Marriage dynamics - one vs two income households

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

Absolutely agree. I really wish I could have stayed home's (couldn't afford to) - it felt absolutely unnatural to ship my kids off ALL day, and daycare is very rough on babies / toddlers. It's hard.

And yes, all of our friends who have divorced are dual income families, and I agree there's something to the idea that that lifestyle breeds resentment (and stress)

Well, all of our friends who have divorced had a SAHM. See how useless that information is?

And what happened to them all?

I heard they are all living in boxes on the street. There is a tent city that makes up most of Wisconsin that houses all of the SAHMs whose husbands left them completely penniless and without the skills for at least a minimum wage job and all of the adult children of working moms who started using drugs and having sex in high school because no one was around to tell them not to. It’s very sad.

[Anonymous]

I work fulltime, with travel.

I run the whole household by myself because my spouse is unreliable.

I would never stay at home to run the whole household because my spouse would never acknowledge nor appreciate what goes into that. He doesn't now, he won't then, why quit my career for that BS.

I think SAHM works WHEN THE WORKING SPOUSE IS HIGHLY APPRECIATIVE OF THE SAH SPOUSE. If working spouse is clueless of everything SAH spouse does, resentment will build. If working spouse is not vocally thankful to SAH spouse, resentment will build.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

Absolutely agree. I really wish I could have stayed home's (couldn't afford to) - it felt absolutely unnatural to ship my kids off ALL day, and daycare is very rough on babies / toddlers. It's hard.

And yes, all of our friends who have divorced are dual income families, and I agree there's something to the idea that that lifestyle breeds resentment (and stress)

You can’t compare the rate of divorce of a sahm couple vs a dual working couple. Given that women are most likely the initiaters of divorces, of course the rate of divorce for the dual working couple will be higher. Women in those marriages actually HAVE the option to leave because they can financially support themselves. Sahms may want to leave but often they can’t because they can not support themselves if they did.

+1. As a SAHM you don’t have many, if any, options.

This is so obvious to me. My MIL stayed with my cheating, loser FIL her whole life because she never graduated from college and never worked. She had no options.

Women in dual income families don't have to stay in shitty situations. Good for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I'm just worried about being dependent on my DH even though in reality I am now given his income vastly exceeds mine. I work in refugee resettlement and this work environment right now is, well, sad and exhausting. DH ideally doesn't want me to stay home until IF he makes partner for more security, which won't be for a few year if it does happen.

well, at least illegal immigration and your current job will be around forever so there's that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's a sixth year associate. The chances he will make partner are very low. He may be scrambling to find a job sometime in the next few years. You need to keep your career going.

she needs to get a real career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I'm just worried about being dependent on my DH even though in reality I am now given his income vastly exceeds mine. I work in refugee resettlement and this work environment right now is, well, sad and exhausting. DH ideally doesn't want me to stay home until IF he makes partner for more security, which won't be for a few year if it does happen.

well, at least illegal immigration and your current job will be around forever so there's that.

I get that would be exhausting, but it's also a very mission-driven profession. While taking care of your child is also of course mission-driven, I think you will really miss this aspect of your life.
Also agree with all of the other folks who have spoken about the financial side of this. I truly believe it creates a huge, huge, HUGE power imbalance in marriages to have one person completely dependent on the other. Cut back hours, shift to something less emotionally draining, do any of those things before you quit work entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again here, so for those who said it is unlikely that he'll make partner can you share details about this. I'm optimistic as he's been told in his last two reviews that they are preparing him for partnership duties and have been actively training him. The firm sent him to a special training conference last year too. Been at the firm almost 5 years since 2L year after working for the feds in expert area for 4 years (also - we have paid off all of our student loans as of two years ago thanks to his job). DH exceeds his hour requirement (last year was 2400+) and has clients specifically asking for him. I know nothing about the legal word though so this all sounds good to me. Are these things not positive?

Also, I don't want him to take on more home responsibilities as his work load is so high, and if his partner told him 2 reviews ago that if he wants to be on the partner track that he needs to keep up the work load. Another female associate complained about the work load and got pushed out soon after. I understand a bit that he has to hustle if he wants to make partner, which he does. He also really likes his job and is a workaholic. It is part of his personality that I know and love. I'm truly okay with doing more on the homefront as it is part of our partnership in life (been married 10 years, together 16 years).

