S/O: ‘The DIL is in the busiest chapter of her life; you have nothing to do’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

I think most of this is lovely and you sound like a very pleasant person but just don't like or overdo it. Telling people their kids are perfect and that they are the best parents sound incredibly insincere and like you are trying to just kiss-up or even manipulative, though I know you are just trying to ingratiate yourself. Even you admitted it's lying. Better to show you genuinely see the good and just note specific situations where you were impressed. Don't say the kids are "perfect" because it's hyperbole and disingenuous but do show you notice specific strengths. I have a mother who alienates everyone she gets close to with harsh criticism (as opposed to constructive) and downright mean comments and insults, but when she is trying to get something she goers the opposite extreme and gives tones of phony praise she doesn't believe. What feels good when connecting with someone is genuine behavior. Don't be sycophantic.

My off the cuff post is really not worthy of any
, but since I'm done with today's worlds and crossword, here goes.

In my social bubble, its not uncommon to tell the bride, she's the most beautiful bride you've ever seen. Is this true? Probably not. Does she think its true? No idea. Is anyone saying this in front of another women who recently got married? Absolutely not.

Clearly this sort of hyperbole doesn't go over well with some. Maybe the majority? I'm old, do it all the time, perhaps I shouldn't. To be honest it would take a pretty big adjustment but I've managed to quit randomly hugging everybody when conversations about body autonomy became mainstream, so there's hope. When I made a serious effort to tone down my extrovert tendencies a while back, two very worried friends reached out privately wondering if I was ill.

Every relationship is unique, so what works for one MIL/DIL may not for anyone else. Just like when you may have to parent each of your children in a different manner, while trying your best to make it all seem absolutely even handed. Because while fairness is important needs are often different.

[Anonymous]

*worthy of analysis

[Anonymous]

Some of you that don’t want your MIL to compliment you and your kids sound insane to me. My MIL often says I’m a great/amazing mom and also throws in that I’m a great/amazing wife sometimes. I tend to cringe a tiny bit on the great wife part since I think of that as a little old fashioned. But I know she loves me and means well. I’m super appreciative she feels this way about me. We have two kids with complicated medical stuff so this means a lot to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having a cousins baby shower has nothing to do with them. Stop volunteering I’d you are so busy.

+1. Nobody is forcing you to do this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you that don’t want your MIL to compliment you and your kids sound insane to me. My MIL often says I’m a great/amazing mom and also throws in that I’m a great/amazing wife sometimes. I tend to cringe a tiny bit on the great wife part since I think of that as a little old fashioned. But I know she loves me and means well. I’m super appreciative she feels this way about me. We have two kids with complicated medical stuff so this means a lot to me.

There are tons of MIL haters on DCUM (and IRL). My SIL constantly complains about her MIL that lives across the country, and she only has to actually see once every other year at Christmas. SIL only has boys. Karma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Put it in perspective. My parents and in laws have been retired for over 20 years and their youngest left home before then. - They've had basically no responsibility for taking care of anyone else AND no job responsibilities for 20 years.

Yes they have forgotten. And also they aren't the same people they were on the day they retired.

I'll get flamed for this but IMO, that why boomers seem so self centered sometimes. They just have been the center of their own worlds for decades.

Having such a long retirement is unusual for most boomers. The soonest some of us can retire is 65 but later boomers have to wait until 67 for Medicare. If you had your kids in your mid- to late 30s or 40s, you are still working to pay for their college as well as your retirement. Mortgage is not paid off and auto/property insurance keeps climbing. Your parents are fortunate. After the blows of several recessions and the pandemic, many of us cannot afford to retire but we still hope to help our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Put it in perspective. My parents and in laws have been retired for over 20 years and their youngest left home before then. - They've had basically no responsibility for taking care of anyone else AND no job responsibilities for 20 years.

Yes they have forgotten. And also they aren't the same people they were on the day they retired.

I'll get flamed for this but IMO, that why boomers seem so self centered sometimes. They just have been the center of their own worlds for decades.

Having such a long retirement is unusual for most boomers. The soonest some of us can retire is 65 but later boomers have to wait until 67 for Medicare. If you had your kids in your mid- to late 30s or 40s, you are still working to pay for their college as well as your retirement. Mortgage is not paid off and auto/property insurance keeps climbing. Your parents are fortunate. After the blows of several recessions and the pandemic, many of us cannot afford to retire but we still hope to help our kids.

Correction: wait for full Social Security, not Medicare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you that don’t want your MIL to compliment you and your kids sound insane to me. My MIL often says I’m a great/amazing mom and also throws in that I’m a great/amazing wife sometimes. I tend to cringe a tiny bit on the great wife part since I think of that as a little old fashioned. But I know she loves me and means well. I’m super appreciative she feels this way about me. We have two kids with complicated medical stuff so this means a lot to me.

