I Miss Being In Love

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you miss being young.

OP here — Do you seriously associate trying new things, making an effort to engage with others, and staying in shape exclusively with being young? That’s very depressing.

From reading these responses, it really seems that some people believe that youth up to one’s 20s are for fun and making an effort at life, and then rest of life should be stagnant drudgery. Or maybe some people perceive effort as something you expend to attract a mate and then once you’ve locked them down, you can enjoy just sitting back and doing the bare minimum throughout the rest of life? For me, working out, trying new activities, reading up on topics I don’t know about, learning new languages, traveling, befriending different types of people, taking my career in new directions, and just exploring life weren’t things I was doing to attract someone. That’s really how I want to live single or married.

I like to read but I am a low-key introverted person and my husband is an extrovert. Reading your posts here, if you were my spouse I think I would shut down the way your spouse has shut down. It seems like you may be the type of person who exhausts your partner. There is no reason you can’t do all the things you list above by yourself and still accept your spouse. Being into 30 million things does not make you a better person than your spouse, which you seem to believe.

This is just the vibe I am getting, it’s not an excuse for your spouse to let himself go or refuse to treat his depression. People are responsible for themselves.

I don’t need my spouse to do every or even most things on my list with me. I do need a spouse who does more than shuffle from work to chores to the couch, with a two-minute quickie every now and then. Even just playing tennis together on the weekends or having one date night a week, but I definitely need someone who wants to get out of the house and spend time with me. That is who he portrayed himself as to get married to me.

Have you said to him what you wrote above? In those words? "You are not meeting my needs and I am extremely unhappy in this marriage. Here's why...." with what you typed above. Then schedule something for this weekend, set up a babysitter and tell him it's happening. I know, the work is all on you, but you may have to be very blunt, tell him you are considering leaving, and then say that activity whatever is happening. Then tell him when the next date night or tennis outing is, and he has to arrange it. He sounds so locked into his routine, and he likely thinks that because sex happens, all is OK, that you will have to take initiative to shake him out of it and will have to do more than say "I'd like us to try..." It may take, "I need to tell you that our life together makes me profoundly unhappy."

He's not going to start coming up with things on his own. Tell him you think he "shuffles from work to chores to the couch." He likely has no idea that that is so upsetting for you and he needs to know.

OP here — I have said literally all of the words I have written in this thread and more. I have even written him long emails and we have had many, many, many long discussions in person. He absolutely knows how I feel, what I need, and what I’m lacking because I have left him with no doubt at all. There have been times in the past when he has said we need to make changes only to slip right back into doing nothing. When I hired babysitters, he complained that they were weird or looked at him funny, and claimed that the kids wouldn’t be comfortable with them. When I planned date nights, he found excuses to cancel the last minute or spent the whole date irritable and looking at his phone. He claims he doesn’t like the gym because it’s too noisy and he won’t use the equipment we have at home because it’s not calibrated quite right. Increasingly, in the past couple of years, he has given up the pretense that he wants to try and is just being honest that he has nothing more for me. He thinks I need to become “content.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op,

I divorced a similar type of guy. He was overweight (but so was I), and focused primarily on working long hours, spending time in his man cave, listening to records, and going to sleep at 8pm to wake up at 2am and work looong hours. We grew apart. I wanted to go on walks with our dog (never did that), 5k runs (he hates running due to a high resting heart rate), play tennis (he had zero interest).

Now that I’m divorced, I’m dating a guy that enjoys playing tennis, going to the gym together, cooking together, going on trips. He’s not as intellectual as ex DH but is up for doing things and being more adventurous (although not *that adventurous).

So in a way, things improved… but I really miss having a family. I don’t miss ex DH that much because he cheated on me… I don’t miss his workaholic lifestyle, I don’t miss feeling lonely in marriage… but dating is one thing, and having a family is so much harder. So if you did get a divorce, you’d likely find lots of amazing guys to date… but to trust them, to build a future with them, to have stability and settle down with them is entirely different.

