Why do some men check out of their kids' lives after divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been a fully engaged mother so that I can disengage with zero guilt when each child turns 18. I will have done my duty, and they will owe me nothing. My happiness does not depend on my kids' choices for their lives. They know this.

What? You plan to stop talking to your kids and kick them out at 18? You sound pretty unhealthy.

I've known people like this, they never should have had kids. I enjoy my kids as adults and will when I have grandkids. If that parent sees it as a duty they suck as a parent.

Bet they aren't involved either, never will be by the sounds of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One piece of advice I give folks is to think really hard about whether to consent to allowing the other party to move away with the children because you are at a huge disadvantage if the venue is in a far away location. For example, anytime there is an issue you are going to have to go down to that location for (at a minimum) an initial appearance and then for the trial/hearing on the matter. In VA, the judgment of the JDR court can be appealed de novo to the circuit court so you're looking at at least another two appearances if the other party appeals. Let's say the court is 2-3 hours away you're looking at losing several days if you ever have to deal with issues.

What you're not understanding, often the other parent is ok with it. Mainly because they don't want to see the kids as much. Awful I know, but it's the truth.

See the bolded. I just said they should think carefully about whether to agree to it because if there are issues seeing their children (even if only occasionally) it can be difficult to challenge from afar. If that's what they want then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One piece of advice I give folks is to think really hard about whether to consent to allowing the other party to move away with the children because you are at a huge disadvantage if the venue is in a far away location. For example, anytime there is an issue you are going to have to go down to that location for (at a minimum) an initial appearance and then for the trial/hearing on the matter. In VA, the judgment of the JDR court can be appealed de novo to the circuit court so you're looking at at least another two appearances if the other party appeals. Let's say the court is 2-3 hours away you're looking at losing several days if you ever have to deal with issues.

What you're not understanding, often the other parent is ok with it. Mainly because they don't want to see the kids as much. Awful I know, but it's the truth.

Get more office work done, no distractions! How glorious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is it possible for some fathers to check out of their children's lives and basically phase out contact with them after a divorce? I have seen plenty of even highly educated men doing this, even if it was originally them eager to have kids, and they were adamant that they would take good care of them. As a mom, I could not go even two weeks without seeing my kid.

The lack of responsibility and selfishness is heartbreaking. How can such a thing happen? Let's say he does not get along well with the mom. That is not a reason to stop contact with the child....

They were always checked out or not really present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

OP here. This is a crude generalization. In the cases that I know, the moms went out of their way to facilitate and promote the kids' interactions with their fathers.

NP

Dearest OP - how is this considered a generalization... your question was general. You asked "why do SOME men...", and this PP answered. "because the mom makes is difficult on him....." I doubt this PP even thought their answer could be considered as pertaining to all men.

Why ask a question if you don't want people's opinions?

This is a great point. The question in general stereotyped dads. I’m a guy and a few friends have been divorced. Every single one of them won’t miss a day when it’s their time to hang with their kids.

"Hang with their kids" huh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My aunt’s husband left her for another woman when their daughter was 10 months old and moved halfway across the world. This was 45 years ago. He never saw the child since or paid a dime of support but he has 5 kids with the other woman that he dotes on. It happens. Cousin has been in therapy her entire life.

Eh, aunt lied about him being the father. He figured it out and left

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a nanny and have seen this up close and personal in my own family and with two different nanny families. I am now in my 40’s and starting to see it play out among friends. I think it comes down to a few things:

1) Men are not socialized to have a baseline understanding of child development stages in the same ways that women are. They are also culturally programmed to believe that seeking out new information is a sign of weakness.

2) Developing and maintaining personal relationships is a skillset, but because women are socialized to develop those skills and men are not, the skillset is often invisible to men. They often don't realize the degree to which their friendships (even with other men) and family relationships (with extended family), and parent-child relationships may be largely a result of the emotional and logistical labor of their wife.

3) Men in our society are also taught that the only person they can be emotionally connected to is the woman they are currently having sex with.

The way all this (often) plays out in a heterosexual marriage and divorce is this:
When married, the wife supports many of the husband’s relationships by managing all the background logistics.

