. In the name of “diversity,” colleges now have “safe spaces” for people to go to “relax” and “express their ideas.” But, of course, those spaces are only safe if you hold the same liberal views that colleges teach. Conservative speakers are rarely invited to college campuses.

2. Tolerance for people who hold different views. If one believes in traditional marriage or gender specific locker rooms, they are dismissed as homophobic or bigoted.

3. Religious tolerance. If a baker chooses not to make a cake or cupcakes for a gay wedding on religious grounds, that baker is sued and is in danger of losing his/her livelihood.

4. The concept that all people should be respected and not all points of view should be respected. Self-explanatory.

5. The concept that the best person for the job should be the one hired. Due to affirmative action, the strongest candidate for a job may very well NOT be the one that is hired.

1.) What, we should be tolerant of bigotry? As for this notion of liberal colleges, sorry but there's no such thing as "liberal calculus" or "liberal physics" or "liberal organic chemistry." But as to why conservatives don't get invited to colleges, perhaps it's because they want to tell us factually invalid things like "climate change is a hoax."

2.) I can't think of any particularly valid reason why we should be tolerant of bigotry and discrimination.

3.) Sorry but there is absolutely nothing in the Bible or in any religious teachings that says you can't or shouldn't bake cakes or cupcakes for gay people. Stop twisting religion as cover for your bigotry.

4.) Why should all points of view be respected? It's established, independently verifiable and scientifically sound fact that the earth is not flat and that it's more than 6000 years old and that man did not live with dinosaurs. Facts trump opinions. And sorry but scientific facts also trump old fairy tales written in religious books.

5.) Presupposes that somewhere there are these vast hordes of poor abused white job applicants who all got cheated out of jobs by minorities.

You have just demonstrated #2 above in your response - intolerance for people with opposing views.

And, I said that not all points of views should be respected. Check your comprehension. All PEOPLE should be respected.

PP asked what we are losing in the name of diversity. I have listed some of those things. Whether you agree or not is another issue.
And, as for #5 - it is a real issue. My DH lost out on a position because he is a white male. That was the ONLY reason. His qualifications were head and shoulders above other applicants, but because he was white and male he didn’t get the position. They were looking for “diversity.”

With regard to #2 I never said I was tolerant of other people's views. Why should I be tolerant or respectful toward someone who is being abusive and intolerant toward someone for no reason other than race, gender or other aspects of mere circumstance or birth condition? What gives someone the right to judge others on their condition by mere fact that they were born in America, as white, Christian, and better-off financially?

I call BS on #5. How does your DH know for a fact that his qualifications were head and shoulders above all of the other candidates? How would he be privy to confidential HR decisionmaking? Did he see their resumes? Was he present for their interviews? I doubt it. How could he possibly know for a fact that they weren't qualified? More likely he's making assumptions, because nobody hires unqualified people based solely on diversity.

Believe me.... he knew. Especially when a “score sheet” is used. When a person of color, or a woman, interviewed, that person automatically got 10 points. White male? Nada.
Do you not think that people on interview panels talk?
And, I didn’t say the others were not qualified. They may have been. But, my DH’s qualifications were stronger.
And, having served on interview panels myself, I have seen it happen.
It is a real issue, whether you believe it or not.

I still call bullshit, because I've been on both ends - I've done a ton of hiring and I've been through processes myself where there were extra points given for certain categories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

I am posting this last message, and then I am done with this thread because, as I pointed out, tolerance of other views has been lost.
You asked what has been lost. I gave you a list. Whether you agree or not, I really don’t care.
I will not debate with a person who is determined to have the last word just for the sake of having the last word. I am sure you are a real peach.

You posted what you think were some points. I gave valid counterpoints and debunked some of your points, challenging you to think a little harder, and do a little better. But instead of engaging your grey matter and instead of doing a bit of deeper soul searching you just want to dodge, deflect and run away.

*shrug*

Whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people are OK with different cultures/races/etc. as long as such are "like them" in the sense that they value education, have advanced degrees, etc. So they would be with their kids going to a 50% Hispanic school if say, those Hispanics were the children of doctors and lawyers, but certainly would never send their kids to a school comprised of working class, ESOL students.

I know many who claim to be on board with diversity, think Trump is a racist, yet would absolutely never even entertain the idea of living somewhere like South Arlington or PG or Silver Spring.

This is a good point.

If you're trying to suggest that the people calling Trump racist are hypocrites from the comfort of primarily white neighborhoods, then I think you are way off on that one...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

I am posting this last message, and then I am done with this thread because, as I pointed out, tolerance of other views has been lost.
You asked what has been lost. I gave you a list. Whether you agree or not, I really don’t care.
I will not debate with a person who is determined to have the last word just for the sake of having the last word. I am sure you are a real peach.

