Conflict around family size

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to watch someone take away from you something for which you long with every fiber of your being. Let's see how angelic your behavior will be.

I think this is the OP- so you're saying that a second child is more important to you than having one child and staying with your husband? Your priorities are seriously fucked up if your idea of "big family" is lots of kids and no dad. Grieve the loss of your family ideal and move on. Or dump his ass, get pregnant, and raise two kids at 40.

This is not the OP. I am not saying that a second child is more important than having one child and staying with your husband, I don't believe I had. What I AM saying is that discovering my husband doesn't want a second child lowers his value in this calculation very substantially. What I am saying is that for me, it is impossible to have your presumable life partner do this to me, and emerge with my love and commitment for him unchanged. He betrayed me. I don't know if I will leave or stay. What I know is that I don't feel the same way about him. He is not the same person I married. You're trying to pretend this decision of his shouldn't have consequences, and the fact is that it does, and he shouldn't be able to pretend, or insist, that it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Wow, so many harsh comments to the OP. I completely empathize with OPs situation, I would feel that my family wasn't complete without at least 2 kids.

OP, here is another take on it from this man's perspective (and I am 37 which seems to me to be old to have another newborn with my youngest now 3). My suspicion is that your DH has reservations to having another kid because he doesn't want to go back to the newborn stage at his age. What if you offered to take on the vast majority (or all) of the child care, the midnight feeds, the hectic stuff that comes in the first year? What if you said upfront that you would be fine with him taking a couple vacations alone or a couple golf trips with his friends. Perhaps he is afraid of going back to the general sexlessness that happens when babies come around. As you said, it's not money or home that is his concern, so it's probably some type of lifestyle issue.

If my DW came to my now and wanted a 3rd, I would be very reluctant because I don't want to go back to the newborn exhaustion, sexless, vacationless years at my age. Her willingness to absorb the brunt of the first year or so would have me much more interested in coming along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ I really don't understand this bitterness. Yes, your husband changed his stance, but maybe having the first was harder than he anticipated. Do you really want to have a kid with someone who does not want to be a parent? Do you think your life will be better as a divorced, single parent? Sometimes, you need to grateful for what you have and maximize that experience instead spending so much of your energy thinking of what could have been.

You don't understand it because perhaps your dreams haven't been abruptly shattered by someone who is supposed to make you happy, and promised you he wanted the same things. Yes, go ahead and betray your husband and then tell him to suck it up and be grateful to even be married. That's an awesome recipe. I am grateful for my healthy son but I am not grateful to my husband. If he told me before marriage he only wanted one and done, I would not have married him. He is flushing my last fertile years down the toilet and you are telling me I have to suck it up and be grateful he even exists. Forgive me if this doesn't appeal.

And yes, actually, if we had a second child together and got divorced, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd have my children. Husbands come and go. Kids are forever.

Well, my dreams of a second child were shattered by infertility. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. I understand that you are in pain but you really need to work with someone to discover why having another child is so important to you - more important apparently than your relationship with your husband. What I'm reading suggests that you've lost the ability to think rationally about this. You're considering breaking up your family, and you talk about husbands as a throwaway when IMO you have it all backwards - your relationship with your spouse should always be primary. Children can succeed with only one dedicated parent, but there is no developmental expert alive who would suggest that anything trumps two committed and loving parents. I speak from experience as a child of divorce.

You need to be calm when speaking to your husband about this and ask him if he would consider therapy so you can both work through your feelings on this issue and try to come to a conclusion that satisfies you both. He probably cannot "help" how he feels about it anymore than you can. But in your pain and anger you are only seeing your side of it, and you need someone to blame.

[Anonymous]

Yeah but then the husband has to deal with a wife who is exhausted and resentful of picking up all the slack and I rt the impression OP wants her husband to want a kid AND to help raise it. It all sounds good in theory "I'll do all the work!" But it would never really work out like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

With this attitude, theonly response will be, "because your father and I got divorced." Seriously, if you would dump that resentment on a child, you are probably a major nightmare in other areas, too.

