Honest question for liberals about diversity/multiculturalism

[Anonymous]

The idea of "modeling" gets thrown around when talking about redistricting, busing or trying to change charter arrangements - but I see several problems with that -

- modeling can only work when there is a critical mass of people that have the pattern of behavior you are trying to achieve, and even then it won't always work

- when left to kids, too much of the wrong kinds of modeling happens - just look at how many kids around the area want to wear North Face or Helly Hansen jackets because they think it's the cool thing to have, to the point of where they are either stealing it from other kids or wasting good money on shitty Chinese knockoffs that fall apart if they even make it through a single season

- and, that it's not the job of anyone's kid to fix the problems of other kids in the first place...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

NP. I don't think so. Parents want good schools. If a local school was safe and well-run with high test scores, 90% of high-income white parents in the DC-MD-VA area would be happy to send their kids there. And if that same school was in the top 1-2 in test scores in the local area, then 99% would be happy to send their kids. The problem is that there's an unfortunate and intractable correlation between poor minority students and struggling schools. Instead of bashing parents for trying to find the best school for their children, we all should focus on breaking that correlation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

NP. I don't think so. Parents want good schools. If a local school was safe and well-run with high test scores, 90% of high-income white parents in the DC-MD-VA area would be happy to send their kids there. And if that same school was in the top 1-2 in test scores in the local area, then 99% would be happy to send their kids. The problem is that there's an unfortunate and intractable correlation between poor minority students and struggling schools. Instead of bashing parents for trying to find the best school for their children, we all should focus on breaking that correlation.

Agree. And the dilemma is that no matter how well intentioned, involved, supportive parents are, breaking that correlation is something that will likely take decades, a generation or two - whereas a parent's horizon for getting their own kids in and out of the schools is much shorter than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington is around 76% white, Bethesda is almost 85% white.

Not the front lines of diversity by any credible definition.

Just sayin'. Give it a rest already.

arlington is 63.8% non Hispanic white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

You say "front lines" like supporting diversity requires combat pay.

The suburban PPs touting how much they are supporting diversity and living out their beliefs certainly seemed to be portraying it like that, as though it were some great sacrifice.

not me. Sorry. Iris not a hardship Togo to diverse schools in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

Two completely different things. You can be on the front lines, and still have a pretty good school system overall. Really that hard to understand?

Well that's the thing. I'll give you that there's a difference between the schools...but it's certainly not the curriculum, funding, or teacher quality. Ahem. So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

no,Key and Claremont are good schools that are also immersion schools and are very diverse. So your code word theory does not fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

Two completely different things. You can be on the front lines, and still have a pretty good school system overall. Really that hard to understand?

Well that's the thing. I'll give you that there's a difference between the schools...but it's certainly not the curriculum, funding, or teacher quality. Ahem. So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

no,Key and Claremont are good schools that are also immersion schools and are very diverse. So your code word theory does not fit.

There are always exceptions to rules. *facepalm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

NP. I don't think so. Parents want good schools. If a local school was safe and well-run with high test scores, 90% of high-income white parents in the DC-MD-VA area would be happy to send their kids there. And if that same school was in the top 1-2 in test scores in the local area, then 99% would be happy to send their kids. The problem is that there's an unfortunate and intractable correlation between poor minority students and struggling schools. Instead of bashing parents for trying to find the best school for their children, we all should focus on breaking that correlation.

So you agree with the thread premise- that diversity causes issues, and that homogenous schools/towns are better places to raise kids/schools to send them to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

NP. I don't think so. Parents want good schools. If a local school was safe and well-run with high test scores, 90% of high-income white parents in the DC-MD-VA area would be happy to send their kids there. And if that same school was in the top 1-2 in test scores in the local area, then 99% would be happy to send their kids. The problem is that there's an unfortunate and intractable correlation between poor minority students and struggling schools. Instead of bashing parents for trying to find the best school for their children, we all should focus on breaking that correlation.

So you agree with the thread premise- that diversity causes issues, and that homogenous schools/towns are better places to raise kids/schools to send them to.

