Marriage dynamics - one vs two income households

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in biglaw for many years. The next 2-3 will determine whether he becomes partner. Is he in a recession-proof area? It is good news that they have talked to him about his path. Things outside of his control could still derail his plans (like the economy tanking and he is a real estate finance attorney), but I would feel pretty good based on what you have said.

OP the things they said are definitely promising but don’t start counting your money before you get it...

This is kind of old but note the “high end” is mid teens: https://abovethelaw.com/2015/08/which-biglaw-firms-promote-the-most-and-least-to-partnership/

That chart is misleading, though, because it counts all associates regardless of class year (i.e. 1st year through whatever year). A 15% promotion to partner rate is just shy of 1/6. Assuming classes sizes are roughly equal, that means most people in the high rate firms are getting promoted to partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

[Anonymous]

Most men do not care what you do all day if it isn’t bringing in any money. They want to come home to
1) a happy, nice smelling wife that wants to have sex
2) happy, well behaved children
3) a clean, well organized home
4) working appliances
5) dinner

However you make that happen is up to you. Some people feel like better mothers/wives when they are working, some feel better when they have more time to devote to being mothers/wives. It’s up to you. When do you feel the most relaxed? Are you the kind of person who needs to bring work with them on vacation? Or are you someone who loves weekends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in biglaw for many years. The next 2-3 will determine whether he becomes partner. Is he in a recession-proof area? It is good news that they have talked to him about his path. Things outside of his control could still derail his plans (like the economy tanking and he is a real estate finance attorney), but I would feel pretty good based on what you have said.

OP the things they said are definitely promising but don’t start counting your money before you get it...

This is kind of old but note the “high end” is mid teens: https://abovethelaw.com/2015/08/which-biglaw-firms-promote-the-most-and-least-to-partnership/

That chart is misleading, though, because it counts all associates regardless of class year (i.e. 1st year through whatever year). A 15% promotion to partner rate is just shy of 1/6. Assuming classes sizes are roughly equal, that means most people in the high rate firms are getting promoted to partner.

Um, exactly two firms in the AmLaw 200 were at 15% or above. That's the promotingest-of-the-promotingest, not the norm. Trust those of us who know what 1st year through "whatever" actually goes through when we tell you: OP's husband is not likely to make partner. No 6th year can reasonably say they're "likely" to make partner. That's not how it works.

[Anonymous]

OP, ignore all the responses that are too pro-SAHM or too pro-WOHM. The SAHMs who can't imagine leaving their child with someone else? They need to get over themselves. The WOHMs who can't imagine having an identity if they didn't work outside the house? They need to get over themselves. You also need to ignore all the people who have a different spouse than you. Yes, some husbands with SAHM wives do resent that their wives don't earn but only spend money. Yes, some husbands do honestly view all money as a joint pot and consider the things that both spouses do, whether income-producing or not, that contribute to the family as a whole.

What you need to do is focus on YOUR situation. How do you feel about the extra house stuff that you may have to take on if you stay at home? Does it entice you, scare you, not matter to you? How does your husband feel about you working or not? You said he preferred you keep a job until he makes partner, so you need to be very careful to make sure you weigh his feelings. How do you guys handle finances now? Since your income is so disparate I think you're actually in a good place to know how things would be if you didn't bring home any money. I could tell you whether I work and, if so, how much I make versus my husband or what my husband makes or how long we've been married or how happy we are or how many people we know of one group of another who have gotten divorced, but it's all white noise. Do what works for YOU. Consider how you feel about having a job, consider how you feel about paying for child care, consider how your husband feels about you having a job, consider how you're going to pay all child-related and household costs, consider how all of that stuff works within the confines of your life. Crowd sourcing is fine for some things, but I hope you can sift through the load of crap from people with chips on their shoulders and maybe get some useful advice here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay home. It's absolutely insane to work for $35k a year and pay daycare $2k a month with aftertax money. You will never see your baby. Babies sleep around 7-7.

You do everything anyway. I would suggest hiring a babysitter once a week so that you can take some time for yourself.

Why don’t you take the daycare expenses out of her Dh’s $200,000 income instead of her $35k share?

Because his salary supports the family. They don't need hers.

