Honest question for liberals about diversity/multiculturalism

[Anonymous]

What do you see as being the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism? Studies have repeatedly shown that as diversity increases, perceived life satisfaction, social trust/cohesion, and spending on public goods all decrease. So it's not obvious that diversity is conducive to human happiness or even that it furthers other liberal goals. America's increasing diversity doesn't seem to have made it a happier or more tolerant place. Ditto for Europe. And, of course, there are lots of places where different cultures/ethnicities/religions live side-by-side that have horrible histories of tribal conflict (Yugoslavia, Lebanon, etc.).

So, why is the discussion of this issue among educated people so one-sided? At the very least, it seems that diversity involves complex trade-offs and might be a good policy at some time and a bad policy at others.

[Anonymous]

Moderate liberal here. I have worked in technology and now in Finance. I have worked with the best and brightest from all races and culture and I think diversity is what has kept America at the cutting edge of innovation and new ideas. No other country is able to match American economic growth and innovative new companies simply because a diverse population can think more out of the box and can come up with solutions that will solve problems of varying nature.

America has always been multicultural, not just now. When Europeans came to the USA, native Americans were already here. And there were some aspects of native American culture that got mixed into the original melting pot. Then the mix with African culture to some extent. Not to mention that Europeans came with distinct and separate culture of their own. Its not like the Dutch, German and English had lot of commonality in the 1800s. (It may look like there is not much difference now, but even in a globalized world there are differences.) Then the Italians and Southern EUROPEANS were not even considered white to begin with not to mention they had distinct culture compared to Northern Europeans. Then when Eastern Europeans(Polish, Ukrainian, Russian etc) immigrated, they were not considered part of the western culture either. Yet they all became part of the American melting pot. Then there was the Latino wave(even though Latinos were original Americans and much older than Irish and Italian Americans) that again became part of the melting pot. Finally the Asian wave has contributed so much to the American culture, economy and intellectual ability. Every first generation immigrant has roots in both culture in varying degrees BUT the second generation,no matter their root, always feel they are american as a rule rather than exception.

Without fresh ideas and out of the box thinikng, any population will get lazy after few decades of continuous prosperity. Thats why civilizations(Chinese, Indian, Greek, Roman, Persian etc) as great as they once were fell. The rot will always set in no matter what. Thats why nothing(empires or corporations or homogeneous society) lasts forever BUT the most successful ones adapt and bring in new and diverse ideas. Europe is facing a demographic decline and they are pushing for diversity and increase in population lil too late. It has to be continuous flow as it is in the USA not a panic open the gates now reaction. Diversity is the secret sauce of why the US is special and it is also a test for human civilization to evolve and build a great society and eventually a great american civilization that can adapt and bring in the best from wherever and be the beacon for everyone to follow and learn from.

[Anonymous]

As a followup to my previous post, those who attribute diversity to America's failings are barking up the wrong tree. The ECONOMIC INEQUITY is what is causing UNHAPPINESS among certain segment of the society that has been left out by globalization or are just plain lazy and entitled. This situation has to be corrected by better economic/fiscal policies that helps the ones left out by various retraining or better education models and other innovative ways. Tax policy and better income allocation can be one of the factors in addressing this situation.

Blaming NON WHITE or ANY one group for economic situation is not a solution. Thats what demagogues do, attribute blame as a solution to a problem.

[Anonymous]

There are studies that show when you put a diverse group together there is greater efficacy in problem solving.

I was friends with a "diverse" group in college. All of our parents were immigrants, so we included Hispanic, South Asian, East Asian, Middle Eastern, black, and white people. Somehow, we all got along and are still friends. Somehow we all found things we had in common.

People are people, OP.

[Anonymous]

I think PP makes a lot of good points. I think OP also misses the mark to discuss diversity as an absolute good or not. The US was founded on certain intellectual principles about how society should govern itself, and those principles necessarily lent themselves to allowing for a more diverse population. Because tribal instincts are deeply ingrained in the human psyche, principles are not easy or always natural for humans to attain; but our continued willingness to abide by them even when its hard is what has helped the US be one of the longest standing and most stable governments on the planet.

Norman MacLain once criticized being unwilling to work toward overcoming human nature by pointing out that a lot of things are natural, like 'defecating in one's pants'...but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to overcome our natural instincts in order to be better.

Even dominant cultures evolve and change and splinter (cf. the Lutherans and Calvinists who were basically considered blasphemers when they first emerged with new ideas)...as hard as it is, I think the strength of the US is that we already have a framework in place to accept and integrate those changes.

[Anonymous]

I'm not Google master but here's what I typed into Google:

is diversity good for business?

The first ten links are from Forbes, Wall Street Journal, McKinsey and Associates, PWC, etc.

There seems to be a LOT of research showing that diversity is a good thing. And this has been my experience.

I'm sure you see things differently. Imagine that, we have a diversity of opinions on diversity!

[Anonymous]

I am a conservative who likes diversity. However, when you legislate social rules, you get pushback. I think too much is done now that encourages looking at people by the color of their skin rather than their character and talents. That is the problem. Like the achievement gap--there are two ways to close it: from the top or the bottom. Every child deserves the opportunity for a good education--but it starts at home. Universal preK is not going to make a difference if there is not support at home. Look at the studies about Head Start--the gains do not appear to last.