I’m so sympathetic for what you are going through… but the grass isn’t that much greener. There’s patches of green but patches of brown, dead grass too.

OP here — I don’t think I’d want to remarry. This marriage and all the marriages I’ve seen around me make me very hesitant to ever again settle down with a man. My ideal situation would be a man who loves to travel, try new things, and explore great sex, but has his own place and keeps his drama to himself. I’d be back on the market in a second if he got lazy in bed, started watching sports at dinner instead of talking, started overeating because he’s thought he had me locked down and didn’t need to look nice anymore etc. DH and I would be so done if not for the kids and the effort divorce requires, so I’m never again going to let another man tie me down like this.

Pp here. I’m responding to what you said here: “ DH and I would be so done if not for the kids and the effort divorce requires, so I’m never again going to let another man tie me down like this.”

Happiness isn’t just about traveling, great sex, going to nice restaurants, doing a HIIT workout. Your happiness is innately connected to your children’s happiness. If they are unhappy, you’ll be unhappy too. What you describe as an ideal situation is compartmentalization— you don’t want to get remarried, you want to have this spicy relationship, but you ultimately don’t want to share your life with another person, carry their burdens, and so forth. You seem to want the first stage of a romantic relationship, which is entirely ego driven, and not the more mundane aspect of a loving and mature and sacrificial relationship.

My ex DH left me for the very same thing - he fell in love with a woman that excited him in ways I did not. They connected on all things music, Twitter, concerts and so forth. So much limerance and so little reality. Ex DH is now miserable because he chased that feeling of being “in love” while never wanting to marry his affair partner. He didn’t want to share his life with her. He just wanted the fun parts. She can handle the Costco runs and recalcitrant kids on her own.

Look, I feel for you. You are not in a good place and your husband is not meeting your needs. But you have a family, and that’s priceless. Try everything in your power to communicate your wants and needs. Don’t give up just yet. And if he truly doesn’t love you and doesn’t give a shit about how you feel, then you’ll feel better about a divorce even though it’ll hurt the kids in the short term.

All I’m saying is… romantic or limerant love is ego driven. True love is sacrificial and selfless. Think about what you really want 5 or 10 years from now. Romantic love fades for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you miss being young.

OP here — Do you seriously associate trying new things, making an effort to engage with others, and staying in shape exclusively with being young? That’s very depressing.

From reading these responses, it really seems that some people believe that youth up to one’s 20s are for fun and making an effort at life, and then rest of life should be stagnant drudgery. Or maybe some people perceive effort as something you expend to attract a mate and then once you’ve locked them down, you can enjoy just sitting back and doing the bare minimum throughout the rest of life? For me, working out, trying new activities, reading up on topics I don’t know about, learning new languages, traveling, befriending different types of people, taking my career in new directions, and just exploring life weren’t things I was doing to attract someone. That’s really how I want to live single or married.

I like to read but I am a low-key introverted person and my husband is an extrovert. Reading your posts here, if you were my spouse I think I would shut down the way your spouse has shut down. It seems like you may be the type of person who exhausts your partner. There is no reason you can’t do all the things you list above by yourself and still accept your spouse. Being into 30 million things does not make you a better person than your spouse, which you seem to believe.

This is just the vibe I am getting, it’s not an excuse for your spouse to let himself go or refuse to treat his depression. People are responsible for themselves.

I don’t need my spouse to do every or even most things on my list with me. I do need a spouse who does more than shuffle from work to chores to the couch, with a two-minute quickie every now and then. Even just playing tennis together on the weekends or having one date night a week, but I definitely need someone who wants to get out of the house and spend time with me. That is who he portrayed himself as to get married to me.

