When sorority rush goes wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she just wants friends and a community, what's wrong with the "lowest tier" houses? If all she wants is friends and a community, why would she care about the presumed prestige of a sorority? For that matter, if all she wants is friends and a community, why rush at all? There are many other ways to make friends.

Exactly. Any sorority will be a community for her. She doesn't need to be a snob about it.

You were so kind until that last sentence. It doesn’t meant the girl’s a snob if she didn’t feel a connection to one of those communities that offers her a a bid.

Calling a group of girls "lower tier" is very different from saying "she didn't feel a connection" to them. She is absolutely being a snob. Or maybe mommy is the one categorizing sororities, in which case mommy is the snob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she just wants friends and a community, what's wrong with the "lowest tier" houses? If all she wants is friends and a community, why would she care about the presumed prestige of a sorority? For that matter, if all she wants is friends and a community, why rush at all? There are many other ways to make friends.

Exactly. My daughter never bothered to rush and has a great community of friends. Greek life is not necessary in the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she likes the girls she met at the houses that are still on her list, I would encourage her to complete the rush process and see where she ends up. If she doesn’t care about Greek life per se, then the hierarchy shouldn’t matter to her.

This.
I would encourage her to stay in and give it a try. Most of the time the experience that is offered at one house is replicated at other houses…and she’ll see that over time! Her ego is understandably bruised but if she can try to focus on enjoying the attention and company of the girls in the houses who are most excited about welcoming her—she could still have an amazing experience and may even find her people!

The ONLY exception to this advice is if the lowest tiered house is objectively not in good shape membership-wise. If it is a chapter that is significantly struggling to attract and retain members, routinely struggles to fill quota, or whose new member classes are significantly smaller than other houses (like half the size or even twenty fewer new members when all other houses have new member classes of 50), then the experience they are able to offer may not be comparable. And the focus is likely to be entirely on year-round membership recruitment. This is fine if your DD is an extrovert and is excited by the prospect of helping a chapter’s growth through marketing and recruiting. And if she has the right mindset and attitude for this sort of chapter, she can make a real and positive impact! But it is also a lot of work and isn’t for everyone.
Whatever the case, encourage her to go to bid day and give it two weeks after that before making her final decision. This will give her a better idea and then she won’t have regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What in the world is a lower tier house?

You asked so please don't shoot the messenger.

Typically physically unattractive and/or overweight.

Wow you southern belle mamas really are a nasty, nasty bunch.

It's not only the Southern belles. It's the NYC and Boston girls too. It's all of it.
The higher the house, the thinner and hotter the girls.

I'm sorry, but you people are just so pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are indulging teenage drama. Surely you are an adult with experience who can acknowledge her feelings and draw her into a wider perspective?

I understand this perspective, but have you had a 19 year old girl? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make her drink. We went through exactly this scenario with DD. It all worked out in the end, but it was a tough few weeks in the immediate aftermath. She only got one bid, and it was from a sorority that she didn't "connect" with (Yes, she would call it "lower tier"). We tried to convince her to give it a shot, but she wouldn't. Again, 19 y.o. girl stuff. It isn't always rational to adults.

I’m the poster you are responding to. I have an 18 yo daughter and another teen daughter in HS. Is that good enough? I am speaking of the adult, parental response. Just because a teen wants to go down an emotional black hole, you need not agree that her doom and gloom view is accurate. Acknowledge her feelings-which I said in my post- but no you need not agree that her view of the world is accurate. Honestly I believe they are calling you to hear both- that it sucks and that it’s going to be okay in the end, even if they pick a different and don’t acknowledge it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are indulging teenage drama. Surely you are an adult with experience who can acknowledge her feelings and draw her into a wider perspective?

I understand this perspective, but have you had a 19 year old girl? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make her drink. We went through exactly this scenario with DD. It all worked out in the end, but it was a tough few weeks in the immediate aftermath. She only got one bid, and it was from a sorority that she didn't "connect" with (Yes, she would call it "lower tier"). We tried to convince her to give it a shot, but she wouldn't. Again, 19 y.o. girl stuff. It isn't always rational to adults.

I’m the poster you are responding to. I have an 18 yo daughter and another teen daughter in HS. Is that good enough? I am speaking of the adult, parental response. Just because a teen wants to go down an emotional black hole, you need not agree that her doom and gloom view is accurate. Acknowledge her feelings-which I said in my post- but no you need not agree that her view of the world is accurate. Honestly I believe they are calling you to hear both- that it sucks and that it’s going to be okay in the end, even if they pick a different and don’t acknowledge it.

