Should I excuse DH from nighttime duties?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amount of bickering on this thread is absurd.

Have a discussion together (really, many ongoing discussions) and figure out what works for your family. For mine, it didn't make sense for both parents to be up all night and end up exhausted together. I (mom) do the overnight wakings, and dh wakes up early with the kids. That might mean as early as 4/5am for a baby or young toddler. This pattern continued naturally as kids became toddlers/preschoolers. It works best for our sleep patterns & the family's needs. Of course, it's flexible and of course we'll both help if either needs back-up for any reason.

There is no need that the dh MUST wake up overnight, basically to prove a point about equal partnership, if it's not the right choice for your family.

If your dh did mornings with your kid for years then he was a key part of the night shift.

I feel like a lot of posters are hung up on the details here. Does it matter really if you force your dh to wake up and change a diaper so you’re sharing equally in the burden? No specifically that does not matter. But many many many many many women know what it feels like to be the varsity parent. To be the one who knows what to do who can calm the baby easily blah blah blah. And you become this way by taking on an outsized percentage of the work in infancy. This starts a cycle that simply grows more defined and strong the longer it’s allowed to go on.

So whatever quibble about the fine print here. But if mom takes on everything in infancy it will, perhaps not always but more often than not, lead to a cycle of inequity in parenting that will have an erosive effect on the marriage and parent child relationship. You can yammer on about your specific life situation and how it does or does not conform precisely to this argument or you can head on over to the relationships forum and read all about the versions of yourself 10 years on who have to do everything and who stopped having sex with the husbands they hate. Work on some level of egalitarian parenting for your marriage and, frequently overlooked, for your kids.

All of this. It’s not about forcing the dad to be tired as a way of keeping things even.

[Anonymous]

I am curious about the ages of the children of commenters on here. When my kids were little I would have said OP’s husband should be able to sleep, obviously! Now that I have a teenager, I feel very differently. My husband is great but it’s true that little things like night feedings start a pattern. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s just that people usually default to the idea that the person who has more experience with something should be the one to do it.

But obviously it’s a personal decision and different things work for different families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amount of bickering on this thread is absurd.

Have a discussion together (really, many ongoing discussions) and figure out what works for your family. For mine, it didn't make sense for both parents to be up all night and end up exhausted together. I (mom) do the overnight wakings, and dh wakes up early with the kids. That might mean as early as 4/5am for a baby or young toddler. This pattern continued naturally as kids became toddlers/preschoolers. It works best for our sleep patterns & the family's needs. Of course, it's flexible and of course we'll both help if either needs back-up for any reason.

There is no need that the dh MUST wake up overnight, basically to prove a point about equal partnership, if it's not the right choice for your family.

If your dh did mornings with your kid for years then he was a key part of the night shift.

I feel like a lot of posters are hung up on the details here. Does it matter really if you force your dh to wake up and change a diaper so you’re sharing equally in the burden? No specifically that does not matter. But many many many many many women know what it feels like to be the varsity parent. To be the one who knows what to do who can calm the baby easily blah blah blah. And you become this way by taking on an outsized percentage of the work in infancy. This starts a cycle that simply grows more defined and strong the longer it’s allowed to go on.

So whatever quibble about the fine print here. But if mom takes on everything in infancy it will, perhaps not always but more often than not, lead to a cycle of inequity in parenting that will have an erosive effect on the marriage and parent child relationship. You can yammer on about your specific life situation and how it does or does not conform precisely to this argument or you can head on over to the relationships forum and read all about the versions of yourself 10 years on who have to do everything and who stopped having sex with the husbands they hate. Work on some level of egalitarian parenting for your marriage and, frequently overlooked, for your kids.

All of this. It’s not about forcing the dad to be tired as a way of keeping things even.

+1. To both of you, who are actually saying similar things.