I wouldn't give this answer to my child, but that would in fact be the truth, wouldn't it. I don't know why you are so hell bent on painting the person who doesn't want children in the best possible light, when it is indeed his/her fault that the child doesn't have any siblings. Actions have consequences and you want to pretend this is not so. For this particular situation, the chain of cause and effect would be: husband didn't want any more children. That's why the child doesn't have any siblings. That's why the wife hates him. You're trying to pretend that these events aren't linked. But they are.

The truth is, the wife can get a divorce. We aren't bound in slavery to our husbands. If you and your partner cannot come to an agreement and it causes such resentment to fester, then it's a sign that you need to get a divorce. If you cannot decide TOGETHER on your course of action, your marriage is doomed. DH and I disagree on things, but when we come to a decision, we both own it. If DH truly did not want more children, I would have to come up with some way to deal with it, and wouldn't "hate" him.

If a kid asked me why he was an only child, I would say, "We decided X" or "why do you ask?". I know lots of "onlies" and they don't seem to be as scarred as you seem to think they will be. I wouldn't be surprised if you are actually making your kid feel worse about being an only than he would be otherwise. How awful. The dynamic you describe is a symptom of a serious dysfunction in your marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ I really don't understand this bitterness. Yes, your husband changed his stance, but maybe having the first was harder than he anticipated. Do you really want to have a kid with someone who does not want to be a parent? Do you think your life will be better as a divorced, single parent? Sometimes, you need to grateful for what you have and maximize that experience instead spending so much of your energy thinking of what could have been.

You don't understand it because perhaps your dreams haven't been abruptly shattered by someone who is supposed to make you happy, and promised you he wanted the same things. Yes, go ahead and betray your husband and then tell him to suck it up and be grateful to even be married. That's an awesome recipe. I am grateful for my healthy son but I am not grateful to my husband. If he told me before marriage he only wanted one and done, I would not have married him. He is flushing my last fertile years down the toilet and you are telling me I have to suck it up and be grateful he even exists. Forgive me if this doesn't appeal.

And yes, actually, if we had a second child together and got divorced, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd have my children. Husbands come and go. Kids are forever.

Well, my dreams of a second child were shattered by infertility. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. I understand that you are in pain but you really need to work with someone to discover why having another child is so important to you - more important apparently than your relationship with your husband. What I'm reading suggests that you've lost the ability to think rationally about this. You're considering breaking up your family, and you talk about husbands as a throwaway when IMO you have it all backwards - your relationship with your spouse should always be primary. Children can succeed with only one dedicated parent, but there is no developmental expert alive who would suggest that anything trumps two committed and loving parents. I speak from experience as a child of divorce.

You need to be calm when speaking to your husband about this and ask him if he would consider therapy so you can both work through your feelings on this issue and try to come to a conclusion that satisfies you both. He probably cannot "help" how he feels about it anymore than you can. But in your pain and anger you are only seeing your side of it, and you need someone to blame.

I understand what you're saying but I don't understand why you say that the relationship with the spouse is a primary value REGARDLESS of what the spouse does. Would you say the same thing if the spouse cheated? Abused drugs? Stole money? Separated the other spouse from friends and family? You're acting as if reneging on the promise of a second child is a value-free, consequence-free choice, like rye or whole wheat. It isn't. When someone causes you pain, you don't look at them with the same eyes any more. You begin to love them less. You wonder why they can be so blind to your pain. You wonder why the promise they made means so little. You wonder where else they would turn out to be not who they promised. So you see, it's not quite as easy as "husband is more important than anything else, sit down, shut up and be grateful you're married, and don't forget to kiss his feet while you're at it. You owe your child an intact family, even with the husband you despise and have no respect for." So I don't know why you think it's irrational to think that the husband is not quite the man you thought he was. I don't know why you insist the wife is in the wrong for resenting her husband for this. Not only is she wrong to want a second child, she's wrong to feel pain when she's kept from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to watch someone take away from you something for which you long with every fiber of your being. Let's see how angelic your behavior will be.

