Why do some men check out of their kids' lives after divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

And none of this whining has anything to do with the child.

Because they are conflict avoidant and walking away is just easier. Easy button and done.

I know in our situation, my husband took it to court many times. There were zero consequences for Mom. He'd fly out, go to court, get so see the kids for a few hours after court and that was it. He got very specific court orders with shared cost for plane tickets. She'd refuse to put the kids on the plane (older/not an age fly alone issue and she left them home alone all the time to fend for themselves) and when he flew out, she'd refuse to let them see him. She'd refuse phone calls, emails and texting too telling the kids to ignore Dad. After several years and a lot of money between all the flights (she'd cash out the flights even though he'd pay for them), a lot win court fees, hotel costs, he just couldn't keep up with the expenses and gave up when they were older teens.

There are consequences for not paying child support but there are no consequences, except for a rare judge for visitation/contact refusal.

Given how the kids all have relationship issues and two/three refuse to get married/have kids its pretty sad the number she did on them. Not including the AP/boyfriend's kids who suffered as she would allow them in her home after child welfare removed them due to abuse and the AP/boyfriend refused to pay child support so they lived in poverty. Their mom and my husband were friendly and I talked to her when she'd call and sometimes sent her clothing and other stuff for the kids as she was really struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex checked out of our lives a few years ago. He was focused on his girlfriends, discovering new bands and restaurants, and reliving his youth rather than spending any time with the children. Basically it was a textbook midlife crisis. So, 100% of parenting has fallen to me, which has been very difficult, but I have managed, and the kids and I are now in a good place with a nice, calm, happy life. We've grown roots in a new neighborhood and have built a new community.
And now my ex wants back "in". Presumably he had a romantic relationship end, and now he wants to start spending more time with the kids. I'm feeling resentful -- like we were disposable, and now he wants us to be available based on his whims. The whole thing feels very unfair to me and the kids.

It's absolutely unfair but I think your kids will resent you if you don't give him a chance. Unfortunately he will probably vanish again once he gets a new girlfriend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex checked out of our lives a few years ago. He was focused on his girlfriends, discovering new bands and restaurants, and reliving his youth rather than spending any time with the children. Basically it was a textbook midlife crisis. So, 100% of parenting has fallen to me, which has been very difficult, but I have managed, and the kids and I are now in a good place with a nice, calm, happy life. We've grown roots in a new neighborhood and have built a new community.
And now my ex wants back "in". Presumably he had a romantic relationship end, and now he wants to start spending more time with the kids. I'm feeling resentful -- like we were disposable, and now he wants us to be available based on his whims. The whole thing feels very unfair to me and the kids.

It's absolutely unfair but I think your kids will resent you if you don't give him a chance. Unfortunately he will probably vanish again once he gets a new girlfriend.

As someone who’s been in this situation - the intermittent contact is very hard on the kids. I drew a boundary with my exDH - he was welcome to see the kids, but he had to pick a day and time and commit to it weekly with only rare absences. He manages to do dinner twice a week, but only at a restaurant or my house. It took him 15 years to commit to having his kids spend the night at his house one night a week.

When it wasn’t regular, the kids would hope every day - is today. the day when he is going to want to see me? It was awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:
.

Nope. Not buying it. With such highly detailed particulars and assumptions which are blatantly pro mom and anti dad, it is obvious you are the mom.

I am a woman, but I wasn’t able to have my own kids, so no, I am not a mom. I don’t think I am anti-dad. I have a lot of empathy for the dads I have worked with (and my own dad who is on his third family). As I said, I think it is a dynamic where men are not taught how to nurture relationships and maintain connections and manage logistics and be knowledgeable about child development, and I think it’s a shame.

Many dads are wonderful, involved fathers with or without divorce.

But for the situations the OP is asking about, the pattern I see over and over is that post-divorce dad just does not have the skillset to cope with childcare and logistics or with his own emotional needs. He interprets the negative emotions the kids have about the divorce and the increased friction caused by his lack of skill as signs that either a) he is a bad dad and they’d be better off without him, or b) mom has poisoned the kids against him and gradually puts in less effort, resulting in more negativity between him and the kids, which is a cycle that repeats until he is effectively absent.

I think the best thing we can do for men in general is to raise boys to be as emotionally and logistically capable as girls and to send a message that adult men who are struggling are allowed to research new information or ask for help and support.