FWIW, for any individual waking, I don't think it makes sense for two people to be up at the same time. Pump a bottle for him to give, and get a glorious long stretch of sleep for yourself at some point during the night/early am. It is critical to functioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am curious about the ages of the children of commenters on here. When my kids were little I would have said OP’s husband should be able to sleep, obviously! Now that I have a teenager, I feel very differently. My husband is great but it’s true that little things like night feedings start a pattern. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s just that people usually default to the idea that the person who has more experience with something should be the one to do it.

But obviously it’s a personal decision and different things work for different families.

... Is your teen needing night feedings? I agree people should be aware of patterns, but infancy is unique.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious about the ages of the children of commenters on here. When my kids were little I would have said OP’s husband should be able to sleep, obviously! Now that I have a teenager, I feel very differently. My husband is great but it’s true that little things like night feedings start a pattern. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s just that people usually default to the idea that the person who has more experience with something should be the one to do it.

But obviously it’s a personal decision and different things work for different families.

... Is your teen needing night feedings? I agree people should be aware of patterns, but infancy is unique.

How old are your kids?

[Anonymous]

This is just so dependent on each family. If you had a difficult baby who was up all night and it was really affecting you, but your DH still didn't help you at all, then yea, you have issues that are going to affect your marriage and your kids longterm. If you had a fairly easy newborn and you could handle wake-ups yourself and it worked for your family, then fine!

What's important is you and your DH can communicate about what you each need, and your DH is willing to do what it takes for you to both be happy and healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is just so dependent on each family. If you had a difficult baby who was up all night and it was really affecting you, but your DH still didn't help you at all, then yea, you have issues that are going to affect your marriage and your kids longterm. If you had a fairly easy newborn and you could handle wake-ups yourself and it worked for your family, then fine!

What's important is you and your DH can communicate about what you each need, and your DH is willing to do what it takes for you to both be happy and healthy.

I think this will come across as picking on you but I don't intend that. The bolded is an example of the pernicious ways that a lack of an egalitarian relationship can impact the very way you think and obscure the consequences. Your DH needs to be willing to do what it takes for you both to be happy and healthy. I don't think I have ever read a comment that says 'the marriage only works if mom is willing to do what it takes for her baby and husband to be happy and healthy.' Because there is an assumption that she's doing that. And if she is lacking, it is in caring for her marriage as well as she is caring for her baby.

This sentence is the seed that grows into seeing a dad at the playground and telling him he's being a great dad (why? going to the playground is not an accomplishment! you'd never say that to a mother). Raising small children is hard and stressful. And when people are doing hard things and stressed out, they tend to default to the easiest path. If mom does almost everything for a baby, then she is the easiest path for every single child related thing that comes later. She knows how to soothe quickly so she soothes. She becomes the person the children go to, they will walk right past a dad on the sofa to a mom folding laundry to ask for milk. And because its just easier for her to do it rather then explain to the kid that they have a dad and have them go over and ask their dad and seem like a passive aggressive b, she gets the milk. And it continues, on and on and on. And so mom just knows everything, and can do everything, and so she does everything. Of course this is a generalization and there are a million shades of grey. But it is not hyperbolic to say this starts with that newborn baby crying at 3am. It is factual. THAT is where a mother is born, putting her needs second, being a person the child clings to, learning how to soothe, learning how to keep on soothing and being there even if its not working and showing the baby you're never going to walk away. That crucible is where real mettle is born, and, frankly, it freaking sucks. It is difficult, even with easy babies it is a difficult exhausting time. And when dads don't go through that, they don't get changed in the same fundamental way mom gets changed. Going through hard stuff is what helps us grow and mature and learn, moms who buffer dad's first year just ensure they never have to face that growth. Don't deprive your husbands of being full time dads. Don't deprive yourselves of an equal partner. Don't let logistics determine patterns that have the potential to create a lifetime of resentment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just so dependent on each family. If you had a difficult baby who was up all night and it was really affecting you, but your DH still didn't help you at all, then yea, you have issues that are going to affect your marriage and your kids longterm. If you had a fairly easy newborn and you could handle wake-ups yourself and it worked for your family, then fine!

What's important is you and your DH can communicate about what you each need, and your DH is willing to do what it takes for you to both be happy and healthy.