Mere fact of diversity doesn't cause issues, no. It's only when you start getting too many kids from dysfunctional households that it starts to cause a problem.

Note that this also happens in all-white schools too.

[Anonymous]

So I guess what we are saying is that we know the conservatives will fight against helping the low SES in any form whatsoever, the liberals will help, but cautiously and with some NIMBYISM - which leaves nobody but you, sitting in a corner by yourself pointing fingers and attacking everyone else.

Great.

Keep on attacking and alienating and maybe you'll get to the point where the liberals won't even want to help either.

Ah, yes. The "don't call me out on my bullshit or I'll never help you again" school of compassionate liberalism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

NP. I don't think so. Parents want good schools. If a local school was safe and well-run with high test scores, 90% of high-income white parents in the DC-MD-VA area would be happy to send their kids there. And if that same school was in the top 1-2 in test scores in the local area, then 99% would be happy to send their kids. The problem is that there's an unfortunate and intractable correlation between poor minority students and struggling schools. Instead of bashing parents for trying to find the best school for their children, we all should focus on breaking that correlation.

So you agree with the thread premise- that diversity causes issues, and that homogenous schools/towns are better places to raise kids/schools to send them to.

No. Your causal arrows are backwards. Poverty causes issues. Diversity does not cause the issues. Go to poor white schools in West Virginia or schools in wealthy black neighborhoods and you will see that diversity is not the cause of problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just LOLing at the folks in Arlington and Bethesda who seem to think they are on the front lines.

Compared to most of black or white DC, they certainly are.

Um, right. Which is why many white families move out of DC to places like Arlington and Bethesda as soon as their kids are school-aged.

Two completely different things. You can be on the front lines, and still have a pretty good school system overall. Really that hard to understand?

Well that's the thing. I'll give you that there's a difference between the schools...but it's certainly not the curriculum, funding, or teacher quality. Ahem. So again, "good schools" is code word for fewer poor/minorities than wherever the bad schools are.

no,Key and Claremont are good schools that are also immersion schools and are very diverse. So your code word theory does not fit.

There are always exceptions to rules. *facepalm

It's hard to find a bad school in Arlington. I just gave two examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Okay, so you agree with the premise of this thread. Poor kids (who are overwhelmingly minority in the DC area) aka socioeconomic diversity brings a host of problems and issues and dysfunction. And thus you (general you) will seek out areas in which these problem people do not exist thus increasing the segregation. I appreciate your honesty.

The premise of this thread is that diversity & multiculturalism lead to problems. You're saying that socioeconomic diversity leads to problems, which most people would acknowledge is true. That is different than racial diversity. It is possible to be racially diverse while being socioeconomically homogenous. I went to a private school in the midwest that was like that, actually.

Conflating the two things doesn't help anyone...both racism and classism exist in the US. Often the two are intertwined, but not always. And it's worth understanding the differences. I suspect the majority of people in Bethesda and Arlington are classist, not racist. The fact that race is correlated SES makes it difficult to deal with both problems simultaneously, but it doesn't help to call people who are self-segregating by SES class racists. It precludes a fruitful dialog. If you pointed out to those same people that their decision to self-segregate along class lines leads them to end up in a racially segregated situation without accusing them of being closet racists, you might be able to move the discussion forward. As someone who earns close to 10x the median income of the racially diverse area where I live, I can also speak to the fact that it's challenging for reasons that go beyond -isms. At some point you lack shared experience with which to build community. We don't have any plans to move any time soon, but we do wonder what it will be like for our kids (who are still young) to be so different from their peers in school etc. We both grew up in families where going to a four-year college was the expectation, and we're in an area where it's considered unusual. I'm sure our kids will likely do just fine in school, but they may feel socially awkward. In our case, we feel pretty stuck because we don't share the values of the more affluent neighborhoods we could move to, but we also don't really fit in where we are either. In the meantime, we like our house so we're sticking around for the time being, but it's not so simple as you might think.