Honest question for liberals about diversity/multiculturalism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

It is give and take, We as Americans must welcome and honor other culture as should the new immigrants. Now there are individual cases of fresh immigrants not understanding American culture and thinking theirs is better. Just as there are bigots here who want to impose American culture on whoever comes here NOT knowing that every culture has its faults, including American culture. So dont be peevish and find fault. Anyone can find fault with anyone because culture is neither a monopoly nor is it absolute. So be humble and learn from others, ignore the arrogant ignoramuses.

[Anonymous]

America is not more tolerant? Marriage equality. Right to go the bathroom in accordance with your gender. Unthinkable 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

Can you provide an example of this? There is a lot of expectation that immigrants honor and value the tenets of the American constitution...I think the challenge we face is for people who have been in this country for generations to accept that ultimately that is the primary commonality that brings Americans together. Even at the time of our founding, Georgia was culturally very different from Massachusetts.

[Anonymous]

The question is not, "Diversity, yes or no?" We already have an incredibly diverse nation and there is no going back. That's why it's so important to show and teach our children to get along with all kinds of people. This is a very practical need. Otherwise, they end up turning into adults who believe their race is superior/"normal"/right, and our national problems go on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a conservative who likes diversity. However, when you legislate social rules, you get pushback. I think too much is done now that encourages looking at people by the color of their skin rather than their character and talents. That is the problem. Like the achievement gap--there are two ways to close it: from the top or the bottom. Every child deserves the opportunity for a good education--but it starts at home. Universal preK is not going to make a difference if there is not support at home. Look at the studies about Head Start--the gains do not appear to last.

I taught for several years in a Title I school and I know that ALL kids are the same inside. But, when you encourage them to identify themselves by the color of their skin and blame others because of this, you are not helping them. Certainly, there are bigots and minorities have been mistreated. But, when you encourage kids to see themselves as victims, you are giving them three strike outs before they start.

Your point about Head Start is not accurate- here is a link describing issues with the study:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/03/05/does-head-start-work-for-kids-the-bottom-line/

[Anonymous]

Is this really dcum? with an intelligent thoughtful conversation about a controversial issue? how nice!

[Anonymous]

I think where we get hung up is diversity is so much more than skin color and there are people on all sides of the political spectrum that benefit by just focusing on race and putting groups against each other

Thankfully the US really is becoming a melting pot. Multicultrual marriages are on the rise and something like upwards of 33% of asian and Latina women marry outside their own race.

I can't wait for some of the older blacks and whites to die off so we can move beyond the whole race issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

Can you provide an example of this? There is a lot of expectation that immigrants honor and value the tenets of the American constitution...I think the challenge we face is for people who have been in this country for generations to accept that ultimately that is the primary commonality that brings Americans together. Even at the time of our founding, Georgia was culturally very different from Massachusetts.

One glaring example, IMO, is that there is no expectation that immigrants who come here learn English. While English is not the “official” language of our country, I don’t think anyone can claim that it isn’t the primary language, and that if you want to get ahead in business or as a resident of our country, you need to learn English.
For our country to bend over backwards to translate material into 10 or more languages is really ridiculous. It comes at great expense for businesses, school systems, and our government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you see as being the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism? Studies have repeatedly shown that as diversity increases, perceived life satisfaction, social trust/cohesion, and spending on public goods all decrease. So it's not obvious that diversity is conducive to human happiness or even that it furthers other liberal goals. America's increasing diversity doesn't seem to have made it a happier or more tolerant place. Ditto for Europe. And, of course, there are lots of places where different cultures/ethnicities/religions live side-by-side that have horrible histories of tribal conflict (Yugoslavia, Lebanon, etc.).

So, why is the discussion of this issue among educated people so one-sided? At the very least, it seems that diversity involves complex trade-offs and might be a good policy at some time and a bad policy at others.

So what are you proposing? I believe diversity and multiculturalism are good, because my lived experience growing up and going to school with a number of kids from immigrant families tells me so. And your historical myopia is not cute. Are you seriously arguing that America is less tolerant than it was during Jim Crow? Japanese internment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think where we get hung up is diversity is so much more than skin color and there are people on all sides of the political spectrum that benefit by just focusing on race and putting groups against each other

Thankfully the US really is becoming a melting pot. Multicultrual marriages are on the rise and something like upwards of 33% of asian and Latina women marry outside their own race.