I think this will come across as picking on you but I don't intend that. The bolded is an example of the pernicious ways that a lack of an egalitarian relationship can impact the very way you think and obscure the consequences. Your DH needs to be willing to do what it takes for you both to be happy and healthy. I don't think I have ever read a comment that says 'the marriage only works if mom is willing to do what it takes for her baby and husband to be happy and healthy.' Because there is an assumption that she's doing that. And if she is lacking, it is in caring for her marriage as well as she is caring for her baby.

This sentence is the seed that grows into seeing a dad at the playground and telling him he's being a great dad (why? going to the playground is not an accomplishment! you'd never say that to a mother). Raising small children is hard and stressful. And when people are doing hard things and stressed out, they tend to default to the easiest path. If mom does almost everything for a baby, then she is the easiest path for every single child related thing that comes later. She knows how to soothe quickly so she soothes. She becomes the person the children go to, they will walk right past a dad on the sofa to a mom folding laundry to ask for milk. And because its just easier for her to do it rather then explain to the kid that they have a dad and have them go over and ask their dad and seem like a passive aggressive b, she gets the milk. And it continues, on and on and on. And so mom just knows everything, and can do everything, and so she does everything. Of course this is a generalization and there are a million shades of grey. But it is not hyperbolic to say this starts with that newborn baby crying at 3am. It is factual. THAT is where a mother is born, putting her needs second, being a person the child clings to, learning how to soothe, learning how to keep on soothing and being there even if its not working and showing the baby you're never going to walk away. That crucible is where real mettle is born, and, frankly, it freaking sucks. It is difficult, even with easy babies it is a difficult exhausting time. And when dads don't go through that, they don't get changed in the same fundamental way mom gets changed. Going through hard stuff is what helps us grow and mature and learn, moms who buffer dad's first year just ensure they never have to face that growth. Don't deprive your husbands of being full time dads. Don't deprive yourselves of an equal partner. Don't let logistics determine patterns that have the potential to create a lifetime of resentment.

Okay but this thread is about DADS and so my comment is about DADS. I’m wondering what is wrong with you and your marriage that you are so obsessed with black and white, strict rules, statistics, etc to figure out how to run your own family.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with that poster. I agree with them. Too many women take on too much in terms of childcare duties (either because they think society expects them to, or they are control freaks, or they are scared of DH’s job).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just so dependent on each family. If you had a difficult baby who was up all night and it was really affecting you, but your DH still didn't help you at all, then yea, you have issues that are going to affect your marriage and your kids longterm. If you had a fairly easy newborn and you could handle wake-ups yourself and it worked for your family, then fine!

What's important is you and your DH can communicate about what you each need, and your DH is willing to do what it takes for you to both be happy and healthy.

I think this will come across as picking on you but I don't intend that. The bolded is an example of the pernicious ways that a lack of an egalitarian relationship can impact the very way you think and obscure the consequences. Your DH needs to be willing to do what it takes for you both to be happy and healthy. I don't think I have ever read a comment that says 'the marriage only works if mom is willing to do what it takes for her baby and husband to be happy and healthy.' Because there is an assumption that she's doing that. And if she is lacking, it is in caring for her marriage as well as she is caring for her baby.

This sentence is the seed that grows into seeing a dad at the playground and telling him he's being a great dad (why? going to the playground is not an accomplishment! you'd never say that to a mother). Raising small children is hard and stressful. And when people are doing hard things and stressed out, they tend to default to the easiest path. If mom does almost everything for a baby, then she is the easiest path for every single child related thing that comes later. She knows how to soothe quickly so she soothes. She becomes the person the children go to, they will walk right past a dad on the sofa to a mom folding laundry to ask for milk. And because its just easier for her to do it rather then explain to the kid that they have a dad and have them go over and ask their dad and seem like a passive aggressive b, she gets the milk. And it continues, on and on and on. And so mom just knows everything, and can do everything, and so she does everything. Of course this is a generalization and there are a million shades of grey. But it is not hyperbolic to say this starts with that newborn baby crying at 3am. It is factual. THAT is where a mother is born, putting her needs second, being a person the child clings to, learning how to soothe, learning how to keep on soothing and being there even if its not working and showing the baby you're never going to walk away. That crucible is where real mettle is born, and, frankly, it freaking sucks. It is difficult, even with easy babies it is a difficult exhausting time. And when dads don't go through that, they don't get changed in the same fundamental way mom gets changed. Going through hard stuff is what helps us grow and mature and learn, moms who buffer dad's first year just ensure they never have to face that growth. Don't deprive your husbands of being full time dads. Don't deprive yourselves of an equal partner. Don't let logistics determine patterns that have the potential to create a lifetime of resentment.

Okay but this thread is about DADS and so my comment is about DADS. I’m wondering what is wrong with you and your marriage that you are so obsessed with black and white, strict rules, statistics, etc to figure out how to run your own family.

Either you can't read or you can't comprehend, but this entire comment is embarrassing as a response the very thoughtful response that PP took the time to write out for you. Do better.

[Anonymous]

^^she highlighted once sentence I wrote and based her critique on the fact that I referred to DH, but the whole point of this thread is debating what DH should do. And no it’s not a “thoughtful” response. It’s a self righteous screed based on theory and not reality. The theory being that a dad’s entire relationship with his child is based on how their family handles night wakings in the newborn period. That is nonsense. There are so many factors, including the mom’s own preference, which oddly doesn’t seem to matter to this poster at all. I am one of those people who genuinely preferred to do night wakings with my first baby! It worked for us. Guess what - that baby is now 5 years old, and her dad gets her up, makes her breakfast, plays with her in the evening, and does stuff with her all weekend. My 2nd child was a much worse sleeper than my first. I still preferred to handle wake ups at first. When it was clear feeding wasn’t the issue, my husband took over rocking at night. That child is 2.5 and when he wakes up at night, my husband goes in to comfort him! Things change! None of what we do now has anything to do with the fact that I handled night feedings myself in the newborn days.

[Anonymous]

I mean honestly, we all know this: there are plenty of dads who handle one feeding at night, go to work, come home at 6, then talk about how tired they are from waking up at night and proceed to sit on the couch while their wife handles the evening with the baby (after being alone with baby all day). Vs the husband who is rested from having slept the night before and is prepared to come home in the evening and take over for a few hours, put the baby in a carrier and make dinner while the mom relaxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean honestly, we all know this: there are plenty of dads who handle one feeding at night, go to work, come home at 6, then talk about how tired they are from waking up at night and proceed to sit on the couch while their wife handles the evening with the baby (after being alone with baby all day). Vs the husband who is rested from having slept the night before and is prepared to come home in the evening and take over for a few hours, put the baby in a carrier and make dinner while the mom relaxes.

I mean this is a possible scenario but not one that is born out by anything other than ancdata.

The tl;dr of this whole thread is, the degree to which you care about egalitarian parenting should inform your decision. Because what research does show is a men who do not do equal care for newborns continue not to do equal care for children. An equally plausible scenario to your well rested guy with the baby in a carrier is the guy who just says “the baby likes you more” when they don’t know how to soothe their six week old and “you’re just better at this” about their clingy 16MO.

But it’s also possible not to particularly care about egalitarian parenting, be happy being the primary parent, and be satisfied with “helping out” from DH. If someone (OP or otherwise) wants that they should just say that’s what they want and recognize that’s what their advice points to for outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean honestly, we all know this: there are plenty of dads who handle one feeding at night, go to work, come home at 6, then talk about how tired they are from waking up at night and proceed to sit on the couch while their wife handles the evening with the baby (after being alone with baby all day). Vs the husband who is rested from having slept the night before and is prepared to come home in the evening and take over for a few hours, put the baby in a carrier and make dinner while the mom relaxes.

I mean this is a possible scenario but not one that is born out by anything other than ancdata.

The tl;dr of this whole thread is, the degree to which you care about egalitarian parenting should inform your decision. Because what research does show is a men who do not do equal care for newborns continue not to do equal care for children. An equally plausible scenario to your well rested guy with the baby in a carrier is the guy who just says “the baby likes you more” when they don’t know how to soothe their six week old and “you’re just better at this” about their clingy 16MO.

But it’s also possible not to particularly care about egalitarian parenting, be happy being the primary parent, and be satisfied with “helping out” from DH. If someone (OP or otherwise) wants that they should just say that’s what they want and recognize that’s what their advice points to for outcomes.

No, that is not the "tl;dr" of this thread. Your smug and dimissive attitude suggests to me that you care more about political ideals than about the experiences of actual women.

Do you even have children? You sound like a 19 year old who just took a women's studies class.

I reject your premise that middle of the night feedings are "parenting" and everything else is just "helping out." I'm wondering what other rules you have for exactly what parents have to do, and exactly what time they have to do it, so that they can be "real parents" instead of "helpers."

And how does this apply to the postpartum period in families with multiple children? I'm having my third child in a month. While my husband is on paternity leave, he is going to be taking care of our two older children, taking care of the newborn at times during the day, doing all the cooking and cleaning. Are you saying none of that counts if he doesn't also do a middle of the night feeding? Are you suggesting that it's best for me and my other children if my husband does a middle of the night feeding and then rests during the day while I drag my tired, bleeding, postpartum body, with its accompanying roller coaster hormones, off the couch and take care of my older 2 children? Who, by the way, include a crazy 2 year old who requires a parent with energy and focus to take care of him. I don't see how that at all makes sense, but I guess that's what we would have to do, in the name of equality?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean honestly, we all know this: there are plenty of dads who handle one feeding at night, go to work, come home at 6, then talk about how tired they are from waking up at night and proceed to sit on the couch while their wife handles the evening with the baby (after being alone with baby all day). Vs the husband who is rested from having slept the night before and is prepared to come home in the evening and take over for a few hours, put the baby in a carrier and make dinner while the mom relaxes.

I mean this is a possible scenario but not one that is born out by anything other than ancdata.

The tl;dr of this whole thread is, the degree to which you care about egalitarian parenting should inform your decision. Because what research does show is a men who do not do equal care for newborns continue not to do equal care for children. An equally plausible scenario to your well rested guy with the baby in a carrier is the guy who just says “the baby likes you more” when they don’t know how to soothe their six week old and “you’re just better at this” about their clingy 16MO.

But it’s also possible not to particularly care about egalitarian parenting, be happy being the primary parent, and be satisfied with “helping out” from DH. If someone (OP or otherwise) wants that they should just say that’s what they want and recognize that’s what their advice points to for outcomes.

No, that is not the "tl;dr" of this thread. Your smug and dimissive attitude suggests to me that you care more about political ideals than about the experiences of actual women.

Do you even have children? You sound like a 19 year old who just took a women's studies class.

I reject your premise that middle of the night feedings are "parenting" and everything else is just "helping out." I'm wondering what other rules you have for exactly what parents have to do, and exactly what time they have to do it, so that they can be "real parents" instead of "helpers."

And how does this apply to the postpartum period in families with multiple children? I'm having my third child in a month. While my husband is on paternity leave, he is going to be taking care of our two older children, taking care of the newborn at times during the day, doing all the cooking and cleaning. Are you saying none of that counts if he doesn't also do a middle of the night feeding? Are you suggesting that it's best for me and my other children if my husband does a middle of the night feeding and then rests during the day while I drag my tired, bleeding, postpartum body, with its accompanying roller coaster hormones, off the couch and take care of my older 2 children? Who, by the way, include a crazy 2 year old who requires a parent with energy and focus to take care of him. I don't see how that at all makes sense, but I guess that's what we would have to do, in the name of equality?

I beleive that reserach would show a correlation there, but it isn't a rule. There are lots of ways to have an egatalitarian parenting household, and osme of them may not involve middle of the night feedings. Plus, for a BFing mom, which OP is, the husband is helping with diapers and such, but the mom still has to get up anyway. Maybe her baby is a faster eater than mine, but waking up for feedings was the longest part of the duration.