Example A) Dad can have a “Sunday morning pancake” ritual with the children because mom has made sure the children went to bed at a reasonable hour Saturday night, that there are the right ingredients and clean dishes in the kitchen, that the children’s Sunday morning is free from homework pressure, critical errands and housework and other social or extracurricular obligations for dad and children. Dad feels that because he is physically there making pancakes he has done this all himself. After the divorce, dad has to arrange for his own dishes and ingredients. He has to make weekend plans that leave time for the lazy Sunday mornings without having children who are crabby from being in the house all day Saturday doing nothing (or from doing too much on Saturday and being exhausted). Suddenly, this ritual is not going smoothly. Surely the difference is that the children are being badly influenced by mom. They were never this rude before. He is hurt and drops the routine, losing a point of connection to his kids.

Example B:
During marriage, mom made sure to watch like a hawk when sign-ups are due for Parent-teacher conferences. She diligently signs up right away for a slot that dad can most likely be available and puts it on the family calendar and reminds him a few days before. Dad goes to the conference and gets a good sense of how school is going for his child. After the divorce, parents decide that mom will attend the fall conference and dad will attend in spring. Dad doesn’t realize how quickly the good slots fill up, and doesn’t jump on the email right away. He ends up not being able to find a time that he can get away from work and blows off the conference, blaming mom for not warning him.

Example C: During the marriage, mom spent a lot of time arranging double dates, playdates and backyard barbecues with a handful of other moms, all of whom have children the same age as her kids. This means that she has a group of people she can call to help out with carpool snags and other logistical challenges. It also means that weekends are filled with social time where the families get together and the parents and kids all socialize. After the divorce, this group continues to socialize with mom because she formed the friendships. The dads may occasionally invite dad to a boys’ night out but he can’t readily call of this support network for favors to help him manage the kids’ routines during his custodial time. The result is that he struggles to maintain the kids’ routines, and they get frustrated that going to dad’s house on Thursdays means that they have to skip ballet because he can’t drive them, or that they won’t be able to swim in Larla’s pool on Saturday, because dad feels awkward setting up playdates with parents he feels have taken mom’s side. Child complains about things they are missing out on and dad ends up agreeing to less custody because the kid “only wants to be at mom’s house anyway.”

Example D: During the marriage, mom was constantly reading about (and discussing with other parents) developmental stages and parenting tools and strategies. She may also have done a good bit of babysitting or just spending time with the children of siblings or friends before becoming a parent herself. As the child transitions into new stages, mom is ready and has things like a high chair for solid foods, a potty seat for toilet training. She has developmentally-appropriate routines (nap and mealtimes, a bedtime routine) in place and developmentally-appropriate expectations of behavior. She knows that toddlers tantrum and tweens are argumentative. Even when dad is parenting solo, he is doing so in a framework she has established—he follows her bedtime routine while she is away for work, he knows to feed the kids dinner at 5. He knows the toddler needs an afternoon nap, not because of his own parenting knowledge but because he is following the routines and systems mom has put into place. When he runs into a discipline issue he may fall back on parenting strategies he has learned from watching her, and the consistency between parents makes the children more likely to comply with a consequence like “time out” because mom put in the work to show them what a time out is and to enforce sitting in time out. After the divorce, mom is no longer providing this framework. So as the children age into new stages, dad is working with outmoded information. The 3 year old no longer naps and therefore needs an earlier bedtime he throws 5 tantrums between 7 and 8pm. The tween is too old for timeouts and becomes rebellious and defiant at the command. The dad finds this sudden chaos overwhelming and thinks perhaps he is not a good parent. He cannot manage the kids and gradually reduces the time they are with him.

Example E: during the marriage, mom made sure to schedule monthly one-on-one outings for each kid with dad. She also managed many of the relationships with extended family: sending holiday presents, birthday cards, arranging face times and invites to recitals and soccer matches. After the divorce, dad finds that many of their couple friends “take her side,” and many of his family members aren't as present as they used to be. Now that he has all the children together during all of his parenting time, he finds it harder to connect with them emotionally. He feels very lonely and rejected. He begins dating shortly after the separation and is eager to get serious with someone because he is starved for emotional connection. Once he begins seriously dating another woman, his life becomes more fulfilling—girlfriend arranged meetups with her friends and their boyfriends or husbands. Instead of spending his non-custodial days along he is with her or her friends and family. His time with the children continues to be difficult and his girlfriend (who is now the primary relationship in his life), may also be absent more on days when he has the kids. His life with her (and without the kids), begins to feel more real to him than the slog of childcare and he gradually reduces the time he spends with his children. Over time he may go days, then weeks and in some case months without really thinking about the kids.

Nope. Not buying it. With such highly detailed particulars and assumptions which are blatantly pro mom and anti dad, it is obvious you are the mom.

DP here and I actually think reading through the examples posted - that yeah, that pretty much explains what happens and how it happens. There are some dads who are the exception and exceptions are always going to be few and far between.

[Anonymous]

I agree with all those examples and a divorced woman told me them all when I was 25 yo. Social life and child knowledge collapses after divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

OP here. This is a crude generalization. In the cases that I know, the moms went out of their way to facilitate and promote the kids' interactions with their fathers.

NP

Dearest OP - how is this considered a generalization... your question was general. You asked "why do SOME men...", and this PP answered. "because the mom makes is difficult on him....." I doubt this PP even thought their answer could be considered as pertaining to all men.

Why ask a question if you don't want people's opinions?

This is a great point. The question in general stereotyped dads. I’m a guy and a few friends have been divorced. Every single one of them won’t miss a day when it’s their time to hang with their kids.

"Hang with their kids" huh.

When they only get every other weekend and not 50/50, yes its hanging out. They are visitor in their kids lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband was very, very involved when the kids were babies and toddlers, and still pretty involved when they were preschoolers, but he started scaling back his involvement more and more throughout their elementary school years, and completely checked out when his midlife crisis started and our marriage fell apart. He barely spent any time with them for the last couple years before he finally moved out, when they were in middle school. He eats dinner with them once a week in our family home (where the kids and I still live), but that’s it. I let him know that he’s certainly welcome to spend more time with the kids. He said his job is demanding and he can only work out at the gym in the evenings, so that doesn’t really leave any free time. I asked if I’d said or done something to make him feel like he wasn’t welcome to see the kids whenever he’s able, and he said, no, I know you’d let me see them any time.

It’s devastating to me that he doesn’t want more involvement. I hurt for my kids. I just can’t understand how my STBX changed so drastically. I would never have predicted this.

wow. that sounds like depression or some kind of double life?

No, leaving the family was the beginning of the end of the depression he had been hiding for years. That is why it does not hurt him to be with them so little. When they are older he will see them even less because he will have fulfilled, in his mind, all his obligations. People like us often don't know we are like this until it is too late because society discourages us to admit it to ourselves or anyone else. We think the feelings will go away. They don't. I am so relieved every single time DH and kids leave the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been a fully engaged mother so that I can disengage with zero guilt when each child turns 18. I will have done my duty, and they will owe me nothing. My happiness does not depend on my kids' choices for their lives. They know this.

What? You plan to stop talking to your kids and kick them out at 18? You sound pretty unhealthy.

I've known people like this, they never should have had kids. I enjoy my kids as adults and will when I have grandkids. If that parent sees it as a duty they suck as a parent.

Bet they aren't involved either, never will be by the sounds of it.

Disengaging does not mean never contacting them but it does mean no longer feeling responsible to be available every day or attend to every material need they have. It means that they must live by my rules entirely if they wish to remain in my home. It may mean leaving my home for a new adventure. Their coming of age means FREEDOM for me.

[Anonymous]

My ex checked out of our lives a few years ago. He was focused on his girlfriends, discovering new bands and restaurants, and reliving his youth rather than spending any time with the children. Basically it was a textbook midlife crisis. So, 100% of parenting has fallen to me, which has been very difficult, but I have managed, and the kids and I are now in a good place with a nice, calm, happy life. We've grown roots in a new neighborhood and have built a new community.
And now my ex wants back "in". Presumably he had a romantic relationship end, and now he wants to start spending more time with the kids. I'm feeling resentful -- like we were disposable, and now he wants us to be available based on his whims. The whole thing feels very unfair to me and the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the Mom makes it so difficult on him and causes so much drama. She engages in parental alienation to turn the kid against him anyway and he’s just fighting a losing battle until he finally gives up.

Yep.

And none of this whining has anything to do with the child.

Because they are conflict avoidant and walking away is just easier. Easy button and done.

[Anonymous]

I think some of them were already checked out, just that people outside the household didn’t know it because they were keeping up appearances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ex checked out of our lives a few years ago. He was focused on his girlfriends, discovering new bands and restaurants, and reliving his youth rather than spending any time with the children. Basically it was a textbook midlife crisis. So, 100% of parenting has fallen to me, which has been very difficult, but I have managed, and the kids and I are now in a good place with a nice, calm, happy life. We've grown roots in a new neighborhood and have built a new community.
And now my ex wants back "in". Presumably he had a romantic relationship end, and now he wants to start spending more time with the kids. I'm feeling resentful -- like we were disposable, and now he wants us to be available based on his whims. The whole thing feels very unfair to me and the kids.

Don't punish the kids for his poor behavior. They still need a Dad.