Why do some men check out of their kids' lives after divorce?

[Anonymous]

Most people love the idea of having kids for many reasons but who really wants to do the unglamorous day-to-day work of raising them for years?

I am a DW who can totally understand stepping out of, as Alice Walker called it, the role of "personal parenting" if I knew that my kids would be well taken care of.

We all know mothers as well who farm their kids out to their moms or other people to raise. The only reason this does not happen more often is that society discourages women from doing it in a way it never does men.

OP, More men do it because they more often can with impunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

This, my husband's ex lied every chance she got to the kids saying how Dad destroyed the marriage. In all reality she cheated, took the kids cross country to live with the AP who moved out there and denied Dad his visits. Dad made plane reservations each and every schedule visit and she'd refuse to send the kids and often cashed out the tickets (not sure how the airlines allowed it given it was paid for by him) so he couldn't use them the next visit (she was supposed to pay 1/2 but never did). He'd fly out and she'd refuse to let the kids see him. He went to court multiple times and the judge just fussed at her, gave him make up visits and visits while he was there, that she still denied, rinse and repeat. Eventually when the youngest was a teen, he gave up and said if you want to visit, I'll buy the ticket. He only heard from them when they wanted extra money. Dad finally had enough and said I'll buy you want you need vs. sending money. Send me a list of wants, needs, brand preferences (or even the exact clothing and shoes) and I'll ship them to the house. And, give me the information for sports and activities and I'll pay directly. They refused to send any information and only demanded money. Dad would still regularly send clothing and other stuff and kids said they never got it despite delivery confirmation. Mom got child support, alimony and Dad provided health care and dental care. What more could Dad do if he would show up and she refused to allow him to see the kid/s when he flew out or he bought plane tickets and she refused to send them. All three kids have their relationship challenges now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people love the idea of having kids for many reasons but who really wants to do the unglamorous day-to-day work of raising them for years?

I am a DW who can totally understand stepping out of, as Alice Walker called it, the role of "personal parenting" if I knew that my kids would be well taken care of.

We all know mothers as well who farm their kids out to their moms or other people to raise. The only reason this does not happen more often is that society discourages women from doing it in a way it never does men.

OP, More men do it because they more often can with impunity.

Or, Mom could just as easily give Dad full custody if she doesn't want to do it. I know many men who would gladly do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

OP here. This is a crude generalization. In the cases that I know, the moms went out of their way to facilitate and promote the kids' interactions with their fathers.

Is this their version of the story or do you know it from Dad as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

OP here. This is a crude generalization. In the cases that I know, the moms went out of their way to facilitate and promote the kids' interactions with their fathers.

NP

Dearest OP - how is this considered a generalization... your question was general. You asked "why do SOME men...", and this PP answered. "because the mom makes is difficult on him....." I doubt this PP even thought their answer could be considered as pertaining to all men.

Why ask a question if you don't want people's opinions?

This is a great point. The question in general stereotyped dads. I’m a guy and a few friends have been divorced. Every single one of them won’t miss a day when it’s their time to hang with their kids.

[Anonymous]

My parents were married for 25 years before they got divorced around when I graduated from college. He got remarried when I was in my late 20s and migrated away from his friend group of 30 years to instead hang out with her friends (because she set up the social events). He sees her children and grandchild regularly because his wife arranges it, but he doesn't see his own kids and grandkids much at all. He usually doesn't call his kids, we have to call him. He feels hurt when his kids don't talk to him, which his wife tells us, but he also doesn't take the initiative to reach out. He doesn't take responsibility for the scheduling of his own life and just sits back and has his life happen to him.

[Anonymous]

Their wives used to keep them informed and tell them what was going on. After the divorce they didn’t pick up that emotional labor.

[Anonymous]

My dad left when I was 5 and my brother was 7. He got every other weekend with us. He decided to move a few hours away for a job and then maybe would get us every 6-8 weeks. My brother was a challenging teenager and it was decided that he would move in with my dad. My brother and mom were going to a therapist then and my dad expressed that he wasn't ready to take care of my brother. The therapist said "He is 16 years old. When do you think you will be ready?" I remember sitting in that therapy office wondering the same thing. My dad was content letting my mother do it all. He was fine with occasional visits where he didn't need to do any of the work of parenting.

[Anonymous]

My ex became less involved with our child as involvement began to require more from him. When she stopped being willing to just do whatever he wanted and started having social needs beyond going to brunch with his friends, he became less interested in parenting. I spent a lot of time trying to support their relationship. I essentially gave him all the fun parenting time and none of the difficult parts and he still couldn’t keep her as a priority. He eventually took a job in another state (he had a job in DC already) and married someone else and had a new family. He sees DD for spring break and a few weeks in the summer and even then, he sets up camps for her and spends almost no time with her (per both of their reports).

Ultimately, I wasn’t going to work harder on their relationship than he was, and when I stopped actively managing it, he stopped even trying. He hasn’t seen DD since last May and hasn’t called her in several weeks. She is 11 and it’s been like this since she was about 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex became less involved with our child as involvement began to require more from him. When she stopped being willing to just do whatever he wanted and started having social needs beyond going to brunch with his friends, he became less interested in parenting. I spent a lot of time trying to support their relationship. I essentially gave him all the fun parenting time and none of the difficult parts and he still couldn’t keep her as a priority. He eventually took a job in another state (he had a job in DC already) and married someone else and had a new family. He sees DD for spring break and a few weeks in the summer and even then, he sets up camps for her and spends almost no time with her (per both of their reports).

Ultimately, I wasn’t going to work harder on their relationship than he was, and when I stopped actively managing it, he stopped even trying. He hasn’t seen DD since last May and hasn’t called her in several weeks. She is 11 and it’s been like this since she was about 7.

that is really sad.

[Anonymous]

I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

[Anonymous]

My aunt’s husband left her for another woman when their daughter was 10 months old and moved halfway across the world. This was 45 years ago. He never saw the child since or paid a dime of support but he has 5 kids with the other woman that he dotes on. It happens. Cousin has been in therapy her entire life.

[Anonymous]

Oh my 11:48. You are perceptive!

I am going thru a divorce now and happy that my kids are teenagers. I know, whole other set of issues, but they are independent and flexible and mature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Just give up? Give me a break!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

There is literally nothing that would stop me from trying to get to my kids. I would never, ever give up. And I think most women are the same. Why do men just give up?