Have you said to him what you wrote above? In those words? "You are not meeting my needs and I am extremely unhappy in this marriage. Here's why...." with what you typed above. Then schedule something for this weekend, set up a babysitter and tell him it's happening. I know, the work is all on you, but you may have to be very blunt, tell him you are considering leaving, and then say that activity whatever is happening. Then tell him when the next date night or tennis outing is, and he has to arrange it. He sounds so locked into his routine, and he likely thinks that because sex happens, all is OK, that you will have to take initiative to shake him out of it and will have to do more than say "I'd like us to try..." It may take, "I need to tell you that our life together makes me profoundly unhappy."

He's not going to start coming up with things on his own. Tell him you think he "shuffles from work to chores to the couch." He likely has no idea that that is so upsetting for you and he needs to know.

Agree with this poster.

Have a serious talk with him. The descriptions of your bedroom life make me shudder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, I'll say that up front. But this jumped out at me from your initial post:

He has a depression diagnosis but won’t take meds or go to therapy. He’s content just existing

I'm betting others must have picked up on that but I'll say: Being "content just existing" can be fairly typical of some people with depression. Routine and blandness can be comforting and predictable. What you and I might interpret as being stuck in a terrible, boring rut may be, to him, a way to have control over his day to day life; when someone has depression or other mental issues, they often feel completely out of control inside, and so they control what they CAN control -- for instance, being in a very set routine and numbing themselves with what works for them (like too much food and too much TV). You and I know that meds plus plenty of exercise can actually help a lot, but if your DH's work-home-eat-TV routine is his way of living so he doesn't have to feel or face his depression, it's going to be hard to break him out of that.

But OP, if you once loved him enough to marry and have kids with him, have you considered doubling down on trying to get him real help for the depression? I know someone will come to shout, "You cannot make someone else get treatment!" and that's true; however, if my DH were in that kind of rut AND had a clear diagnosis for which he wasn't getting treatment, I would make treatment a non-negotiable issue. Have you told him -- not hinted, not suggested more activities, just told him very clearly -- that you are feeling so desperate? I would, and then I would tell him that he is sick and not getting treatment. He'd get treatment for a physical illness, right? He needs treatment for depression.

That may make a real difference, but you will likely have to push the issue hard. I know, you should not HAVE to do that, but if he is depressed, he may not see any way out of that hole. It can be almost impossible for some depressed people to pick up a phone, make an appointment, go online, see what their insurance offers, etc. That is tough on the spouses but the alternatives for you are push him to get treated (which initially may end up with you having to make and get him to appointments, and be the "mean mom" to him re: meds etc.), or continue to "work on you" and stil be unhappy, or leave and break up the home. If you leave, be aware: He will get custody, probably 50/50, and your kids will spend half their lives with an untreated, depressed dad without you there to mitigate that. I'd at least try taking some focus off myself temporarily and putting it on his depression. Maybe the rut is not all about depression but you won't know unless you push him and get him to TRY help.

One note -- if he says "But I don't feel sad or blue, I'm not depressed" -- Depression does not always manifest as "feeling sad." It can manifest as just being detached, one-note, bland. If you arent' seeing sadness or he says he doesn't feel it, that does not mean he's not depressed.

OP here — Your comment makes me want to cry, because if he would admit that he actually has a problem, I would move mountains for him. He has been diagnosed with depression by two different doctors, including a primary care physician, who proactively brought up the topic with him because of the flat affect the doctor noticed.
DH immediately stopped seeing that doctor. He insists the diagnoses are wrong. I spent years fighting that out with him and I lost. It doesn’t help that his parents mistrust mental healthcare and insist he’s “fine.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a divorced dad currently in therapy. I have learned so much about what women really want and I will be honest I don’t think o will ever be in a relationship again. Women think that what they want from us is simple, but the reality is that it’s not so simple. Keeping a woman happy is hard, really hard. I tip my hat off to men who are doing it.

The corollary to this is so many women come to believe their man/relationship is the source of their unhappiness. Which is rarely the case.