I can't wait for some of the older blacks and whites to die off so we can move beyond the whole race issue

This is really a hateful thought.

[Anonymous]

I can't wait for some of the older blacks and whites to die off so we can move beyond the whole race issue

Both hateful and inaccurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a conservative who likes diversity. However, when you legislate social rules, you get pushback. I think too much is done now that encourages looking at people by the color of their skin rather than their character and talents. That is the problem. Like the achievement gap--there are two ways to close it: from the top or the bottom. Every child deserves the opportunity for a good education--but it starts at home. Universal preK is not going to make a difference if there is not support at home. Look at the studies about Head Start--the gains do not appear to last.

I taught for several years in a Title I school and I know that ALL kids are the same inside. But, when you encourage them to identify themselves by the color of their skin and blame others because of this, you are not helping them. Certainly, there are bigots and minorities have been mistreated. But, when you encourage kids to see themselves as victims, you are giving them three strike outs before they start.

Your point about Head Start is not accurate- here is a link describing issues with the study:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2013/03/05/does-head-start-work-for-kids-the-bottom-line/

If you read the study that HHS put out you can see that it's not effective. Articles trying to spin the results to fit an agenda aren't particularly convincing. There are NO EFFECTS that last even up to 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

One glaring example, IMO, is that there is no expectation that immigrants who come here learn English. While English is not the “official” language of our country, I don’t think anyone can claim that it isn’t the primary language, and that if you want to get ahead in business or as a resident of our country, you need to learn English.
For our country to bend over backwards to translate material into 10 or more languages is really ridiculous. It comes at great expense for businesses, school systems, and our government.

Agreed but the market takes care of that. People get hung up on trees and ignore the forest. There is no data to conclude that children of immigrants do not know English. Can you post any link to your comment about school materials being translated into 10 OR MORE languages? It does make sense to translate immigration related materials to be translated into 10 or More languages to cater to NEW immigrants who may not know English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

Can you provide an example of this? There is a lot of expectation that immigrants honor and value the tenets of the American constitution...I think the challenge we face is for people who have been in this country for generations to accept that ultimately that is the primary commonality that brings Americans together. Even at the time of our founding, Georgia was culturally very different from Massachusetts.

One glaring example, IMO, is that there is no expectation that immigrants who come here learn English. While English is not the “official” language of our country, I don’t think anyone can claim that it isn’t the primary language, and that if you want to get ahead in business or as a resident of our country, you need to learn English.
For our country to bend over backwards to translate material into 10 or more languages is really ridiculous. It comes at great expense for businesses, school systems, and our government.

while I agree that they should learn English, printing information in a foreign language is helpful especially for schools and gov't because recent immigrants may not have yet learned English well enough to understand more than a 5 yr old's level. Also, other countries provide free language immersion courses and subsidies for childcare and such so that these parents have the time to go learn the language.

It's not as easy as you may think.

My parents are immigrants. They tried to go to night classes to learn English. But, after working 9hrs/day in a grueling blue collar job, then having to come home and take care of 3 little kids, they found that they didn't have the time or energy to continue with the night classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One glaring example, IMO, is that there is no expectation that immigrants who come here learn English. While English is not the “official” language of our country, I don’t think anyone can claim that it isn’t the primary language, and that if you want to get ahead in business or as a resident of our country, you need to learn English.
For our country to bend over backwards to translate material into 10 or more languages is really ridiculous. It comes at great expense for businesses, school systems, and our government.

Agreed but the market takes care of that. People get hung up on trees and ignore the forest. There is no data to conclude that children of immigrants do not know English. Can you post any link to your comment about school materials being translated into 10 OR MORE languages? It does make sense to translate immigration related materials to be translated into 10 or More languages to cater to NEW immigrants who may not know English.

This is not ten, but it is seven. There are probably other documents on the FCPS website with more translations. And, there are translations for many, many documents in FCPS.
I am sure other area school districts are similar.
http://www.fcps.edu/it/byod/index.shtml