I taught for several years in a Title I school and I know that ALL kids are the same inside. But, when you encourage them to identify themselves by the color of their skin and blame others because of this, you are not helping them. Certainly, there are bigots and minorities have been mistreated. But, when you encourage kids to see themselves as victims, you are giving them three strike outs before they start.

[Anonymous]

My husband is from is from Finland, which rejected diversity and immigration. The population is rapidly aging and shrinking. I can't imagine what will come of it without immigration. Of course, they have rejected immigration for so long that when they are forced to open their borders there will be social upheaval.

Some of the most dynamic wealthy countries are the most diverse: The US, Singapore, Canada, Malaysia, Switzerland, Great Britain, etc.

[Anonymous]

I think it helps me be more open-minded, and I love that feeling of having my mind be blown wide open, and seeing things in a different light.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you see as being the benefits of diversity and multiculturalism? Studies have repeatedly shown that as diversity increases, perceived life satisfaction, social trust/cohesion, and spending on public goods all decrease. So it's not obvious that diversity is conducive to human happiness or even that it furthers other liberal goals. America's increasing diversity doesn't seem to have made it a happier or more tolerant place. Ditto for Europe. And, of course, there are lots of places where different cultures/ethnicities/religions live side-by-side that have horrible histories of tribal conflict (Yugoslavia, Lebanon, etc.).

So, why is the discussion of this issue among educated people so one-sided? At the very least, it seems that diversity involves complex trade-offs and might be a good policy at some time and a bad policy at others.

I think its really interesting that you would use Europe as an example here since it seems to me to be directly contrary to your point. The U.S. has had a long history of mulitculturalism and inclusion, and as a result, its immigrant communities are substantially more integrated into the county than they are in Europe. Europe, while generally being more progressive, has substantially more marginalized and segregated immigrant communities, and that fact has a direct and tangible impact on the current political situation there. There's a reason the Brussels terrorist attack was in Brussels, not the U.S. I also think nation-states with tribal conflicts aren't great comparisons, since those conflicts are an overlapping effect of longstanding historical strife with terrible state-building and artificial borders. Its true that arbitrarily shoving different ethnic and cultural groups into the same state often turns out poorly, but I think that says almost nothing about whether multiculturalism is a useful value.

More broadly, relying on studies showing that diversity can result in decreased perceived life satisfaction and decreased social trust and cohesion seems kind of like question-begging. The idea of multiculturalism isn't "let's throw a bunch of divergent groups together against their will," it is "when you have a multicultural community, let's teach tolerance and empathy, so that we don't have anger and lack of social trust. Multiculturalism is an attempt to alleviate the negative side effects of different groups coming together. In that sense, its highly pragmatic. Its true that if the U.S.'s demographics looked like Scandanavia, it might be much easier to run an effective society. But it doesn't, and nobody other than neo-nazis are suggesting mass segregation, so the question is whether we fully embrace our multicultural society and learn to live together or we don't.

I'd also note that folks who are less pro-diversity tend to ignore very real sociological and economic research as well. To give one example, virtually every single influx of immigrants into the U.S. has been met with distrust and fear yet has ultimately improved the economy and the standard of living, and research amply supports this point. These seem to me to be more lasting benefits than the "harm" caused by integration. I'm sure that a lot of Americans reported decreased "life satisfaction" and a decrease in "social trust/cohesion" when the Irish and Italians and Germans and Jews came over too, and you'd be hard pressed to make a non-idiotic argument that the country has been worse off in the long run because of those influxes.

I don't think the pro-diversity position is "Let's push more diversity wherever possible because it has no downsides," its "we live in a diverse world and diverse country, let's make the best of it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is from is from Finland, which rejected diversity and immigration. The population is rapidly aging and shrinking. I can't imagine what will come of it without immigration. Of course, they have rejected immigration for so long that when they are forced to open their borders there will be social upheaval.

Some of the most dynamic wealthy countries are the most diverse: The US, Singapore, Canada, Malaysia, Switzerland, Great Britain, etc.

+1 Japan and S. Korea are having the same problem as Finland, and they fear they will have to allow in more immigrants to support the aging population. Portugal is also dying out. They asked the EU to send them some of the refugees.

[Anonymous]

Diversity may or may not make people happier, but it's better for innovation, problem solving, richness of culture, and preparation for the future.

[Anonymous]

Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Diversity can be a good thing.
What I get frustrated with is the expectation that we, as Americans, must honor the cultures of other countries when the immigrants come here, but there is little expectation that they honor the cultures and expectations of OUR country.
If you are going to go to another country to live (or even to visit), it would be prudent to learn the culture, the laws, and the expectations of that country and learn to accept them. You can still honor your heritage, but don’t expect the citizens of the other country to follow your customs.

+1 as an Asian immigrant. But what foreign customs are Americans here expected to follow?

[Anonymous]

Even if multiculturalism has NO benefit to society, being accepting of our fellow citizens for who they are is still the right thing to do.