I think this is the OP- so you're saying that a second child is more important to you than having one child and staying with your husband? Your priorities are seriously fucked up if your idea of "big family" is lots of kids and no dad. Grieve the loss of your family ideal and move on. Or dump his ass, get pregnant, and raise two kids at 40.

This is not the OP. I am not saying that a second child is more important than having one child and staying with your husband, I don't believe I had. What I AM saying is that discovering my husband doesn't want a second child lowers his value in this calculation very substantially. What I am saying is that for me, it is impossible to have your presumable life partner do this to me, and emerge with my love and commitment for him unchanged. He betrayed me. I don't know if I will leave or stay. What I know is that I don't feel the same way about him. He is not the same person I married. You're trying to pretend this decision of his shouldn't have consequences, and the fact is that it does, and he shouldn't be able to pretend, or insist, that it doesn't.

I don't understand - it seems that from the conversation you had with him, after you purposely became pregnant, it wasn't clear that he was on board for #2. How on earth is this a betrayal? The person you married was on the fence. And now he's made his decision. This can't be the only issue your marriage. My guess is that there is something else going on, and this is just one thing that ticks you off. If you truly hate and resent him, and think you can't get over it, then it's probably best for everyone if you leave - your kid deserves better than to grow up in a house where her mother hates her father, especially since it'll be clear that it's because you wanted another kid. Whether or not you think it makes sense, your child WILL think 'mommy hates daddy because i wasn't enough." Children aren't rational . I agree with PP that you need to look at this from a grieving perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to watch someone take away from you something for which you long with every fiber of your being. Let's see how angelic your behavior will be.

I think this is the OP- so you're saying that a second child is more important to you than having one child and staying with your husband? Your priorities are seriously fucked up if your idea of "big family" is lots of kids and no dad. Grieve the loss of your family ideal and move on. Or dump his ass, get pregnant, and raise two kids at 40.

This is not the OP. I am not saying that a second child is more important than having one child and staying with your husband, I don't believe I had. What I AM saying is that discovering my husband doesn't want a second child lowers his value in this calculation very substantially. What I am saying is that for me, it is impossible to have your presumable life partner do this to me, and emerge with my love and commitment for him unchanged. He betrayed me. I don't know if I will leave or stay. What I know is that I don't feel the same way about him. He is not the same person I married. You're trying to pretend this decision of his shouldn't have consequences, and the fact is that it does, and he shouldn't be able to pretend, or insist, that it doesn't.

I don't understand - it seems that from the conversation you had with him, after you purposely became pregnant, it wasn't clear that he was on board for #2. How on earth is this a betrayal? The person you married was on the fence. And now he's made his decision. This can't be the only issue your marriage. My guess is that there is something else going on, and this is just one thing that ticks you off. If you truly hate and resent him, and think you can't get over it, then it's probably best for everyone if you leave - your kid deserves better than to grow up in a house where her mother hates her father, especially since it'll be clear that it's because you wanted another kid. Whether or not you think it makes sense, your child WILL think 'mommy hates daddy because i wasn't enough." Children aren't rational . I agree with PP that you need to look at this from a grieving perspective.

Oh, and - the chances of you finding another partner, getting married and having a kid easily, when you are already 40, is minimal. So when calculating what you want, do not assume that you will get another child outside of your current marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want to watch someone take away from you something for which you long with every fiber of your being. Let's see how angelic your behavior will be.

I think this is the OP- so you're saying that a second child is more important to you than having one child and staying with your husband? Your priorities are seriously fucked up if your idea of "big family" is lots of kids and no dad. Grieve the loss of your family ideal and move on. Or dump his ass, get pregnant, and raise two kids at 40.