A burping, farting, unhealthy man who takes no pleasure in pleasing his wife in bed or in any activities, who he vowed to cherish? Come on, of course it’s a huge and valid source of unhappiness.

So, I see you are one of those women making this mistake.

You'll see.

He's not the source of your unhappiness. That comes from within. I realize it's a lot easier to blame others that take personal responsibility for your own mental health. But, no, he doesn't owe you that "in love" feeling from the honeymoon phase of your relationship. OP is bored, etc. Classic midlife crisis. At least she knows the grass isn't greener, but a lot of women get to this phase (and it IS a phase), get "bored," look around, decide their husband is the source, and make radical changes in their lives (i.e. divorce). And then are shocked to find out they're not happier, long term. I mean, a few are, certainly. But they're usually better about taking responsibility for their own happiness rather than depending on someone else to bring them happiness (be it a husband, children, whatever).

OP here — Do you think it’s possible for a spouse to make a person unhappy or is your take that unhappiness always from within regardless of what the spouse is like?

By the way, I actually believe the grass would be greener elsewhere. DH sets a very low bar that wouldn’t be hard to exceed. I have my own money and nest egg from years of working and careful decisions, so I wouldn’t end up impoverished after divorce. The impact on my children is what’s keeping me here.

I think it's possible that a disconnected marriage can contribute to your unhappiness, but I also think it's foolish to place the entire blame on that person because if you think if you just get away from that person, all will be well. YOU have contributed to the dynamic in some ways, too. Reading your other posts, you seem to have romanticized what it would be like to be on your own -- which is a normal fantasy. But the reality is a lot messier.

As another pp said, yeah, you can probably find someone new to bang and travel with. And that probably will be an improvement in your life in some ways. However, your old life doesn't go completely away, and the issues with the kids, etc. will manifest itself for years in psychological misery in ways you can't possibly anticipate.

As for all that money you have saved, just remember he'll get half in a divorce.

OP here — he wouldn’t get half because we are equally matched financially. Half of his and half of mine leaves us in the same position. I’m fortunate that financial ruin is not a concern here.

I think that, romantically, divorced life for me would be like what single life was like. I had no plans to get married. I really enjoyed having an active life in which I worked hard and made a lot of effort in my personal life to learn and do interesting things. I dated great guys, but didn’t feel the urge to make things forever. I honestly wouldn’t have married my husband if he hadn’t bent over backwards to woo me and really push the issue of marriage. In getting married, he made the case that I would be getting a partner in crime — someone to share the world with and raise cute kids with. He pretended to love volunteering the way I did (turns out he hates being around underprivileged people), to enjoy traveling, to enjoy picking up new skills here and there. He even pretended to love running, but he hasn’t gone for a single run since our first child was born. I guess he thought I would just suck it up once we are married and he had me stuck with kids. And I guess he was right because I’m still here, aren’t I? The plan worked.

I’d be perfectly happy to coparent our children with him, share custody, and never again settle down with a man. I think he’d be a very resentful coparent though and our kids would suffer in the divorce.

Spend some time on the threads here where women are lamenting how awful dating can be these days. Be sure before you divorce that you are going to be content being a coparent and not having a significant other for the travel, volunteering, running, etc. Sex for sex's sake is easy to find; a man who'll want an actual relationship may be a much more difficult task. Not impossible, but some women seem to focus so hard on finding that next relationship which will be what their marriage wasn't, and then they're still unhappy, just unhappy and single with kids.

+1000. There isn’t this population of attractive, fit, emotionally stable, financially successful, well adjusted, well traveled men just waiting to find a great woman to date. Everyone in their 40s has baggage of some sort. And- divorced men in their 40s are usually cheaters, addicts, or f*ed up in some way. Otherwise they would still be married. You’ll end up swapping your ex’s baggage for another man’s baggage. You aren’t in your 20s. Dating older men means they’ll have some drama too, and baggage. It’s not this clean break. I know a lot of educated and successful women who have had zero luck finding an amazing guy post divorce. He either has baby mama drama, doesn’t want to be monogamous, didn’t recover from his past divorce, has some kind of addiction, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, this guy sounds like a dud to me and I think OP could do much better. I get divorce isn’t a picnic and neither is dating in your 40’s, but it’s depressing to see so many urging her to settle so much.

