Honest question for liberals about diversity/multiculturalism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

Okay, if diversity is a *shrug* topic why all the obsessions with "FARMs rates" and ESOL students and school pyramids and the obsession over kids having a school with a "good peer group"? I've seen people express concern over demographics all.the.time. If diversity is a *shrug* topic, none of this would matter...but look at a school like Wheaton vs a Bethesda Walt Whitman and it very clearly does matter to a lot of people.

I still stand my the idea that many are fine with "good" diversity- i.e. Their kids going to school filled with say, Sasha and Malia Obama type minorities. But a school filled with kids like Michael Brown? Hell no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

+ a million.

This whole "diversity" thing started with good intentions but, unless we redefine it, it's going to become meaningless sh*t.

[Anonymous]

Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

Two completely different things. You can be on the front lines, and still have a pretty good school system overall. Really that hard to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

Okay, if diversity is a *shrug* topic why all the obsessions with "FARMs rates" and ESOL students and school pyramids and the obsession over kids having a school with a "good peer group"? I've seen people express concern over demographics all.the.time. If diversity is a *shrug* topic, none of this would matter...but look at a school like Wheaton vs a Bethesda Walt Whitman and it very clearly does matter to a lot of people.

I still stand my the idea that many are fine with "good" diversity- i.e. Their kids going to school filled with say, Sasha and Malia Obama type minorities. But a school filled with kids like Michael Brown? Hell no.

Okay, so now someone's trying to tease something deeper out.

"Sasha and Malia" types vs. "Michael Brown" types - well, that negates race but then you bring in FARMS rates, which focuses on economics but isn't actually all that directly relevant either, although for all intents and purposes serves as a proxy for what people are really concerned about - that being a disproportionate number of FARMS kids around the DC area being raised in very dysfunctional and sometimes abusive households and who may well have deeper physiological and developmental issues such as fetal alcohol disorder, and other things which increase likelihood of violent behavior. Kids who are already damaged goods can't be fixed through policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

Okay, if diversity is a *shrug* topic why all the obsessions with "FARMs rates" and ESOL students and school pyramids and the obsession over kids having a school with a "good peer group"? I've seen people express concern over demographics all.the.time. If diversity is a *shrug* topic, none of this would matter...but look at a school like Wheaton vs a Bethesda Walt Whitman and it very clearly does matter to a lot of people.

I still stand my the idea that many are fine with "good" diversity- i.e. Their kids going to school filled with say, Sasha and Malia Obama type minorities. But a school filled with kids like Michael Brown? Hell no.

You are talking about people in other counties. I can't speak for them. Sorry if Arlington does not validate your generalizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

You say "front lines" like supporting diversity requires combat pay.

[Anonymous]

Arlington is around 76% white, Bethesda is almost 85% white.

Not the front lines of diversity by any credible definition.

Just sayin'. Give it a rest already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

You say "front lines" like supporting diversity requires combat pay.

The suburban PPs touting how much they are supporting diversity and living out their beliefs certainly seemed to be portraying it like that, as though it were some great sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

Okay, if diversity is a *shrug* topic why all the obsessions with "FARMs rates" and ESOL students and school pyramids and the obsession over kids having a school with a "good peer group"? I've seen people express concern over demographics all.the.time. If diversity is a *shrug* topic, none of this would matter...but look at a school like Wheaton vs a Bethesda Walt Whitman and it very clearly does matter to a lot of people.

I still stand my the idea that many are fine with "good" diversity- i.e. Their kids going to school filled with say, Sasha and Malia Obama type minorities. But a school filled with kids like Michael Brown? Hell no.

Okay, so now someone's trying to tease something deeper out.

"Sasha and Malia" types vs. "Michael Brown" types - well, that negates race but then you bring in FARMS rates, which focuses on economics but isn't actually all that directly relevant either, although for all intents and purposes serves as a proxy for what people are really concerned about - that being a disproportionate number of FARMS kids around the DC area being raised in very dysfunctional and sometimes abusive households and who may well have deeper physiological and developmental issues such as fetal alcohol disorder, and other things which increase likelihood of violent behavior. Kids who are already damaged goods can't be fixed through policy.