And by calling, I mean mostly texting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she just wants friends and a community, what's wrong with the "lowest tier" houses? If all she wants is friends and a community, why would she care about the presumed prestige of a sorority? For that matter, if all she wants is friends and a community, why rush at all? There are many other ways to make friends.

This. I feel for your daughter; it can be a brutal process. I went through rush and got my first choice and was later a Rho Chi (a Panhellenic guide for the girls rushing).

Rush can be crappy for sure, but the process IS about finding your people. It seems as though your daughter was approaching the process all wrong. She was gunning for the most popular sororities (most likely the “hot girl” sorority). She wasn’t making genuine connections throughout the process. The sisters at rush (at the more desirable houses) can recognize this. Plenty of people are unaffiliated. If she truly wants a community, she should pledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot believe we allow this ridiculous Greek system to persist. As if women need more things in life that pit us against other women on the basis of how we look and encourage a judgmental class system where some are "in" and some are "out." The fact that she wants to transfer because she didn't get into one of the "good" sororities speaks to how mentally unhealthy this whole system is.

Michigan is a huge school where anyone can find their people if they try. Most students at Michigan aren't even in sororities or fraternities. Greek life just isn't a big thing there. I'm sure she feels like her entire college experience will be ruined, but maybe it's time for some perspective. Give it time, find some other clubs or groups, and maybe she rushes next year. Choose the people who choose you!

Who is "we?"

The Greek system is fun!

Also, your disdain for its recruitment practices doesn't matter because you are wrong.

YOU LEARN REAL LIFE SKILLS IN RUSH!

If you are in business, law, lead an academic medical department that relies heavily on donations, any leadership position, and almost any other profession - you NEED THE SKILLS that help you succeed in rush (both as a rusher and. Rusher)

Good presentation skills
Engaging small talk
Choosing the right clothes for the right occasion
Networking
Emotional intelligence
Selling yourself and building a positive reputation for yourself.

Honestly, if you can't make it through rush, you probably aren't going to do very well in the professional world, especially not at the leadership level

Is this your effort at demonstrating good presentation skills and emotional intelligence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she just wants friends and a community, what's wrong with the "lowest tier" houses? If all she wants is friends and a community, why would she care about the presumed prestige of a sorority? For that matter, if all she wants is friends and a community, why rush at all? There are many other ways to make friends.

Exactly. Any sorority will be a community for her. She doesn't need to be a snob about it.

You were so kind until that last sentence. It doesn’t meant the girl’s a snob if she didn’t feel a connection to one of those communities that offers her a a bid.

Calling a group of girls "lower tier" is very different from saying "she didn't feel a connection" to them. She is absolutely being a snob. Or maybe mommy is the one categorizing sororities, in which case mommy is the snob.

NP but not-necessarily. It’s by definition a hierarchical system that issues number of invitations each round based on how “desirable” the membership in the houses are to the potential new members seeking to join. The higher the percentage of girls ranking a house as their number one choice, the fewer invitations that house can issue each round so that they aren’t stringing girls along all week only to drop them all at the end. Top tier is another way to say “house most desired by the greatest number of PNMs” and Bottom tier is house least desired by the greatest number of PNMs.
It’s just a statistical fact, but it feels like “snobbery” because the PNMs can’t join more than one house and they must make a choice. When a huge number of girls are all choosing the same house as their ideal number one, it is referred to as the top choice or top tier.
You can call it something else but it is just what it is.
People have preferences and it doesn’t mean that the girls who join the house least preferred by the pNMs are not nice, sweet, attractive, friendly girls. They could still be all of those things. But for whatever reason other houses are preferred by a greater percentage of the girls who are looking to join.
Some girls only want to join a house that a high percentage of girls also want to join. Others don’t mind being in a group that is not at the top of the preference order.
If your DD just wants to have a group to hang with who also want to hang with her, she will be happy in the “bottom tier” group. But most 18-20 year olds are not that secure or confident enough to not care what other people think, and they want to join a group that others also place a high preference for.

[Anonymous]

For U Mich posters, my DD is also rushing. I'm not wanting to ask too much but she told me she started with 16 and that number then went down for everyone to 11 or fewer, and then some kind of decision making happens that goes down to 7 or fewer by tomorrow morning.

As a basic question, when do the girls know for sure if they will have an opportunity to join one of the remaining sororities on their list? After tomorrow morning, is there still a chance of being "shut out" or is everyone guaranteed a spot in one of the houses on their remaining list?

And does anyone know when, after tomorrow morning's news, the next update happens?