You're wrong. We don't want insincere compliments. I don't want to be told how amazing and perfect I am when I am feeling that I am behind and not being the mom/wife/employee I want to be. Just help me by volunteering to take your grandkids a few hours in the evening or weekend or pick up a fill-in grocery order, etc. if I'm throwing a family bbq, come over early to help me set up or watch the kids. Think about what help you needed and offer those things. I don't need flattery and deference to my mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you that don’t want your MIL to compliment you and your kids sound insane to me. My MIL often says I’m a great/amazing mom and also throws in that I’m a great/amazing wife sometimes. I tend to cringe a tiny bit on the great wife part since I think of that as a little old fashioned. But I know she loves me and means well. I’m super appreciative she feels this way about me. We have two kids with complicated medical stuff so this means a lot to me.

You're wrong. We don't want insincere compliments. I don't want to be told how amazing and perfect I am when I am feeling that I am behind and not being the mom/wife/employee I want to be. Just help me by volunteering to take your grandkids a few hours in the evening or weekend or pick up a fill-in grocery order, etc. if I'm throwing a family bbq, come over early to help me set up or watch the kids. Think about what help you needed and offer those things. I don't need flattery and deference to my mom.

NP- Agreed! Also, deference to my mom also hurts dh's feelings. He wonders why his family doesn't interact, help us, or visit us and only my family does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Put it in perspective. My parents and in laws have been retired for over 20 years and their youngest left home before then. - They've had basically no responsibility for taking care of anyone else AND no job responsibilities for 20 years.

Yes they have forgotten. And also they aren't the same people they were on the day they retired.

I'll get flamed for this but IMO, that why boomers seem so self centered sometimes. They just have been the center of their own worlds for decades.

Having such a long retirement is unusual for most boomers. The soonest some of us can retire is 65 but later boomers have to wait until 67 for Medicare. If you had your kids in your mid- to late 30s or 40s, you are still working to pay for their college as well as your retirement. Mortgage is not paid off and auto/property insurance keeps climbing. Your parents are fortunate. After the blows of several recessions and the pandemic, many of us cannot afford to retire but we still hope to help our kids.

I know right? My boomer mom worked until she was 67 so she could get Medicare. And she helped me raise my kids. Very thankful for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're ready, but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

I think most of this is lovely and you sound like a very pleasant person but just don't like or overdo it. Telling people their kids are perfect and that they are the best parents sound incredibly insincere and like you are trying to just kiss-up or even manipulative, though I know you are just trying to ingratiate yourself. Even you admitted it's lying. Better to show you genuinely see the good and just note specific situations where you were impressed. Don't say the kids are "perfect" because it's hyperbole and disingenuous but do show you notice specific strengths. I have a mother who alienates everyone she gets close to with harsh criticism (as opposed to constructive) and downright mean comments and insults, but when she is trying to get something she goers the opposite extreme and gives tones of phony praise she doesn't believe. What feels good when connecting with someone is genuine behavior. Don't be sycophantic.

My off the cuff post is really not worthy of any
, but since I'm done with today's worlds and crossword, here goes.

In my social bubble, its not uncommon to tell the bride, she's the most beautiful bride you've ever seen. Is this true? Probably not. Does she think its true? No idea. Is anyone saying this in front of another women who recently got married? Absolutely not.

Clearly this sort of hyperbole doesn't go over well with some. Maybe the majority? I'm old, do it all the time, perhaps I shouldn't. To be honest it would take a pretty big adjustment but I've managed to quit randomly hugging everybody when conversations about body autonomy became mainstream, so there's hope. When I made a serious effort to tone down my extrovert tendencies a while back, two very worried friends reached out privately wondering if I was ill.

Every relationship is unique, so what works for one MIL/DIL may not for anyone else. Just like when you may have to parent each of your children in a different manner, while trying your best to make it all seem absolutely even handed. Because while fairness is important needs are often different.

Most brides do look beautiful on their wedding day. If you don't agree, by all means keep it to yourself but you can still say somethinfg true and nice about her efforts. I thank God for my honest MIL because any compliment was true and specific and criticisms were almost nil.

[Anonymous]

On the compliments, if it’s hyperbolic, completely insincere, manipulative or plain weird then yeah it’s bad. Before the old rumps throw their hands in the air “well I just can’t win” take a second, step back and realize that simply acting normal is what works.

1. Remember that you are a visitor. Behave the way you would with a friend or coworker.
2. Treat your anxiety. Many elders develop anxiety but rather than treat it, they simply dump it on everyone around them.
3. Widen your own social circle, volunteer, join organizations, host and attend book clubs, etc. If your only interaction is with your spouse and the retail clerks, you are going to get weird and not no how to behave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you that don’t want your MIL to compliment you and your kids sound insane to me. My MIL often says I’m a great/amazing mom and also throws in that I’m a great/amazing wife sometimes. I tend to cringe a tiny bit on the great wife part since I think of that as a little old fashioned. But I know she loves me and means well. I’m super appreciative she feels this way about me. We have two kids with complicated medical stuff so this means a lot to me.

You're wrong. We don't want insincere compliments. I don't want to be told how amazing and perfect I am when I am feeling that I am behind and not being the mom/wife/employee I want to be. Just help me by volunteering to take your grandkids a few hours in the evening or weekend or pick up a fill-in grocery order, etc. if I'm throwing a family bbq, come over early to help me set up or watch the kids. Think about what help you needed and offer those things. I don't need flattery and deference to my mom.