She already settled when she married him; the question now is how committed both of them are to their vows- for better and for worse, remember? Marriage isn’t a game, your kids’ lives aren’t a game. It’s not fair but life’s not fair and either she helps DH get out of his funk or she fails in her marriage.

Marriage isn’t a suicide pact either.

I almost never think this, but Op wouldn’t get so much sympathy if she were a man posting about sick he is of his dumpy wife who is bad at sex and unwilling to try new things.

Ignores him to play on her phone, has disgusting personal habits, won't have a conversation about sex, won't get marital therapy, has untreated depression? They would get sympathy. There might be more questions about whether his wife is exhausted from doing all the housework and childcare, but no one would be saying "you'll never do better than her."

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, I'll say that up front. But this jumped out at me from your initial post:

He has a depression diagnosis but won’t take meds or go to therapy. He’s content just existing

I'm betting others must have picked up on that but I'll say: Being "content just existing" can be fairly typical of some people with depression. Routine and blandness can be comforting and predictable. What you and I might interpret as being stuck in a terrible, boring rut may be, to him, a way to have control over his day to day life; when someone has depression or other mental issues, they often feel completely out of control inside, and so they control what they CAN control -- for instance, being in a very set routine and numbing themselves with what works for them (like too much food and too much TV). You and I know that meds plus plenty of exercise can actually help a lot, but if your DH's work-home-eat-TV routine is his way of living so he doesn't have to feel or face his depression, it's going to be hard to break him out of that.

But OP, if you once loved him enough to marry and have kids with him, have you considered doubling down on trying to get him real help for the depression? I know someone will come to shout, "You cannot make someone else get treatment!" and that's true; however, if my DH were in that kind of rut AND had a clear diagnosis for which he wasn't getting treatment, I would make treatment a non-negotiable issue. Have you told him -- not hinted, not suggested more activities, just told him very clearly -- that you are feeling so desperate? I would, and then I would tell him that he is sick and not getting treatment. He'd get treatment for a physical illness, right? He needs treatment for depression.

That may make a real difference, but you will likely have to push the issue hard. I know, you should not HAVE to do that, but if he is depressed, he may not see any way out of that hole. It can be almost impossible for some depressed people to pick up a phone, make an appointment, go online, see what their insurance offers, etc. That is tough on the spouses but the alternatives for you are push him to get treated (which initially may end up with you having to make and get him to appointments, and be the "mean mom" to him re: meds etc.), or continue to "work on you" and stil be unhappy, or leave and break up the home. If you leave, be aware: He will get custody, probably 50/50, and your kids will spend half their lives with an untreated, depressed dad without you there to mitigate that. I'd at least try taking some focus off myself temporarily and putting it on his depression. Maybe the rut is not all about depression but you won't know unless you push him and get him to TRY help.

One note -- if he says "But I don't feel sad or blue, I'm not depressed" -- Depression does not always manifest as "feeling sad." It can manifest as just being detached, one-note, bland. If you arent' seeing sadness or he says he doesn't feel it, that does not mean he's not depressed.

Good advice here. OP, what's descibed above would be my last-ditch effort before moving on to divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the negative side, he’s overweight (I’m very fit), can be VERY argumentative and complaining, his family is awful to me (interracial couple), and he’s honestly bad in bed (with no improvement despite years of feedback). He also has gross habits — the type of guy who farts, picks his nose, and burps openly. Overall, it’s not perfect, but I can’t make a case for blowing up our lives by leaving.

So you're going to stay with him forever or leave when the kids launch?