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP.
I haven't been back since about page 2 of this thread. My daughter didn't attempt to rush the top tier houses. The ones she aimed for were somewhere around high mid to my understanding. She chose them because that's where she knew girls from her high school and that's where her current friends also put in bids. It worked out for the friends, it did not work out for her.

Her fall semester was pretty rough in the friend category because her dorm hall wasn't a great source of friends as her RA is pretty MIA and many girls on her hall are reclusive and a number of them live locally and go home on the weekends or visit boyfriends elsewhere. She was also not in a lecture of under 100 kids and most were close to or over 200. So the friend group she has was hard fought and cobbled together through girls she met at clubs, the dining hall, etc. The thought of losing touch with these fledgling relationships is really hard for her to think about. And it seems like she might as they'll all be joining different houses and my daughter will likely not. She knows that there is a big university out there (35K kids!) and she'll dig deep and keep trying but she's just bummed about this all.

[Anonymous]

Tonight they will submit a ranking again. Tomorrow morning, they will get their sisterhood party invitation schedule. There are a maximum of seven sororities for each girl. If they had fewer than seven for philanthropy, obviously they will still have fewer than seven for the next round. On Monday night, they will submit rankings again for preference round. They can only attend a maximum of two. Some girls will get one. I suppose it is possible that some girls will also get zero. Based on the timing of the other releases, I would expect their preference schedule to come out about an hour to an hour and a half before they have to be there. I believe that is this weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems like an odd thing for a parent to be involved in. You know she’s an adult right?

I hate this argument.

Yes, she's an adult, albeit a very young one. (If she's a college freshman, she's been an adult in the legal sense for a year, at most. Her frontal lobe is barely finished developing.)

It's not like people wake up the morning of their 18th birthday with the mind of a 45yo. She's still a teenager, who feels teenage emotions and needs her mom when things get a bit haywire.

OP is a good mom for caring about her kid and wanting to support her, even if it's something as stupid and pointless as sorority rush.

+1

You are missing what role and job is yours as a parent. You can care about and love your child, without navigating the social minutiae her. Getting into nitty gritty of details of pledging and social group is taking over the daughter’s work. It’s her job to navigate this stuff. Part of frontal lobe development takes time, but a huge part is working through different situations. Trust she can do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tonight they will submit a ranking again. Tomorrow morning, they will get their sisterhood party invitation schedule. There are a maximum of seven sororities for each girl. If they had fewer than seven for philanthropy, obviously they will still have fewer than seven for the next round. On Monday night, they will submit rankings again for preference round. They can only attend a maximum of two. Some girls will get one. I suppose it is possible that some girls will also get zero. Based on the timing of the other releases, I would expect their preference schedule to come out about an hour to an hour and a half before they have to be there. I believe that is this weekend.

Why do you know all this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she just wants friends and a community, what's wrong with the "lowest tier" houses? If all she wants is friends and a community, why would she care about the presumed prestige of a sorority? For that matter, if all she wants is friends and a community, why rush at all? There are many other ways to make friends.

Exactly. Any sorority will be a community for her. She doesn't need to be a snob about it.

You were so kind until that last sentence. It doesn’t meant the girl’s a snob if she didn’t feel a connection to one of those communities that offers her a a bid.

Calling a group of girls "lower tier" is very different from saying "she didn't feel a connection" to them. She is absolutely being a snob. Or maybe mommy is the one categorizing sororities, in which case mommy is the snob.

NP but not-necessarily. It’s by definition a hierarchical system that issues number of invitations each round based on how “desirable” the membership in the houses are to the potential new members seeking to join. The higher the percentage of girls ranking a house as their number one choice, the fewer invitations that house can issue each round so that they aren’t stringing girls along all week only to drop them all at the end. Top tier is another way to say “house most desired by the greatest number of PNMs” and Bottom tier is house least desired by the greatest number of PNMs.
It’s just a statistical fact, but it feels like “snobbery” because the PNMs can’t join more than one house and they must make a choice. When a huge number of girls are all choosing the same house as their ideal number one, it is referred to as the top choice or top tier.
You can call it something else but it is just what it is.
People have preferences and it doesn’t mean that the girls who join the house least preferred by the pNMs are not nice, sweet, attractive, friendly girls. They could still be all of those things. But for whatever reason other houses are preferred by a greater percentage of the girls who are looking to join.
Some girls only want to join a house that a high percentage of girls also want to join. Others don’t mind being in a group that is not at the top of the preference order.
If your DD just wants to have a group to hang with who also want to hang with her, she will be happy in the “bottom tier” group. But most 18-20 year olds are not that secure or confident enough to not care what other people think, and they want to join a group that others also place a high preference for.

You are missing the major point - why is it that certain houses are preferred by more girls?