Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, OP, let’s talk. Why would you want to be part of something that is literally exclusive, literally designed to exclude people and keep people out?

If you go back into the history of sororities, if you read up on it, you’ll know that they deliberately excluded people of color, Catholics, women whose parents were divorced, and on and on. Today’s sororities continue that kind of “Our Kind of People” culture, just in different ways…

Well at my kids spritz they don't exclude others (my kid is the one who rushed to get better housing and because all their friends were). There is a trans member and several L I my kids sorority. They are very open minded. Then again they are at a division 3 school so it's not a typical experience

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

I do agree with the not wanting to pay for friends. When I att need college rush was fall literally during new student week before clssses had begun. Kids had 2 days on campus then bam! Rush started. So no chance for people to make their own friends and those that had started ended up going different ways because they ended up in different sororities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both my kids are in frats for primarily what I would call practical reasons.

Kid 1 is at a city school where you have to live off campus jr and sr year and the frat is much cheaper (and well located) than any other housing option by like 50%.

Kid 2 for fairly similar reasons but mainly that the frat house is equivalent price but so much nicer and with much better food than normal on campus housing.

They like the friends they are making and for one it is a “top” house which hopefully provides strong networking. They are at schools where the parties aren’t really exclusive for anyone or any house…literally anyone at the school can attend (except for their own formals) and do.

This is what my kids are seeking. Lowers the stakes - not an all-or-nothing decision re parties and their social lives.

Are you willing to share the schools? It would help those of with kids who are researching options. Thx.

Any schools where greek life isn't dominat (outside the Big10, SEC, ACC, etc). Also any school where greek life is only 20-30% of students. My kid is at one where they rushed simply for better housing sophomore year. And because all of their friends were going to rush, so they also wouldnt' have roommates for sophomore year if they didn't. They are in one where they knew most of the girls before rushing, because it's the "dance sorority" on campus (where 75%+ of the dancers end up if rushing), so they didn't have to conform, they just ended up where they would end up if they made friends on their own (like they had). My kid has the rush process but has enjoyed the living in the sorority soph year and the activities. But they can also go to any frat party, it's not exclusive at their school, so they didn't have to rush

DP. Being in the ACC doesn't necessarily mean your school is Greek-dominant. Virginia Tech is only 20% Greek - the vast majority of students are not. Same with UNC. BC is even less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, OP, let’s talk. Why would you want to be part of something that is literally exclusive, literally designed to exclude people and keep people out?

If you go back into the history of sororities, if you read up on it, you’ll know that they deliberately excluded people of color, Catholics, women whose parents were divorced, and on and on. Today’s sororities continue that kind of “Our Kind of People” culture, just in different ways…

It's no more exclusive than college itself, or private high school, etc. They ALL did that. So should we not send our kids to college or private high school?

nope--very different. You get into college off your merits.

Greek system is exclusionary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I find hilarious are the posters calling southern sorority girls “hoes, slutty,” etc when they see those dance videos… but when MIT sorority girls put out exact the same kind of dance videos, they’re praised. DCUM’s finest never disappoint.

+100
Yep. Apparently, white sorority girls doing dances are slutty, while black/hispanic/Asian sorority girls doing dances are brilliant, cool, fun, and amazing!

This…was not their point, and you moved so quickly to racism when it wasn’t needed or warranted.

It was exactly their point. The only difference between the MIT sorority video and the other videos was race. That's it.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think GenZ values align with the Greek model. They seem to be very into inclusion or appearing to be inclusive, fluidity, shout down body toxic stuff and are not big drinkers. I’m not sure that Greek life will survive beyond the southern schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They shouldn’t even bother having PNM rank their choices. They’re just told that if you only get a bid from a house that you didn’t click with, you just don’t realize that’s where you “belong”. Then the old women who still run these things wipe their hands of it and blame the kid.

Imagine speed dating and being interested 8 of the 10 men, but the only one who wanted a second date was one of two where conversation fell flat. And then being told “it’s what you deserve, take it or you’re just a spoiled brat”. That’s what happens.

