If you decided your husband was no longer "winner" material, would you divorce him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.

+1,000,000

But it is not a level playing field. There are a gazillion men in the past few decades who married believing that they and their spouses would both continue working, only to have their well-educated, successful wives decide that they wanted to become SAHMs. How many of those men tell their wives they need to keep working and suggest to anyone that their wives are no longer "winner" material. If anything, it's the opposite; it's still a sign of their success as breadwinners that they can support a non-working spouse.

When my first DD was born, my DH did indeed tell me he wanted me to keep working and that he did not want the stress of being the sole breadwinner. We made choices about childcare and employment for both of us, together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.

+1,000,000

But it is not a level playing field. There are a gazillion men in the past few decades who married believing that they and their spouses would both continue working, only to have their well-educated, successful wives decide that they wanted to become SAHMs. How many of those men tell their wives they need to keep working and suggest to anyone that their wives are no longer "winner" material. If anything, it's the opposite; it's still a sign of their success as breadwinners that they can support a non-working spouse.

My DH could easily support the whole family on his income, but it is an expectation that I work. I have seen a TON of men on this board complain that their SAHWs are lazy and they wish they would work. I think for *some men* they speak in a derogatory manner about SAHMs...I know one such guy in particular who is a bit offensive in his strong opinions on the matter and he is easily pulling in 500K/yr and his wife probably even more. He has no respect for women who don't work. I do think it goes both ways. I don't agree with it, but it is certainly prevalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.

You can definitely decide *together* that one spouse SAH while the other is the breadwinner. That's what happened in my marriage. But, I agree, that it needs to be a joint decision. I can't imagine making a huge decision like that w/o the input and support of my spouse.

I view a partnership as fluid. There were no "rules" for us as far a earning potential goes.

-I had my first child and thought I wanted to go back to work. Baby came and I could not part with my baby. Though it was financially tough, my DH fully supported my desire to be at home. WE scaled back and made it work.
-I returned to work after 2 years because I felt OK leaving my child and was feeling more confident as a mother. My income quickly ramped up.
-After me working for a few years, my DHs job got miserable. THe poor man was so stressed out. He hated his job, his boss, he got backstabbed and went into a very dark place. It tore me apart to see my DH so miserable, but his sense of duty kept him going. Once day I could no longer see my DH suffer. I said FUCK THEM. Go in tomorrow and quit. Tell them you are the fuck out of there. He was shocked. He never considered quitting, he was "the man". However, my man's job was killing him. The next Monday he rolled in and put in his 2 weeks. It was such a relief. He took a month off from work, banged out a bunch of projects and really recharged himself. I was so proud and happy to give my DH the opportunity to walk away from his job and to carry the family for awhile while he recovered and found happiness again. He was back to work at a new 8 weeks after quitting.
-Now, I'm considering taking a "break" and starting my own business. For that my DH will have to carry the load while I get on my feet. He fully supports me.

So again, I do not see these roles are ridgid. They are fluid and we adapt as life happens.

NP here. This is fine and my expectation as well, but both people have to be willing to adapt and make the best of a situation. There still has to be give and take, it can't all pile up on one person alone.

My DH is unemployed right now and he's making me crazy. He's applying for jobs, but not doing networking or anything and despite him being home, I still take care of everything else plus I now have the stress of being the sole breadwinner. I cannot carry all of us alone and keep DH's spirits up. Looking for a job is so hard, but he's not making any effort to be positive or help out in other ways. I'm burned out. If he was using this time to work on projects, go out and network, was stepping it up at home a bit so I'm not coming home to even more work (at least put his damn lunch and breakfast dishes in the dishwasher), it'd be easier. But he's not. And I'm so damn tired and starting to get resentful. I feel like I married a partner and now I have another child.

He's a great father, but he's a Fun Dad. The discipline and background drudge is left to me, even more so now that he's in such a slump. Which is causing issues since he's now around more than I am. DC needs discipline, I need help with juggling parent teacher conferences, packing lunches, doc appts, making sure forms get taken to school, etc. Same thing with running our home. I do the groceries, the cooking, the cleaning, the bill-paying, etc. He does do laundry. But he did that before too. I was fine when he first got laid off, but nothing has changed. He hasn't adapted. I had the more flexible career of the two of us, so I was point on the kid/home-front, now, I've had to step it up at work to bring in more money and I'm STILL point on kid stuff and home stuff.

I'm ok with being our roles being fluid, sometimes I'm the point person at home, sometimes I'm the breadwinner, sometimes we're about even, but this situation, where I'm doing it all and there's no end in sight, isn't working. I need to see effort from him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was turning out to be less successful professionally than you thought he would be (like not being partner material), would you consider divorce? What if you were getting the impression that he was turning out to be more "beta" than "alpha" mail in professional or social situations?