This is not the OP. I am not saying that a second child is more important than having one child and staying with your husband, I don't believe I had. What I AM saying is that discovering my husband doesn't want a second child lowers his value in this calculation very substantially. What I am saying is that for me, it is impossible to have your presumable life partner do this to me, and emerge with my love and commitment for him unchanged. He betrayed me. I don't know if I will leave or stay. What I know is that I don't feel the same way about him. He is not the same person I married. You're trying to pretend this decision of his shouldn't have consequences, and the fact is that it does, and he shouldn't be able to pretend, or insist, that it doesn't.

I don't understand - it seems that from the conversation you had with him, after you purposely became pregnant, it wasn't clear that he was on board for #2. How on earth is this a betrayal? The person you married was on the fence. And now he's made his decision. This can't be the only issue your marriage. My guess is that there is something else going on, and this is just one thing that ticks you off. If you truly hate and resent him, and think you can't get over it, then it's probably best for everyone if you leave - your kid deserves better than to grow up in a house where her mother hates her father, especially since it'll be clear that it's because you wanted another kid. Whether or not you think it makes sense, your child WILL think 'mommy hates daddy because i wasn't enough." Children aren't rational . I agree with PP that you need to look at this from a grieving perspective.

I'm not the OP. My husband and I always planned more than one child, and were in fact trying as recently as this past winter. Then he abruptly pulled out by saying "it's too much responsibility."

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't it be something if the OP was unable to even concieve a secomd child? Imagine all this angst for absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be something if the OP was unable to even concieve a secomd child? Imagine all this angst for absolutely nothing.

That's a cruel statement. I imagine that there would be ever more angst - and probably deserved guilt on the husband for delaying the decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ I really don't understand this bitterness. Yes, your husband changed his stance, but maybe having the first was harder than he anticipated. Do you really want to have a kid with someone who does not want to be a parent? Do you think your life will be better as a divorced, single parent? Sometimes, you need to grateful for what you have and maximize that experience instead spending so much of your energy thinking of what could have been.

You don't understand it because perhaps your dreams haven't been abruptly shattered by someone who is supposed to make you happy, and promised you he wanted the same things. Yes, go ahead and betray your husband and then tell him to suck it up and be grateful to even be married. That's an awesome recipe. I am grateful for my healthy son but I am not grateful to my husband. If he told me before marriage he only wanted one and done, I would not have married him. He is flushing my last fertile years down the toilet and you are telling me I have to suck it up and be grateful he even exists. Forgive me if this doesn't appeal.

And yes, actually, if we had a second child together and got divorced, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd have my children. Husbands come and go. Kids are forever.

You are one selfish lady. It's all about you and what you want, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ I really don't understand this bitterness. Yes, your husband changed his stance, but maybe having the first was harder than he anticipated. Do you really want to have a kid with someone who does not want to be a parent? Do you think your life will be better as a divorced, single parent? Sometimes, you need to grateful for what you have and maximize that experience instead spending so much of your energy thinking of what could have been.

You don't understand it because perhaps your dreams haven't been abruptly shattered by someone who is supposed to make you happy, and promised you he wanted the same things. Yes, go ahead and betray your husband and then tell him to suck it up and be grateful to even be married. That's an awesome recipe. I am grateful for my healthy son but I am not grateful to my husband. If he told me before marriage he only wanted one and done, I would not have married him. He is flushing my last fertile years down the toilet and you are telling me I have to suck it up and be grateful he even exists. Forgive me if this doesn't appeal.

And yes, actually, if we had a second child together and got divorced, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd have my children. Husbands come and go. Kids are forever.

You are one selfish lady. It's all about you and what you want, right?

Husbands come and go? That, right there, is the problem with your marriage. You view marriage as a fleeting, temporary state. That's not how I view marriage. My guess is that a lot of PP's marital problems stem from a lack of committment to the marriage. No wnoder PP's DH doesn't want more children.