You can try to spin it however you like, but ultimately is about ranking human beings and breaking the rules (dirty rush).

Yea well, so are a lot of things. Time to put on your big girl pants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the vast majority of non-Greek parents are relieved their kid is not pursuing it, not jealous. Whether it's based in current reality or not: alcohol poisoning, being forced to drink/eat/clean weird shit, date rape, circling cellulite/fat with a marker, etc, no thanks. I will support my kid if they end up being interested, and encourage healthy choices, but will also be relieved, happy if they are uninterested.

None of this happened with my two Greek girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the vast majority of non-Greek parents are relieved their kid is not pursuing it, not jealous. Whether it's based in current reality or not: alcohol poisoning, being forced to drink/eat/clean weird shit, date rape, circling cellulite/fat with a marker, etc, no thanks. I will support my kid if they end up being interested, and encourage healthy choices, but will also be relieved, happy if they are uninterested.

+1000

my sentiments exactly. it's pure relief.

Because your preconceptions, like hers, are off base.

[Anonymous]

What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I said I made lifelong friends from my time in a house, but found it ultimately limiting. You can call that vitriol and a lack of confidence if you want to. I have enough confidence not to get worked up about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I said I made lifelong friends from my time in a house, but found it ultimately limiting. You can call that vitriol and a lack of confidence if you want to. I have enough confidence not to get worked up about it

So because that's how you found it, that means everyone should feel the same way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I said I made lifelong friends from my time in a house, but found it ultimately limiting. You can call that vitriol and a lack of confidence if you want to. I have enough confidence not to get worked up about it

So because that's how you found it, that means everyone should feel the same way?

Good thing I never said that. I was responding to the “rational discussion” idea. Those are my thoughts. Hope your kids love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a thread. Are you all so insecure in how you've parented and in the kids that you've raised that you can't let your kids make their own choices without judging other kids and other parents?

We knew nothing about Greek before our oldest went to UVA. Neither did she. All we knew was that UVA was a great school, it was in state tuition, she was happy to go there, and it had a Greek system.

I don't remember how we reacted when she decided to rush, but I do remember her stories about the process. She went into the whole thing very open minded and very confident -- she just figured she'd be herself, as she always has been, and see where the chips fell. More than anything else, she has a good sense of humor and was looking to connect with other girls who were the same way. So she didn't hold back, not even a little, and in the end got a bid to a nice sorority with good and smart girls, had a great four years, and has stayed friends with them. They've all become happy, successful, well rounded, independent, open-minded women.

Had she not gotten a bid, trust me -- she would have survived.

I don't understand what everyone's problem is. If you've raised your kid right for the first 18 years, you need to trust them to make their own decisions when they get to college, and not deride other kids who make different ones. If you're not doing that, you've either raised kids who aren't confident, or you're not confident in either them or yourself, and that's not good.

To me, the vitriol and defensiveness that I'm seeing here is really just a mask for lack of confidence.

I said I made lifelong friends from my time in a house, but found it ultimately limiting. You can call that vitriol and a lack of confidence if you want to. I have enough confidence not to get worked up about it

So because that's how you found it, that means everyone should feel the same way?

Good thing I never said that. I was responding to the “rational discussion” idea. Those are my thoughts. Hope your kids love it.

But the whole "I found it limiting" would have as much to do with you as the system, right? For example, my Greek kid had friends both in and out of her house and was a bridesmaid years later in her first year roommate's wedding -- who never even rushed.

Sounds like you approached it as something that confined you. Not everyone does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

I do agree with the not wanting to pay for friends. When I att need college rush was fall literally during new student week before clssses had begun. Kids had 2 days on campus then bam! Rush started. So no chance for people to make their own friends and those that had started ended up going different ways because they ended up in different sororities

Someone explain “paying for friends”. The phrase is thrown around all the time and makes little sense.

Is joining any organization where you pay dues (a pool club, a running club, a rec softball team, etc.) and receive a product in return “paying for friends”?

My kid saves money with their fraternity fees compared to the other room & board options…how is that “paying for friends”?