Most people can't tell the different between sincere and insincere. They really think their wedding was the best wedding ever. The most fun, best food, tastiest cake, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such a great thread. Thank you for posting it OP.

Ok, both my kids are in college now so there is probably many years ahead still until they hopefully settle down and have kids. But everyone here has got me thinking. What would the ideal relationship between ILs/parents and their adult children with families be or involve? I can think of some things but I'm sure I am missing many others:

1. the obvious things like not putting extra pressure on DIL/Son-in-law/adult children to visit us, host me, call, etc. etc.
2. if living in close proximity, offer to babysit and as grandkids grow older offer to have them come for sleepovers
3. again, if living close enough, offer to help with any carpooling
4. if not living in close proximity, offer to take grandkids for a week+ over the summer; again, help with babysitting

In a different vein, I can see the following should also be on this list:
5. remember how hard it really is to raise young kids, balance work and home life and all the things that all of that involves
6. really try to not have unfair expectations of your DIL/Son-in-law/adult children expecting them to fit us in to their busy schedules just because we "are here!"; instead the goal is to add value to their lives when we visit
7. remember that as much as we all love one another remember that on a day-to-day basis, parents to grown adults with families are just not as relevant anymore and that that is okay - it is just the cycle of life

What else?

Advice/ observations from a mother of sons, MIL and grandmother.

For better or worse, you've had your turn raising children. Your children deserve their turn without your micromanaging.

Please let go of any and all expectations. Let your adult offspring know you'll always offer help and support to the extent of your abilities. But wait for them to ask! Don't intrude. Let them call you, and thank them for the call. Ask them what they want to do for holidays and vacations and be happy with whatever they propose. That doesn't mean you can't decide you're having Thanksgiving at your house this year (for whatever reason) but don't guilt them if they don't come.

Follow their house rules when you visit. Tell them they are wonderful parents. Tell them their children are perfect. Yes, we all know this is a polite fiction but your job is to praise and be supportive unless asked for advice. If DIL asks for advice, pause thoughtfully, and ask what her mother thinks before you say another word. If DIL tells you she doesn't know how on earth you did it all, tell her you had lots and lots of help. You didn't do it on your own. She's the best mother you know.

Don't show up at the hospital for births unless invited. Say you're very excited to visit or to help out whenever they're
Howeverld us all her friends but wait for that call. When they do call...go asap. Have no opinion on breast vs bottle other than baby looks perfect so obviously being fed correctly.

Don't be competitive or jealous with the other grandparents.

I could go on all day... nice break from wordle. And of course all this advice is for normal kinds of circumstances.

The bolded above in particular caught my attention and I think it deserves to be discussed. I think that the PP who does this is incredibly insightful. To ask what the DIL's mother thinks -- to recognize that this younger woman who your son selected as his wife has her own mother -- is to me a sign of sensitivity and respect. It tells the DIL that you are there for her but that you also know the hierarchy. Before everyone comes at me for using the word "hierarchy" please really think about the relationships involved. If the DIL has a healthy relationship with her own mother, she can of course still have a rich and wonderful one with her MIL but the fact will always remain that the DIL's own mother is a slight bit above. It is just the natural order. I think if more MIL's recognized this of their relationships with their DIL's so many of the issues that come up might be averted.

Thanks so much. At the risk of derailing a thread focused on DILs, a few random observations on being a MIL. My mother and I were incredibly close. She was my care taker during pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum, and the most amazing grandmother ever. And that's absolutely not hyperbole. Every one of her daughters' children would tell you the same. it was a challenge for her to have a married son and have a different place in that family hierarchy,. (Love your description). She did the best she could, but always worried that relationship wasn't what she might have hoped for. But seemingly it was good enough, because my SIL gave a tearful eulogy praising her as the best MIL ever. She told us all her friends were always complaining about their MILs and she just felt so sorry for them because she had the best MIL ever. (more bubble dependent hyperbole) but I think it was sincere because SIL repeatedly brings up my mom as a model of how to be a MIL. Recently she told me her best friend's son had gotten engaged and she asked friend what she had sent fiancee after announcement. Friend asks," I'm supposed to send her a gift?" SIL: "Yes, absolutely. That's what my MIL did". Over and over she'll mention to me she's doing something a certain way, " because that's how your mom did it".

Good lessons for me. I know I'm not going to be the number one grandma, but that's okay. My goal is best number two back up possible. However, the huge surprise is how much of a relief it was my son had a MIL. Almost my first thought on getting engagement news was now there is another mom. If something happens to me, he still has a mom. Huge relief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do get it. They've done it already.

OP has a point, but I've also seen women here complain about the ILs overstepping by simply doing the dishes. Full on tantrum about MIL folding the laundry or vacuuming or the mere offer to help a postpartum DIL is a violation of boundaries. The ILs are in a lose - lose too.

This and the fighting over who is "hosting" the holiday dinners. These martyrs want to take that burden on to their overflowing plates for whatever reason. They complain about doing it all, but then insist on doing it all. No wonder their husbands back off and sit on the couch, they complain about that too. Whatever happens, there will be complaints so why bother?

+1