My goal is to make things the least stressful on all of us as there's a fair deal of stress in our lives. That is really all that I want.

First of all you both are a team, and this requires a team talk and decision. Even if you SAHM, you should not be making every decision alone, that's very very lonely way to run a family.

Secondly, fine stay home, but still get some help. Night nanny, housekeeper. Then once child is 1 yo you can do Mom + Baby classes, then as a 2 or 3 yo do part-time preschool and then full-time PK4, etc. Then real school.

The toughest times are until the youngest child gets to Kindergarten. All hands on deck, toughest time on Mom, Dad, marriage. Get your house in order and get on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this has been discussed before. I'm expecting my first DC in less than a month (we're mid 30s; married 10 years), and daycare is going to cost more than my income. I work at a NGO and make 35k/year. DH is a big law associate (6L) and works long hours in litigation. I already have to do everything around the house although we do pay for cleaners to help once a month - and when I say everything I mean everything, such as I painted the house when we first bought it, fix broken things, take care of the yard/mow, grocery stop/pack lunches, etc. I got no issues doing it all because my DH is very appreciative and constantly shows it; also there is no fixing this beyond only adding more help - lawn people, more frequently cleaning, handymen, etc. Maybe it's my tired, pregnant brain, but I'm considering staying home once we add a kid to the mix.

So my question is, how are people's relationships affected if one is a stay at home?

Haven't you two talked about this already?
Maybe do it with a third party (rabbi, priest, counselor) and get down some personal and family goals for the short, medium and long term. THen talk about how congruent these goals are or are not.

If you know you are married to a workaholic potential rainmaker, he is never going to do things around the house unless YOU make it a family goal. Heck, he might even dial it down to a Fed atty or in-house counsel job which pay just fine, have more reasonable hours, and allow him to be a more involved spouse and father. What are his goals? What does he want his role to be in his own family? Just a paycheck? A thankful and grateful paycheck? Someone has to manage the homefront, raise the kids, plan the schedule. And it's not all outsourceable.

What did his parents do?

Finally, what are your goals? If you aren't planning a higher paying promotion or job step then that has to factor in b/c $35k W-2 income for 40 hours of work is very low. I say this as someone who has worked at non-profits but made $200k/year since age 30, w grad degree. If you just want a lifestyle NGO and are not accountable for ROI for donor funds or demonstrating what the donations did for the cause (i.e. Gates Foundation), then leaving the work force is NBD.

OP here again. I'm okay with him not helping out around the house (*gasp*). We talked about it long and hard prior him moving into Biglaw, and we both knew what we are signing up for. Part of that agreement is that I can outsource whatever I want for support without his prior input - thus the cleaners now. I get that it is not all outsourceable such as managing the finances, but I can handle most of it or outsource what I can't - cleaning, lawn, handyman, etc. My DH expresses his thanks daily, either verbally, physically, or small gifts (he brought home a jar of compass coffee nitro yesterday as he knows today is my telework today so I'll have it today) + is 100% supportive of anything I need/want. Just because it doesn't seem like a good life to you, doesn't mean it it doesn't work for us. I think it helps that my father was a CFO at a fortune 500 company, so I grew up and am used to life being a tad focused on someone's job; my father retired in 2000 and still works as a consultant to this day in his 80s - some people just have drive. And, quite honestly I don't want to work that hard at a job so I consider myself lucky that my DH has drive that I, well, don't. I always thought I'd like to work similar to my father, but I've found I enjoy working directly with people helping them - aka setting them up in apartments, taking them shopping for the first time, teaching them how the bus/metro works, etc. than sitting at my desk or having a meeting just to have a meeting.

To answer you other question, my DH's parents are both attorneys but from small firms in the midwest with just 1-3 offices. Only kid and he was very much a daycare then latch key kid.

Also I left a bigger name NGO a few years ago as I found the office environment to not be enjoyable for me as they were all about the bottom financial line (less focus on getting grants/contracts but drives for private donations to allow for more indirect/unnecessary spending) and not about the clients (kids) served. I went smaller with a slight pay cut as I'd rather appreciate my work that has/had set state funding vs. focusing heavily on development. I like focusing on the work itself more.

I'm pretty happy with my life now. Let's see what happens when DC comes along in a few weeks.