OP here — I used to fantasize all the time about leaving when the kids are in college, but now I try not to think about it. Our youngest won’t be in college for 8 years and the thought of 8 more years of this makes me want to step into traffic. I’m so lonely.

If you leave you will probably be able to find good sex partners but probably not within a monogamous, LTR. I would think long and hard about what you actually want.

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m going to disagree with the people saying you should essentially be happy with the devil you know (figure of speech, I don’t think your husband is the devil).

But I was in a similar situation. I stayed and made peace with his flaws and, guess what? He still blew up our lives and I was forced to divorce.

If you’re fit, attractive, sex-positive, and fun—you’ll have no problem finding casual dates and probably won’t have a problem finding a boyfriend. Doesn’t matter if you’re near 40 and have kids. I speak from experience.

And I think it’s awful your husband thinks you should just “be content.”

Go be free.

[Anonymous]

I think you’ll be happier when you start dating, but the sadness will kick in when the guys you date end up disappointing you, or when you see your kids struggle with divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you’ll be happier when you start dating, but the sadness will kick in when the guys you date end up disappointing you, or when you see your kids struggle with divorce.

Counterpoint: mom has tried for years now. The kids also deserve a happy and vibrant mother, especially if they have a depressed father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you’ll be happier when you start dating, but the sadness will kick in when the guys you date end up disappointing you, or when you see your kids struggle with divorce.

Counterpoint: mom has tried for years now. The kids also deserve a happy and vibrant mother, especially if they have a depressed father.

Yes but the key point, as several have now mentioned, is whether she can envision being happy and vibrant without another long-term partner. It's a risk she needs to decide whether she's willing to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure how you can remain married to this guy. As a man I’ll say stay married. But 99% of women will tell you to divorce him. I’m really starting to wonder whether women should marry men at all. Don’t get me wrong there are men who get it and keep their wives very happy. However, it just seems to me women want to live fulfilling lives and many men are just happy with boring routines. I’m not a psychologist but I wonder whether this has anything to do with how men and women differ.

Not OP, and significantly happier in my marriage than OP is, but as a woman married to a man, this comment made me both guffaw and tear up a little. Yes! Women want to live fulfilling lives. Why do so many men not (1) also want this, or (2) understand that effort is involved in making it happen? A mystery for the ages.

There are men who want interesting and fulfilling lives. But those men tend not to make good partners. When I dated in my twenties and early thirties I always found that it was one or the other. I met men who were great company, and men who wanted to get married after six months and live a life like OP’s husband.

For women, it doesn’t seem to be an either/or thing.

This is so true. I have been back dating for last 5 year and the most interesting men are the ones who love to travel and try new things but they do not wish to be tied down and monogamous.

[Anonymous]

It never ceases to amaze me when there is a thread posted like this and so many basically respond with something along the lines of “this is life-learn to live with it”. You guys realize we only have one life right? Who the heck wants to be miserable?

For the record, I am staying in my non filling marriage until my youngest goes to college in a few years. My kids are happy and I don’t want to uproot their lives when I have plenty of friends and interests and a great job to distract me. But I cannot tell you how excited I am to have my freedom soon. But I’m not willing to deal with custody stuff and the kids having to be back and forth. I am willing to wait a few years for it to be a simpler transition for everyone. That being said-I fantasize about how my life will change all the time.

Nobody deserves to be miserable, OP. You will be happier and HE will be happier because he can just be happy go he is with someone forcing him to do stuff he doesn’t want to do. All the posters suggesting you have a conversation with him where you basically say “we do this or I’m leaving” don’t seem to understand what it feels like when someone does something because they are being forced rather than because they want to. Nobody wants that.

OP-you deserve happiness. We all do. And I’m so sick of the commentary about how spouses can’t make you unhappy. They most certainly can.

[Anonymous]

I think you need to threaten to separate unless he treats his depression. Having a depressed parent is not healthy for your kids, either.