My husband as been under or unemployed for the 7+ years I've known him. I knew he was "behind" professionally and financially when we met, but I thought he had potential. I'm not so sure anymore. The more time that goes by, the more resentful I feel towards him and myself -- that I made such a poor choice in a partner.

DH is a terrific father to our toddler, he does more than his share of household upkeep, and he's one of the best persons I know in terms of character, generosity, integrity, etc. but all of this is overshadowed when I feel chronically stressed from the pressure of being the primary breadwinner. For this reason, I am no longer attracted to DH. I don't want or need a man to take care of me; I want a partnership where we are realizing our financial goals and dreams (college fund for DC, golden retirement, house, etc) together.

I feel lonely, depressed, and bleak about my future. I have no one to talk to about this, so I post anonymously on DCUM.

I feel exactly like what you wrote about 70% of the time. The rest of the time I'm so thankful to have a kind, generous, loving husband and father of my children. But that 70% feels pretty dark sometimes.

Add me to this group, and I'm not getting divorced. I married a man I thought was my equal and that we both wanted to work hard, pay off our student loans, and make a quiet life that minimized the rat race. Fast forward to him being unemployed for more than half of our marriage and me working 70+ hour weeks to pay for everything and having maybe 30 minutes a day to sit down. I pay for everything, and not because we agreed on it, but because he is always about to start looking for a job in "a couple of months." He is a great guy - good, kind, patient - and a solid, present father. He is an awful provider and an awful partner, though. Whatever OP's intentions, know that it isn't always black and white - winners and losers.

PP here (the first one). As selfish as this may sound...it's nice to here that I'm not alone!

I'm in the same exact boat- I really could have written your post op word for word. Sometimes I feel so alone because none of my friends are in this situation so they don't understand how I feel or how stressed out I am. Sorry but no woman I know goes into a marriage expecting to be the breadwinner. I don't expect my husband to be the only breadwinner- I expect him to share the role with me.

Newsflash, PP: you are wrong, especially around here. I can think of three women (close friends, in fact) who are sole breadwinners and a dozen others who make more than their husbands. These women went into their relationships eyes open because they were looking for love, not financial support.

Times have changed.

Yes, times have changed. At present, I earn a little more than 3x my husbands salary, and that is ok with us for now, but it does give me some anxiety to be the primary breadwinner, especially because I am a lawyer at a big firm and times are very uncertain for big firms these days -- read: little job security.

Among my female colleagues and friends (many of whom out earn their husbands but still have husband bringing in an income), we often have a lot I empathy for the guys among us who are sole breadwinners for their families, because things are so uncertain. I think whether you are a man or a woman, it is extremely stressful to bear the burden of providing for the entire family these days in light of the general enviroent of job insecurity, etc.

Back in the day -- ie, our parents generation, men could go to work everyday and provide for their families without too many worries about layoffs etc. I know they existed then too, but I think companies have far less "loyalty" to their employees these days and are far more likely to outsource. But today -- for both men and women, employment can be more precarious, so in that sense, I think it is far more stressful for a sole breadwinner, male or female.

[Anonymous]

My husband has far exceeded my expectations for his earning potential (he makes $425k, and I would have expected about $100k). Obviously, we could live quite comfortably on his salary alone, but I choose to keep my job ($120k) because it is nice to have a back up plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it OK to divorce a wife for being fat and wrinkled?

If she was fat and wrinkled when you married her, no. If she's given up presenting her best self to the world, and it bothers you, then you have a case. How's that for an unpopular opinion? I just think BOTH people in the relationship have a responsibility to maintain themselves for the other, illnesses aside of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it OK to divorce a wife for being fat and wrinkled?

If she was fat and wrinkled when you married her, no. If she's given up presenting her best self to the world, and it bothers you, then you have a case. How's that for an unpopular opinion? I just think BOTH people in the relationship have a responsibility to maintain themselves for the other, illnesses aside of course.

What do illnesses have to do with it? You're suddenly going to respect the "in sickness and in health" clause but ignore all of the other ones? WTF? The way you think, a partner should be easily discarded if they get sick. You didn't sign up for that shit, did you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.

+1,000,000

But it is not a level playing field. There are a gazillion men in the past few decades who married believing that they and their spouses would both continue working, only to have their well-educated, successful wives decide that they wanted to become SAHMs. How many of those men tell their wives they need to keep working and suggest to anyone that their wives are no longer "winner" material. If anything, it's the opposite; it's still a sign of their success as breadwinners that they can support a non-working spouse.

My DH could easily support the whole family on his income, but it is an expectation that I work. I have seen a TON of men on this board complain that their SAHWs are lazy and they wish they would work. I think for *some men* they speak in a derogatory manner about SAHMs...I know one such guy in particular who is a bit offensive in his strong opinions on the matter and he is easily pulling in 500K/yr and his wife probably even more. He has no respect for women who don't work. I do think it goes both ways. I don't agree with it, but it is certainly prevalent.