[Anonymous]

There is no right answer to SAH versus WOH. It depends on so many things. With baby #1 we had a wonderful young nanny but when baby #2 arrived 16 months later I quit the corporate world and started my own consulting business, first working at home and then I took office space right in our town. I had a good deal of flexibility so I was almost always able to be around when needed. I really needed to work for my pysche (Ivy MBA) but I really felt being close to home and having flexibility was important to me. This worked very well when our three kids were very young but when they hit the often difficult pre-teen years I really felt I needed to be very close to them. That led me to take a job with a non profit where my hours were in sync with the school hours so I was always at home when they were. My point in all of this is that you need to think hard about what works best for you and your family and not worry about what other people think. People thought I was crazy to leave my very successful corporate career, then leave my successful consulting career but my three kids are now very happy and successful young adults and I feel very good that the decisions I made were good for them and good for me. It also helped to have a DH who supported all the decisions I made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stay home. It's absolutely insane to work for $35k a year and pay daycare $2k a month with aftertax money. You will never see your baby. Babies sleep around 7-7.

You do everything anyway. I would suggest hiring a babysitter once a week so that you can take some time for yourself.

Why don’t you take the daycare expenses out of her Dh’s $200,000 income instead of her $35k share?

OP here. So after tax math.

156k (DH) + 21k (me!) = 177k combined after taxes estimated from current paychecks

Daycare will be about 26k (2200 x 12 months). I assume a nanny will be more, but considering as more flexible.

So, math is that we'd have 151 take home if I work. Or if I don't work, take home is 156k although I don't know how taxes will change with 2 dependents.

I'm struggling to see how my working is best financially. I could be wrong here, but I'm personally not seeing it.

You are not taking into account that your extra income is taxed at a higher rate than it would be if it was stand alone. If definitely doesn't make sense financially for you to work. You have a hobby. If you want to do it to stay in the game, find, but you will be losing money, and don't forget the 2 weeks a year that daycare is closed, or your baby is sick (lots) and YOU will have to take off work and the extras like holiday bonuses, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this has been discussed before. I'm expecting my first DC in less than a month (we're mid 30s; married 10 years), and daycare is going to cost more than my income. I work at a NGO and make 35k/year. DH is a big law associate (6L) and works long hours in litigation. I already have to do everything around the house although we do pay for cleaners to help once a month - and when I say everything I mean everything, such as I painted the house when we first bought it, fix broken things, take care of the yard/mow, grocery stop/pack lunches, etc. I got no issues doing it all because my DH is very appreciative and constantly shows it; also there is no fixing this beyond only adding more help - lawn people, more frequently cleaning, handymen, etc. Maybe it's my tired, pregnant brain, but I'm considering staying home once we add a kid to the mix.

So my question is, how are people's relationships affected if one is a stay at home?

If your DH is supportive of you staying home there is no reason that the relationship will be affected. Sure, you may have some issues over chores and stuff but that's easy to deal with. And please, don't let other people's attitudes about staying home affect your decision. They are not living your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I'm just worried about being dependent on my DH even though in reality I am now given his income vastly exceeds mine. I work in refugee resettlement and this work environment right now is, well, sad and exhausting. DH ideally doesn't want me to stay home until IF he makes partner for more security, which won't be for a few year if it does happen.

OP, given what you do, i’d recommend going part time. There are many ways to stay involved in that area. Most of the community colleges in MD handle the refugee language programs. You could find something part time there and keep your foot in the door for a couple of years.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone! OP here. I see both sides of the coin so I'll wait and decide after my 4 weeks of unpaid leave is up - also I might not have a choice really as there is rumbles of layoffs coming which is stressful to hear 8 months pregnant. That is part of what sparked this - the what if I'm unemployed shortly (various coworkers too so won't have a pregnancy complaint)?

I was unemployed years ago for about a year during the recession, and I remember feeling guilty as I was home while my DH worked. I primarily worry that I might feel guilty again, and that I might put added stress on DH which I don't want to do given we have enough in our lives.

I think both WOH and SAH moms are very important and play their roles. I think if you're a feminist that beyond just the notion of equality, you should push for choice and support that we have employment choices no matter which one a lady chooses.

My DH is wonderful and very appreciate of everything that I contribute to our partnership. Just as I appreciate his work hustle. We're a team. It's been 16 years so hard to imagine life without each other, which we remark a fair amount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

3-5 show that you don't actually talk to any SAHMs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

3-5 show that you don't actually talk to any SAHMs.

Not true. My SAHM friends do most of the housework and they aren’t contributing to a 401k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

I disagree that one lifestyle is more stressful. If you stay at home, you’re relying on ONE breadwinner and there’s is a huge risk doing this. This stresses a lot of men out. If you work, then yes you deal with the stress of juggling working and children.

There’s no easy answer and both choices have their downside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

3-5 show that you don't actually talk to any SAHMs.

Not true. My SAHM friends do most of the housework and they aren’t contributing to a 401k.

But won’t they get half of their husbands 401k if they divorce?