This. Very astute. And if they remarry it gets even more complicated. They want the new wife so they agree to the additional kid or two, but they are overstretched emotionally, financially, and logistically. They can't cope with teenagers, toddlers, old wife who is co-parenting but isn't wife-ing for him anymore, new wife and her needs, and the layer of planning and logistical complexity that comes with joint custody. These guys may mean well, but they just don't have what it takes, and they aren't going to bail on their new wife and kids so that means the old kids get scraps and are eventually left behind.

holy sh*t that is bleak, but rings true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Wow. This is spot on.

I have sole custody of our three, who are now older teens. In the beginning, my exH made an effort to stick to the visitation schedule (dinner 1x a week with all three, one weekend day a month - all his choice), but it seemed too much. It's been six years now and I can see that my ex has moved on with his life and not only does he not see the kids, when he does talk to them or see them, he has no idea what to say. It's incredibly sad. But parenting is hard work, and takes day-in, day-out commitment. And my ex checked out long before we split up.

[Anonymous]

My ex took our DD for a few days. He hadn't seen her in years. He later said that she wasn't very friendly or talkative. Um, he hadn't seen her or talked to him for more than a minute or two in years. What did he expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband was very, very involved when the kids were babies and toddlers, and still pretty involved when they were preschoolers, but he started scaling back his involvement more and more throughout their elementary school years, and completely checked out when his midlife crisis started and our marriage fell apart. He barely spent any time with them for the last couple years before he finally moved out, when they were in middle school. He eats dinner with them once a week in our family home (where the kids and I still live), but that’s it. I let him know that he’s certainly welcome to spend more time with the kids. He said his job is demanding and he can only work out at the gym in the evenings, so that doesn’t really leave any free time. I asked if I’d said or done something to make him feel like he wasn’t welcome to see the kids whenever he’s able, and he said, no, I know you’d let me see them any time.

It’s devastating to me that he doesn’t want more involvement. I hurt for my kids. I just can’t understand how my STBX changed so drastically. I would never have predicted this.

I'm sorry. This sounds a lot like my ex. He sees our daughter maybe 2 hours a week at my home. I also help facilitate their relationship, though I'm not sure how much longer I can do it- but it's always a "busy at work" crap.

I left him when my daughter was only 7 months. In many ways I'm relieved I left when I did, because she'll never know anything different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband was very, very involved when the kids were babies and toddlers, and still pretty involved when they were preschoolers, but he started scaling back his involvement more and more throughout their elementary school years, and completely checked out when his midlife crisis started and our marriage fell apart. He barely spent any time with them for the last couple years before he finally moved out, when they were in middle school. He eats dinner with them once a week in our family home (where the kids and I still live), but that’s it. I let him know that he’s certainly welcome to spend more time with the kids. He said his job is demanding and he can only work out at the gym in the evenings, so that doesn’t really leave any free time. I asked if I’d said or done something to make him feel like he wasn’t welcome to see the kids whenever he’s able, and he said, no, I know you’d let me see them any time.

It’s devastating to me that he doesn’t want more involvement. I hurt for my kids. I just can’t understand how my STBX changed so drastically. I would never have predicted this.

I'm sorry. This sounds a lot like my ex. He sees our daughter maybe 2 hours a week at my home. I also help facilitate their relationship, though I'm not sure how much longer I can do it- but it's always a "busy at work" crap.

I left him when my daughter was only 7 months. In many ways I'm relieved I left when I did, because she'll never know anything different.

If you only allow him to visit in your home for a few hours and that’s all he’s ever gotten, how exactly can he be a dad. This is why many of us say share custody. He gave up. Why should he have to beg and chase you to see the kids? Ask him to share custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Wow. This is spot on.

I have sole custody of our three, who are now older teens. In the beginning, my exH made an effort to stick to the visitation schedule (dinner 1x a week with all three, one weekend day a month - all his choice), but it seemed too much. It's been six years now and I can see that my ex has moved on with his life and not only does he not see the kids, when he does talk to them or see them, he has no idea what to say. It's incredibly sad. But parenting is hard work, and takes day-in, day-out commitment. And my ex checked out long before we split up.

When you took sole custody you took away his parental rights. What else can he do but move on. What is his version? Maybe he realized you don’t want him involved so it was best to back off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex took our DD for a few days. He hadn't seen her in years. He later said that she wasn't very friendly or talkative. Um, he hadn't seen her or talked to him for more than a minute or two in years. What did he expect?

Same here. But he was always that way and couldn’t relate or connect with the kids at each age. Now that I’m not around to constantly fill him in in their schedule, activities, friends, food, school, worries (not that he knew what to do or say ever, he’d usually get mad at me!), he just resorts to screen time.