I guess I'm sort of relieved that I didn't marry a guy like that. I mean I can totally understand not wanting to be the sole breadwinner/wanting a spouse to work but to have zero respect for SAHPs in general is a little..well, mind boggling and 100% not his business. Sorry. Not his call, I don't care how much $$$$ he makes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a big difference between a couple that goes into marriage knowing full well their spouse expects them to be the sole or primary breadwinner, and the couple that winds up in the this situation unwittingly. I wouldn't see a problem with the former; the latter is a recipe for discontent in a marriage. Sure, stuff can happen -- death, disability. But thinking you were entering a partnership of earning and winding up with eveything on your back -- that's something else altogether. I don't care if the non-earner is male or female. Same issue in my book.

You can definitely decide *together* that one spouse SAH while the other is the breadwinner. That's what happened in my marriage. But, I agree, that it needs to be a joint decision. I can't imagine making a huge decision like that w/o the input and support of my spouse.

I view a partnership as fluid. There were no "rules" for us as far a earning potential goes.

-I had my first child and thought I wanted to go back to work. Baby came and I could not part with my baby. Though it was financially tough, my DH fully supported my desire to be at home. WE scaled back and made it work.
-I returned to work after 2 years because I felt OK leaving my child and was feeling more confident as a mother. My income quickly ramped up.
-After me working for a few years, my DHs job got miserable. THe poor man was so stressed out. He hated his job, his boss, he got backstabbed and went into a very dark place. It tore me apart to see my DH so miserable, but his sense of duty kept him going. Once day I could no longer see my DH suffer. I said FUCK THEM. Go in tomorrow and quit. Tell them you are the fuck out of there. He was shocked. He never considered quitting, he was "the man". However, my man's job was killing him. The next Monday he rolled in and put in his 2 weeks. It was such a relief. He took a month off from work, banged out a bunch of projects and really recharged himself. I was so proud and happy to give my DH the opportunity to walk away from his job and to carry the family for awhile while he recovered and found happiness again. He was back to work at a new 8 weeks after quitting.
-Now, I'm considering taking a "break" and starting my own business. For that my DH will have to carry the load while I get on my feet. He fully supports me.

So again, I do not see these roles are ridgid. They are fluid and we adapt as life happens.

Love this story. I think what makes it work is that both you and DH are willing to be fluid (some people are very rigid about certain things) and that it goes both ways. In the cases where the spouse wife is doing everything and not by choice, the husband isn't saying, hey while I am not working let me take on doing these extra things and when I am working again we can readjust.

[Anonymous]

Op, didn't you know when you were marrying a lawyer that by definition you were not marrying an alpha male? It's a service industry for goodness sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he was turning out to be less successful professionally than you thought he would be (like not being partner material), would you consider divorce? What if you were getting the impression that he was turning out to be more "beta" than "alpha" mail in professional or social situations?

Are you under 30 and hot? If not, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is winner material and no one would ever mistake him for an "alpha" male. After ten years I can't believe how lucky i am!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband has far exceeded my expectations for his earning potential (he makes $425k, and I would have expected about $100k). Obviously, we could live quite comfortably on his salary alone, but I choose to keep my job ($120k) because it is nice to have a back up plan.

What I would love to know is where do these people get these incredibly high paying jobs? Are there really that many people making so much or is DCUM a bubble?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has far exceeded my expectations for his earning potential (he makes $425k, and I would have expected about $100k). Obviously, we could live quite comfortably on his salary alone, but I choose to keep my job ($120k) because it is nice to have a back up plan.

What I would love to know is where do these people get these incredibly high paying jobs? Are there really that many people making so much or is DCUM a bubble?

and to have a 120K job as a "back up plan"...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has far exceeded my expectations for his earning potential (he makes $425k, and I would have expected about $100k). Obviously, we could live quite comfortably on his salary alone, but I choose to keep my job ($120k) because it is nice to have a back up plan.

What I would love to know is where do these people get these incredibly high paying jobs? Are there really that many people making so much or is DCUM a bubble?

and to have a 120K job as a "back up plan"...

This is me, so let me explain.

When I met my husband, we were seniors in college. He was a dirt poor single dad (due to an oops! college dorm hook up pregnancy). In addition to going to school, he was also working at a call center answering phones for a second-rate financial services company to send child support to his daughter.

After graduation, he got a job at a well-known financial services firm in their call center. He worked really hard for years, and he is now a financial planner with a very successful practice. He is really good at was he does. I am so proud of him.

I was hired as a GS-9 federal employee almost 14 years ago. I am still there, now as a GS-14. I come from a working class background, so a $120k job as a back up seems crazy to me, too. But it is what it is. I know we are very fortunate, but we weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths.