Wife resents me for not earning more

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm not well versed in what lawyers make, but 160 does seem pretty low considering the academic cost and yrs spent at school (and therefore not making much money those adult yrs).

What is the average lawyer salary? If you are making under 50th percentile, then yes I do think she is validated in feeling resentful. You have loans to pay off, college to save for, and had to sell your house and are now living in a condo/apt.

[Anonymous]

I'm just marveling that $1200 per month is considered the compromising, frugal preschool option.

We earn the same income and are the same age as OP, and I think we paid something like $150 per month at the church.

Wow. You city types...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not well versed in what lawyers make, but 160 does seem pretty low considering the academic cost and yrs spent at school (and therefore not making much money those adult yrs).

What is the average lawyer salary? If you are making under 50th percentile, then yes I do think she is validated in feeling resentful. You have loans to pay off, college to save for, and had to sell your house and are now living in a condo/apt.

That’s an extremely complicated question and observation, itself the subject of countless articles/discussion (is a law degree worth it?). Short answer is that median salary for a lawyer is about 120k in the US, with many earning a lot less and those at the top earning way, way, way more. 160k with benefits and a pension and 401k match and cheap healthcare and free commuting is pretty good. Not great, but solid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not well versed in what lawyers make, but 160 does seem pretty low considering the academic cost and yrs spent at school (and therefore not making much money those adult yrs).

What is the average lawyer salary? If you are making under 50th percentile, then yes I do think she is validated in feeling resentful. You have loans to pay off, college to save for, and had to sell your house and are now living in a condo/apt.

That’s an extremely complicated question and observation, itself the subject of countless articles/discussion (is a law degree worth it?). Short answer is that median salary for a lawyer is about 120k in the US, with many earning a lot less and those at the top earning way, way, way more. 160k with benefits and a pension and 401k match and cheap healthcare and free commuting is pretty good. Not great, but solid.

Yup. Federal attorneys don't make biglaw money, but MOST attorneys don't make biglaw money. Plus, biglaw money comes with biglaw hours. $160K plus benefits and stability is a solid job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just marveling that $1200 per month is considered the compromising, frugal preschool option.

We earn the same income and are the same age as OP, and I think we paid something like $150 per month at the church.

Wow. You city types...

I'm in the midwest and even subpar co-op church preschools are more than $150 per month. OP and his wife likely need daily preschool plus childcare option, not some 2 hr 2 days/week church "preschool"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just marveling that $1200 per month is considered the compromising, frugal preschool option.

We earn the same income and are the same age as OP, and I think we paid something like $150 per month at the church.

Wow. You city types...

Please. Did $150 cover all day childcare or a couple hours a few times a week? Working parents use “preschool” and daycare interchangeably. 1,200 a month for full time care is incredibly cheap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not well versed in what lawyers make, but 160 does seem pretty low considering the academic cost and yrs spent at school (and therefore not making much money those adult yrs).

What is the average lawyer salary? If you are making under 50th percentile, then yes I do think she is validated in feeling resentful. You have loans to pay off, college to save for, and had to sell your house and are now living in a condo/apt.

That’s an extremely complicated question and observation, itself the subject of countless articles/discussion (is a law degree worth it?). Short answer is that median salary for a lawyer is about 120k in the US, with many earning a lot less and those at the top earning way, way, way more. 160k with benefits and a pension and 401k match and cheap healthcare and free commuting is pretty good. Not great, but solid.

Yes, 160k for one salary is excellent, particularly when you factor in the obvious quality of life advantages that OP is enjoying (a regular and predictable schedule, rare evening/weekend work, overall lower stress). The vast majority of lawyers making more than this are "paying" for that higher income with very long hours, high stress work environments, and often extremely demanding clients (whether internal or external). I do know some people who don't suffer for the higher income, but they are rare. You have to luck into an in-house position that has a great work environment, or you have to have the exact right personality for one of these high-stress jobs (uncommon).

The bigger issue is that OP and his wife lived in their 20s and through law school as though they assumed that they would be in that higher earning segment of the legal industry. They took out loans on their future and now neither of them wants to pay them back. I feel bad for them, but not that bad. Everyone borrows for law school, but you can make choices to keep that borrowing low. I went to school with people who financed foreign vacations, engagement rings, and luxury apartments with loans. This is dumb, and it should be apparent how dumb and irresponsible it is to anyone with enough critical thinking skills to get an LSAT score. I graduated with 60k in loans, spent a little time in corporate law to get my overall debt down to what felt like a manageable amount long term, and now I pretty much get to do what I want without factoring my debt burden. But I didn't use loans to pay for a Spring Break in Paris at the George V, something numerous of my peers did. That they are now slaving away in Big Law jobs they hate doesn't keep me up at night.

[Anonymous]

^to get *a decent* LSAT score

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well we have a nice, frugal life making way less than you with two kids, so... so just let her figure it out. You don’t need to make more money. She could go part time. It’s your expenses you need to reconsider.

Unfortunately, just "letting the spouse figure it out" is a recipe for disaster, imo. Resentment will continue to grow.

OP's DW's career is not sustainable - trust me. I came from something similar.

Your DW will soon be desperate to escape her day to day and this can manifest itself into a PA.

My advice, have a serious conversation about retirement. You all have a lot of debt. Get the spreadsheet out, put your brain to use with an Excel retirement planner and start playing with numbers.

[Anonymous]

Ok, problem solving time here...

OP, why don't you consider an in-house counsel job? Surely the hours would be the same as Fed, pay much better and the opportunity to catch equity windfalls are there if you land in a nice/small publicly traded company. It's how we got out of school debt, tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, problem solving time here...

OP, why don't you consider an in-house counsel job? Surely the hours would be the same as Fed, pay much better and the opportunity to catch equity windfalls are there if you land in a nice/small publicly traded company. It's how we got out of school debt, tbh.

OP has already said he imagines he'll go to a fin reg agency, which is the same salary his wife currently makes but with better hours, benefits, and stability than in house. But he's not going to actually apply for any fin reg jobs, even though there's currently a glut of openings at the moment, because that would mean she won, or something?

He doesn't want to problem solve. He wants to trash his wife on a message board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, problem solving time here...

OP, why don't you consider an in-house counsel job? Surely the hours would be the same as Fed, pay much better and the opportunity to catch equity windfalls are there if you land in a nice/small publicly traded company. It's how we got out of school debt, tbh.

OP has already said he imagines he'll go to a fin reg agency, which is the same salary his wife currently makes but with better hours, benefits, and stability than in house. But he's not going to actually apply for any fin reg jobs, even though there's currently a glut of openings at the moment, because that would mean she won, or something?

He doesn't want to problem solve. He wants to trash his wife on a message board.

OP has said multiple times that he intends to apply in a couple years, but he is currently not qualified to get one of those jobs so there is no sense in applying.

The hate for OP on this thread is ridiculous. He has a good job with excellent (economic and non-economic) benefits above and beyond his salary. He expects moderate salary growth in the future. He and his wife have paid off a $240k of student loans in a relatively short amount of time.

The fight he and his wife are having over income (whether he should make a little more or whether she should make a little less) is irrational-- because that extra amount he makes or little bit she loses is not the difference between the lifestyle they have vs the lifestyle his wife wants. Him making $50k more is not going to let his wife stay home or give them a 1%er lifestyle. Her making a little less in government will still afford them a sold UMC lifestyle.

In other words, his wife is just unhappy about working alot and the choices she's made, and she's looking to pin it on something or someone else. Sucks for OP that he has to bear the brunt of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who take literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt. It’s crazy making every time I hear these stupid stories. OP, keep your job. It is working for you and your family. Cut expenses, call your wife’s resentment out and tell her to cut it out or find a therapist or divorce you. She’s the problem here. Takes out enormous debt for law school and now wants to be a stay at home? Did she tell you any of this when you were dating/engaged. She sounds selfish. I’m a woman, wife and mother BTW

+1! - also a wife and mother of 2 kids, who worked Big Law but is now a GS-15 and loving it

You guys are jerks. People did this because it’s the only way to get access to middle class jobs. What exactly would you have done if the bank of mom and dad was closed and the only way to go to college was to take out student loans? Something tells me the people judging others for taking out student loans would have never accepted a job at Starbucks as a career.

You are such hypocrites.

Also. Spare me how you worked to pay for tuition when that was possible with a minimum wage summer job. Tuition has gone up exponentially in the decades since you graduated. The minimum wage has not.

[Anonymous]

OP, your problem is not that your wife wants you to rescue her. Your problem is that you want your wife to rescue you AND be happy about it.

She’s rescuing you, but she’s not happy about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, problem solving time here...

OP, why don't you consider an in-house counsel job? Surely the hours would be the same as Fed, pay much better and the opportunity to catch equity windfalls are there if you land in a nice/small publicly traded company. It's how we got out of school debt, tbh.

OP has already said he imagines he'll go to a fin reg agency, which is the same salary his wife currently makes but with better hours, benefits, and stability than in house. But he's not going to actually apply for any fin reg jobs, even though there's currently a glut of openings at the moment, because that would mean she won, or something?

He doesn't want to problem solve. He wants to trash his wife on a message board.

OP has said multiple times that he intends to apply in a couple years, but he is currently not qualified to get one of those jobs so there is no sense in applying.

The hate for OP on this thread is ridiculous. He has a good job with excellent (economic and non-economic) benefits above and beyond his salary. He expects moderate salary growth in the future. He and his wife have paid off a $240k of student loans in a relatively short amount of time.

The fight he and his wife are having over income (whether he should make a little more or whether she should make a little less) is irrational-- because that extra amount he makes or little bit she loses is not the difference between the lifestyle they have vs the lifestyle his wife wants. Him making $50k more is not going to let his wife stay home or give them a 1%er lifestyle. Her making a little less in government will still afford them a sold UMC lifestyle.

In other words, his wife is just unhappy about working alot and the choices she's made, and she's looking to pin it on something or someone else. Sucks for OP that he has to bear the brunt of it.

That is something he said once, but it doesn't actually make sense. Either he's working somewhere he's getting fin reg experience now, in the federal government, in which case he could apply for a lateral (which would be an immediate pay raise based on the scale), or he was doing fin reg in Big Law and is not at his current job in the government, in which case a couple of more years wouldn't make him better positioned. And again: these jobs are usually few and far between, and dozens of posts are up now.

I was actually Team OP until he started changing his story to try to make his wife the scapegoat. I actually posted very early on to say "you can fix this as a team, just make sure she knows you support her taking a step back" and I was not the only one with actionable, concrete advice. But over the course of several pages he only responded to people dogging her out and calling her every name in the book, and ignored any constructive advice to actually help his wife and/or marriage. The last straw was the bit about how his wife, who currently works harder than him and makes more money than him in his own telling, would be asking for him to *rescue* her if she stepped back to the same kind of job he currently has. I'm not surprised people are taking his side, there's reflexive misogyny all over these boards (see the PP excoriating OPs wife for her two BMW leases every two years and European vacations - completely invented, but DCUM has never let that get in the way!), but I think his posts clearly lay out that he's a bad husband and partner.