[Anonymous]

Pp again, we mediated and both agreed to my full physical and legal custody and his weekly dinners, weekend time.
He was a work addict and couldn’t “handle” the kids, he got too agitated with them and they quickly got too agitated with him. This was evident for years while married and for the GAL and court system. Plus the kids were 8 yo+ and could communicate their feelings and observations, such as their dad not responding to their questions, or getting injured and Dad ignoring it (3 major incidents of neglect and poor judgment that resulted in Dr and specialist appts 24 hours after the injuries), kids not trusting him, him literally wandering off during morning or bedtime routine.

[Anonymous]

Yikes! This thread saddens me. I do find that as a teacher, almost ALL of my children that have trouble with learning or behavior have "Daddy issues" or other family issues that are at the very heart of all their problems. I had a daughter literally tell me that she feels she must be ugly because her Dad does not want to see her anymore. She was 7 and the cutest, neatest little girl. That broke my heart. Her self-esteem was 0 at the tender age of 7. I have a child now who was constantly promised the world from his Dad but not one of those wishes materialized. Then, after the child retorted to his Dad failing to even call on his birthday, the father said he has better things to do and it was best he not call him anymore. Now, the child has a HUGE mental psychosis every week, and has been largely absent from virtual learning. The poor single Mom cannot handle all of this on her own as she has 2 younger children as well and told me she wants to commit him as he is out of control with his anger and threatening to end his life. Poor Baby. I wish I could hold him and tell him that he can have a successful life even without an active father. But, he idolizes Dad and only wants his attention. This is so incredibly sad. And, I am only a teacher! I can only imagine what Mom goes through every day. I really wish parent's who choose to be absent understand or walk a week in their poor kid's shoes to understand what they go through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yikes! This thread saddens me. I do find that as a teacher, almost ALL of my children that have trouble with learning or behavior have "Daddy issues" or other family issues that are at the very heart of all their problems. I had a daughter literally tell me that she feels she must be ugly because her Dad does not want to see her anymore. She was 7 and the cutest, neatest little girl. That broke my heart. Her self-esteem was 0 at the tender age of 7. I have a child now who was constantly promised the world from his Dad but not one of those wishes materialized. Then, after the child retorted to his Dad failing to even call on his birthday, the father said he has better things to do and it was best he not call him anymore. Now, the child has a HUGE mental psychosis every week, and has been largely absent from virtual learning. The poor single Mom cannot handle all of this on her own as she has 2 younger children as well and told me she wants to commit him as he is out of control with his anger and threatening to end his life. Poor Baby. I wish I could hold him and tell him that he can have a successful life even without an active father. But, he idolizes Dad and only wants his attention. This is so incredibly sad. And, I am only a teacher! I can only imagine what Mom goes through every day. I really wish parent's who choose to be absent understand or walk a week in their poor kid's shoes to understand what they go through.

This sounds like a mom parenting issue and a mental health issue, no tDad issue. If she has three kids with different dads, none involved, maybe she wants it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes! This thread saddens me. I do find that as a teacher, almost ALL of my children that have trouble with learning or behavior have "Daddy issues" or other family issues that are at the very heart of all their problems. I had a daughter literally tell me that she feels she must be ugly because her Dad does not want to see her anymore. She was 7 and the cutest, neatest little girl. That broke my heart. Her self-esteem was 0 at the tender age of 7. I have a child now who was constantly promised the world from his Dad but not one of those wishes materialized. Then, after the child retorted to his Dad failing to even call on his birthday, the father said he has better things to do and it was best he not call him anymore. Now, the child has a HUGE mental psychosis every week, and has been largely absent from virtual learning. The poor single Mom cannot handle all of this on her own as she has 2 younger children as well and told me she wants to commit him as he is out of control with his anger and threatening to end his life. Poor Baby. I wish I could hold him and tell him that he can have a successful life even without an active father. But, he idolizes Dad and only wants his attention. This is so incredibly sad. And, I am only a teacher! I can only imagine what Mom goes through every day. I really wish parent's who choose to be absent understand or walk a week in their poor kid's shoes to understand what they go through.

This sounds like a mom parenting issue and a mental health issue, no tDad issue. If she has three kids with different dads, none involved, maybe she wants it that way.

You sound very bitter. Who hurt you?

[Anonymous]

NP. Some dads are just assholes. It is easy to leave a young baby. Especially one they didn’t parent when married. Sometimes they saunter back around when the kid is older or there is another woman in the picture.

Not all dads. Some.