Buh-bye. And by the way I am indeed quite the peach. No doubt a lot more fun than you. Cheers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

I am posting this last message, and then I am done with this thread because, as I pointed out, tolerance of other views has been lost.
You asked what has been lost. I gave you a list. Whether you agree or not, I really don’t care.
I will not debate with a person who is determined to have the last word just for the sake of having the last word. I am sure you are a real peach.

You posted what you think were some points. I gave valid counterpoints and debunked some of your points, challenging you to think a little harder, and do a little better. But instead of engaging your grey matter and instead of doing a bit of deeper soul searching you just want to dodge, deflect and run away.

*shrug*

Whatever.

But you never ever acknowledged that there might be even the smallest grain of truth in what he said. That is why you are not polite. That is why you hurt the cause of diversity more than you help. That is why I suspect you are doing this mostly because you like to fight and feel like Jonathan Edwards instead of because you truely care about diversity. If you truly cared about diversity, you would recognize first the humanity of the other before you try to change their minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so still nothing legitimately lost...

In your opinion.

The only thing you've lost is this argument.

I am posting this last message, and then I am done with this thread because, as I pointed out, tolerance of other views has been lost.
You asked what has been lost. I gave you a list. Whether you agree or not, I really don’t care.
I will not debate with a person who is determined to have the last word just for the sake of having the last word. I am sure you are a real peach.

You posted what you think were some points. I gave valid counterpoints and debunked some of your points, challenging you to think a little harder, and do a little better. But instead of engaging your grey matter and instead of doing a bit of deeper soul searching you just want to dodge, deflect and run away.

*shrug*

Whatever.

But you never ever acknowledged that there might be even the smallest grain of truth in what he said. That is why you are not polite. That is why you hurt the cause of diversity more than you help. That is why I suspect you are doing this mostly because you like to fight and feel like Jonathan Edwards instead of because you truely care about diversity. If you truly cared about diversity, you would recognize first the humanity of the other before you try to change their minds.

Project much? It is you, not I, who is attacking diversity and defending bigotry. Bigotry is in itself about fundamentally denying the humanity of others, and that's the central issue here.

And by the way, if Rosa Parks were "polite" she would still be sitting in the back of the bus and that would certainly not have led to any minds being changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of people are OK with different cultures/races/etc. as long as such are "like them" in the sense that they value education, have advanced degrees, etc. So they would be with their kids going to a 50% Hispanic school if say, those Hispanics were the children of doctors and lawyers, but certainly would never send their kids to a school comprised of working class, ESOL students.

I know many who claim to be on board with diversity, think Trump is a racist, yet would absolutely never even entertain the idea of living somewhere like South Arlington or PG or Silver Spring.

This is a good point.

If you're trying to suggest that the people calling Trump racist are hypocrites from the comfort of primarily white neighborhoods, then I think you are way off on that one...

I think that poster is pretty spot on.

What exactly is it, then, if the obsessions over FARM rates and ESOL rates and having your kids with a good "peer group" isn't blatant racism/classism? I mean really, saying"I send my kid to XYZ school for the better peer group" or "we moved from [city neighborhood] to [affluent enclave] because it's nicer and the schools are better", sentiments frequently shared on DCUM, is no different than saying "I send my kid to XYZ school because there's fewer brown/poor children that might be a bad influence on mine." It's just more PC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still no answer on what's been "taken away?"

So loud and vocal one minute, yet complete silence now...

Let’s see. Here are some things that I believe we are losing:

1. Tolerance on college campuses. In the name of “diversity,” colleges now have “safe spaces” for people to go to “relax” and “express their ideas.” But, of course, those spaces are only safe if you hold the same liberal views that colleges teach. Conservative speakers are rarely invited to college campuses.

2. Tolerance for people who hold different views. If one believes in traditional marriage or gender specific locker rooms, they are dismissed as homophobic or bigoted.

3. Religious tolerance. If a baker chooses not to make a cake or cupcakes for a gay wedding on religious grounds, that baker is sued and is in danger of losing his/her livelihood.

4. The concept that all people should be respected and not all points of view should be respected. Self-explanatory.

5. The concept that the best person for the job should be the one hired. Due to affirmative action, the strongest candidate for a job may very well NOT be the one that is hired.

The fact that the people railing against multiculturalism and diversity think it's perfectly fine to deny service to, disadvantage, discriminate against, use slurs against people based on their race, ethnicity, gender identification already demonstrates that they do not have respect for all people.