^ This is a lot more to the point of what people mean when they bring up FARMS in talking about school choices. A far more interesting topic than trying to argue with someone about how "diverse" Bethesda supposedly is when it's over 80% white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

Two completely different things. You can be on the front lines, and still have a pretty good school system overall. Really that hard to understand?

Well that's the thing. I'll give you that there's a difference between the schools...but it's certainly not the curriculum, funding, or teacher quality. Ahem. So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Reading comprehension is important. We're not talking about people who send their kids to economically/racially diverse schools. We're talking about people who separate themselves into hyper segregated suburbs like Bethesda or n. Arlington or Ward 3, where they don't have to see poor minorities/poor white people (not that there are a ton of poor white people in DC), all while bemoaning racism and going on and on about how bigoted people like Donald Trump and his supporters are.

It's astounding hypocrisy.

+1 Not all white liberals are hypocrites, but the ones in communities that until relatively recently had housing covenants and redlining are certainly hypocrites. As are the ones who "support" affordable housing but fight tooth and nail to make sure their school boundary doesn't include any of that housing. Look at the hysteria over how the new MCPS middle school is going to be zoned and you'll see a lot of people who I'm sure vote (D) who are turning out at council meetings to argue against economically and racially integrated schools.

One the one hand you have these "awful and hypocritical" liberals, many of whom do indeed live up to their ideals, and most of whom at least DO SUPPORT THE FIGHT for better schools and affordable housing and desegregation and better opportunities and a social safety net to help those who are less fortunate...

...whereas on the other hand, you have the Republicans and Libertarians and Tea Party who don't so much as give a rat's ass about the less fortunate, and who will actively block any attempt to try.

arlington buses kids to yorktown to increase diversity. No pearls clutched.

*shrug*

Arlington isn't exactly "inner city ghetto" - some latino kids living near strip mall land. Meh.

Sorry are you saying that our minorities aren't ethnic enough? Or is your point that they aren't criminals?

Supporting diversity does not mean that you have to sell the home and go move into gang turf. It means you want diversity. It's the conservatives who think that minorities are all criminals and therefore you equate the two.

Diversity should be a *shrug* topic.

Okay, if diversity is a *shrug* topic why all the obsessions with "FARMs rates" and ESOL students and school pyramids and the obsession over kids having a school with a "good peer group"? I've seen people express concern over demographics all.the.time. If diversity is a *shrug* topic, none of this would matter...but look at a school like Wheaton vs a Bethesda Walt Whitman and it very clearly does matter to a lot of people.

I still stand my the idea that many are fine with "good" diversity- i.e. Their kids going to school filled with say, Sasha and Malia Obama type minorities. But a school filled with kids like Michael Brown? Hell no.

Okay, so now someone's trying to tease something deeper out.

"Sasha and Malia" types vs. "Michael Brown" types - well, that negates race but then you bring in FARMS rates, which focuses on economics but isn't actually all that directly relevant either, although for all intents and purposes serves as a proxy for what people are really concerned about - that being a disproportionate number of FARMS kids around the DC area being raised in very dysfunctional and sometimes abusive households and who may well have deeper physiological and developmental issues such as fetal alcohol disorder, and other things which increase likelihood of violent behavior. Kids who are already damaged goods can't be fixed through policy.

Okay, so you agree with the premise of this thread. Poor kids (who are overwhelmingly minority in the DC area) aka socioeconomic diversity brings a host of problems and issues and dysfunction. And thus you (general you) will seek out areas in which these problem people do not exist thus increasing the segregation. I appreciate your honesty.

[Anonymous]

^ That "general you" is pretty broad. Pretty much everyone does this. That's why the better-off black families move out of DC to places like PG too, because they also don't want their kids mixed up with a statistically demonstrated higher incidence of violence, drugs, theft, teen pregnancy, et cetera.

The only real question is, what do we actually do about it, toward dealing with the underlying causes. Things like busing or redistricting won't actually solve anything, that's just moving the issue around, the same "solution to pollution is dilution" mentality that leads to contaminated rivers. Moving a kid from an abusive household from school A to school B doesn't magically make him better. Putting some rich white kid in his school doesn't magically make him better either. What is far more likely to help is to provide robust, integrated wraparound services geared specifically toward breaking the cycles of multigenerational poverty.