[Anonymous]

OP here - I think part of the issue is expectations about marriage - mine, my husband's, and a lot of yours -PPs. I'm not guided by strict religious or cultural traditions, nor is my husband. If we were strictly Catholic, e.g., we'd have those "rules" to guide us. If we believed that marriage was about pro-creation, then we'd likely have gotten married much younger, and started a family far sooner.

What I've realized about myself, is that I married partially for companionship, but a large part of marrying for me was also about having a family - children - not just one.

That's why family size is so integral to my "relationship" to my husband. Now if my husband were somehow unable to reproduce a second time, I wouldn't divorce him for that. But his stance reflects a value different than mine of what our marriage is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ I really don't understand this bitterness. Yes, your husband changed his stance, but maybe having the first was harder than he anticipated. Do you really want to have a kid with someone who does not want to be a parent? Do you think your life will be better as a divorced, single parent? Sometimes, you need to grateful for what you have and maximize that experience instead spending so much of your energy thinking of what could have been.

You don't understand it because perhaps your dreams haven't been abruptly shattered by someone who is supposed to make you happy, and promised you he wanted the same things. Yes, go ahead and betray your husband and then tell him to suck it up and be grateful to even be married. That's an awesome recipe. I am grateful for my healthy son but I am not grateful to my husband. If he told me before marriage he only wanted one and done, I would not have married him. He is flushing my last fertile years down the toilet and you are telling me I have to suck it up and be grateful he even exists. Forgive me if this doesn't appeal.

And yes, actually, if we had a second child together and got divorced, it wouldn't be so bad. I'd have my children. Husbands come and go. Kids are forever.

Well, my dreams of a second child were shattered by infertility. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. I understand that you are in pain but you really need to work with someone to discover why having another child is so important to you - more important apparently than your relationship with your husband. What I'm reading suggests that you've lost the ability to think rationally about this. You're considering breaking up your family, and you talk about husbands as a throwaway when IMO you have it all backwards - your relationship with your spouse should always be primary. Children can succeed with only one dedicated parent, but there is no developmental expert alive who would suggest that anything trumps two committed and loving parents. I speak from experience as a child of divorce.

You need to be calm when speaking to your husband about this and ask him if he would consider therapy so you can both work through your feelings on this issue and try to come to a conclusion that satisfies you both. He probably cannot "help" how he feels about it anymore than you can. But in your pain and anger you are only seeing your side of it, and you need someone to blame.

I understand what you're saying but I don't understand why you say that the relationship with the spouse is a primary value REGARDLESS of what the spouse does. Would you say the same thing if the spouse cheated? Abused drugs? Stole money? Separated the other spouse from friends and family? You're acting as if reneging on the promise of a second child is a value-free, consequence-free choice, like rye or whole wheat. It isn't. When someone causes you pain, you don't look at them with the same eyes any more. You begin to love them less. You wonder why they can be so blind to your pain. You wonder why the promise they made means so little. You wonder where else they would turn out to be not who they promised. So you see, it's not quite as easy as "husband is more important than anything else, sit down, shut up and be grateful you're married, and don't forget to kiss his feet while you're at it. You owe your child an intact family, even with the husband you despise and have no respect for." So I don't know why you think it's irrational to think that the husband is not quite the man you thought he was. I don't know why you insist the wife is in the wrong for resenting her husband for this. Not only is she wrong to want a second child, she's wrong to feel pain when she's kept from it.

OP, people change. Including spouses. When my husband and I married, neither one of us wanted children. Then I changed my mind, and my husband eventually did too. Once we had a child, he said he wanted three, I said I wanted two. Now we have one because we can't have more.
We have weathered all of this together, listened to each other, and maintained open lines of communication because we are a team and we respect each other as individuals.

In your anger, you are attributing things to me that I didn't say and imputing meanings that I neither inferred nor intended. I assume you are doing the same thing to your husband and he resents it. I don't blame him. My honest opinion is that YOU need help. This is YOUR problem, and you need to own it. You are not committed to your marriage unless everything is on your terms, which is selfish, immature and unrealistic. Sorry but it's true.