[Anonymous]

thanks, that's good, you guys have been discussing this, he is appreciative, and your mom did the same. You didn't like working at large companies, would rather help first-hand, etc.

just figure out what kind of parents, mother, father you each want to be and why. pub school or private school? 1, 2 or 3 kids. sports or music and when? how will dad bond w them?

[Anonymous]

I have similar set up OP. After our kids I just do minimal hours checking in on foster kids when my schedule allows. Pay is peanuts but DH consults and travels M-Th.
Now that the kids are in school, I can dial back up my writing, consulting, temple activities.

[Anonymous]

Op, you either need to get a new job that makes more in your field or you need to switch careers. Your current job sounds terrible and I don't think you are happy if you are posting here. Or just stay home as you seem to want that.

[Anonymous]

OP you seem pretty cut out to be a law partners wife and outsource things and manage the house. your mom did a version of it too. I think this is a pretty clear choice, as the downsides to other ppl honestly don't seem to apply here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

Absolutely agree. I really wish I could have stayed home's (couldn't afford to) - it felt absolutely unnatural to ship my kids off ALL day, and daycare is very rough on babies / toddlers. It's hard.

And yes, all of our friends who have divorced are dual income families, and I agree there's something to the idea that that lifestyle breeds resentment (and stress)

Well, all of our friends who have divorced had a SAHM. See how useless that information is?

And what happened to them all?

I heard they are all living in boxes on the street. There is a tent city that makes up most of Wisconsin that houses all of the SAHMs whose husbands left them completely penniless and without the skills for at least a minimum wage job and all of the adult children of working moms who started using drugs and having sex in high school because no one was around to tell them not to. It’s very sad.

this made me legitimately LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a baby around the same time as many of my friends and definitely have noticed a big difference in the marriages of SAHMs and working moms. I work for many reasons.

1. I really enjoy my job and I earn a relatively high salary (200k+) with flexible hours.
2. I enjoy getting out of the house and the interaction I have with other adults during the work week.
3. One of the main factors for me is that my husband contributes at home and we are equals. I would resent doing all of the housework, planning, organizing etc but maybe you don’t mind this.
4. I want my own retirement account.
5. I don’t want my entire life to only be about my husband and child. I have my own identity. My SAHM friends have become more boring and overly focused on their child as time goes by.

I’ve also noticed that many SAHMs think they are staying home for the benefit of their child but really it’s for them. And that’s fine. But I’m not sure it makes much difference to the children and as we know, the children won’t remember their early years. My nanny is excellent with my child. Some of the SAHMs I know are actually making huge parenting mistakes that maybe could be avoided if they weren’t the sole childcare provider for their child.

All of this being said, you need a new job. Working for $35k at your age is silly. Your benefits are terrible. I realize some people can’t find better jobs, but I assume you can. You should quit once the baby comes and then around 5 months postpartum try and find a new job. One with some flexibility so you spend enough time with your child. Just don’t stay out of the workforce too long and try to find a job where you can return if you have a second kid (at least 4 months of unpaid leave)

I agree 100% with all of this.

There is a VERY clear difference between most SAHM marriages and working mother marriages. Especially as the kids get older.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Working mother marriages are more likely to end in divorce. And the working mothers are fatter

This is true. DH and I have been married for 29 years. I SAH until our youngest started middle school then went back part time. All the couples we know who are divorced are dual income. I think the stress of that life sometimes creates a lot of resentment. Also, I simply do not believe working is better for babies and young children. How could it possibly be better for a child to spend 12 hours a day away from his mother? That goes against any logic. I guess maybe it makes sense if you are a crappy mother. But babies belong with their mothers. We are literally designed to keep them close. I understand that many people gave no choice. But it's certainly not ideal.

Goodness, you sound terribly old fashioned. Not to mention ignorant about what daycare can actually be like. Both DH and I work FT but our child has never spent 12 hours a day at daycare. Most days 9 hours. He LOVED daycare, and had so much fun there. I am certain he would have been bored senseless at home with either of us once he hit toddler age. I am not a crappy mother, but I have a strong feeling that if I stayed at home all the time with him, I could definitely become one. It is exhausting, tedious, mind numbing work to care for children all day long. For me, at least. I would have been miserable. I didn't HAVE to work. But it is better for our finances and sanity that I do.

[Anonymous]

I didn't stay home and it is so much more stressful with two working. Just stay home. Make your house a home. Make your marriage a priority. I am now trying to fix the mess we have made over 13 years of too much stress.