Is my spouse being stingy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - do you have access/login and checkbook to the account where your spouse keeps the $8/k savings? If not, sorry to break it but it will be extremely easy for him to clear the account in the event of divorce and you would have to spend hundreds of thousands to recover it or get a higher share in other assets to compensate you. That all sounds super fishy to me with his plans to scale back his work, controlling you, and not being really involved in family and childcare.

Fishy how? No I don't have access to the personal account. I only have access to the shared family account.

In marriage all accounts are joint property. Regardless on whose name it is. I just explained to your above that you basically don't have access to a major account with ALL family liquid savings. You are either naive or a total fool to enable it, and believe that he doesn't have any back thoughts about your marriage future. Do you have 100K to spend on lawyers and forensic accountants to see how much was in that account and get your 50% ? That would take 2-3 years of litigation. And this is why he keeps it separate. There could be individual accounts in marriage for small expenses like hobbies, presents etc but major savings should be kept on a joint account, particular when one spouse is SAH.

I would NEVER be able to sleep well at night having kids, no job and such financial setup in marriage

I don't really know how divorce affects financial splits, so I'm curious to know. I don't expect that we will divorce, but I'm not naiive enough to think it could never happen to us.

I don't believe my spouse is intentionally hiding anything from me. If I ask, I'm told exactly how much is in the account, and if I were to ask for a login and pw to the account, I'm sure I would be given it, I just haven't done so. It could be a control thing, but not in a malicious way, more in a way of my spouse just likes to remain in control of their financial future, and a dislike for changing the way they've done things for all their lives.

This is insanity to me.
It's one thing if you tell him that you won't access the account to remove money, but it's a whole nother to NOT be able to access it at all of you wanted to.

You do realize that of he wanted to leave you, he could... you have no idea how much is in the account, you have no idea how to access the account, your name is not on the account, and now you've just told us that he's had that account long before he married you, so you would be wholeheartedly screwed in that situation.

As the pp said, you would need a forensic accountant to find anything out and that would cost YOU at least $100k if he divorces you.

Do you have ANY clue how much is in it -- like any idea or estimate?
Do you know if there's around $8,000 or $80,000 or $800,000 or 8,000,000??
Have you ever seen a statement?
And you've NEVER asked because... why, again?

You say "you're sure" he would give you the account & password (uh, you don't even know the account number!? Do you know what bank is in at least?) if you asked, but ARE you really sure he would? and why again, haven't you asked?

This sounds like complete insanity and just about as perfect a way to get royally s€rewed in a divorce or be royally s€rewing someone else without the little woman ever finding out.

I know exactly how much is in the account. If you're telling me I'm putting myself in a vulnerable position, I am listening and willing to learn, if you'd take a pause from berating me and offer some advice. I can ask to have my name put on the account as well, if that makes a difference. I guess I assumed that what's his is ours when we are married, but I really have not done the research on how all that would work out in the event of a divorce.

Yes OP, this is exactly what you should ask him to do. I'm not sure how it even didn't cross your mind! My husband and I went to banks together and had me added to all accounts (his pre-marital account remained separate only his name on it but I still was receiving monthly statements).

Go to bank tomorrow

The personal account is a pre-marital account. I guess I'll see what the response is. Maybe we can work this all out as we figure out our financial plan for next year.

He should have kept funds that were there prior to marriage and opened a new joint account for all post marital savings first week you got married. What he does now is depositing all marital savings into account that’s individual so he could commingle with premarital funds and later argue it’s all separate.

OP you know you are screwed and don’t want to argue with him, this you keep delaying this big convo till next year.

I just have to tread lightly as there's some stubbornness around this issue and I think it is more about control about his own future and fearing change. We have argued about the personal account early on in our marriage. He has always wanted separate accounts. Eventually we compromised and I opened up a joint account where he would put some money into it each month. When I stopped working, I closed my business account, so now we only have the joint family account, and then his pre-marital personal account that contains all our savings. I still have some old pre-marital CDs that don't amount to much, but they are something. And I poured most of my pre-marital savings into the deposit on our first home, and also our wedding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - do you have access/login and checkbook to the account where your spouse keeps the $8/k savings? If not, sorry to break it but it will be extremely easy for him to clear the account in the event of divorce and you would have to spend hundreds of thousands to recover it or get a higher share in other assets to compensate you. That all sounds super fishy to me with his plans to scale back his work, controlling you, and not being really involved in family and childcare.

Fishy how? No I don't have access to the personal account. I only have access to the shared family account.

In marriage all accounts are joint property. Regardless on whose name it is. I just explained to your above that you basically don't have access to a major account with ALL family liquid savings. You are either naive or a total fool to enable it, and believe that he doesn't have any back thoughts about your marriage future. Do you have 100K to spend on lawyers and forensic accountants to see how much was in that account and get your 50% ? That would take 2-3 years of litigation. And this is why he keeps it separate. There could be individual accounts in marriage for small expenses like hobbies, presents etc but major savings should be kept on a joint account, particular when one spouse is SAH.

I would NEVER be able to sleep well at night having kids, no job and such financial setup in marriage

I don't really know how divorce affects financial splits, so I'm curious to know. I don't expect that we will divorce, but I'm not naiive enough to think it could never happen to us.

I don't believe my spouse is intentionally hiding anything from me. If I ask, I'm told exactly how much is in the account, and if I were to ask for a login and pw to the account, I'm sure I would be given it, I just haven't done so. It could be a control thing, but not in a malicious way, more in a way of my spouse just likes to remain in control of their financial future, and a dislike for changing the way they've done things for all their lives.

This is insanity to me.
It's one thing if you tell him that you won't access the account to remove money, but it's a whole nother to NOT be able to access it at all of you wanted to.

You do realize that of he wanted to leave you, he could... you have no idea how much is in the account, you have no idea how to access the account, your name is not on the account, and now you've just told us that he's had that account long before he married you, so you would be wholeheartedly screwed in that situation.

As the pp said, you would need a forensic accountant to find anything out and that would cost YOU at least $100k if he divorces you.

Do you have ANY clue how much is in it -- like any idea or estimate?
Do you know if there's around $8,000 or $80,000 or $800,000 or 8,000,000??
Have you ever seen a statement?
And you've NEVER asked because... why, again?

You say "you're sure" he would give you the account & password (uh, you don't even know the account number!? Do you know what bank is in at least?) if you asked, but ARE you really sure he would? and why again, haven't you asked?

This sounds like complete insanity and just about as perfect a way to get royally s€rewed in a divorce or be royally s€rewing someone else without the little woman ever finding out.

I know exactly how much is in the account. If you're telling me I'm putting myself in a vulnerable position, I am listening and willing to learn, if you'd take a pause from berating me and offer some advice. I can ask to have my name put on the account as well, if that makes a difference. I guess I assumed that what's his is ours when we are married, but I really have not done the research on how all that would work out in the event of a divorce.

Yes OP, this is exactly what you should ask him to do. I'm not sure how it even didn't cross your mind! My husband and I went to banks together and had me added to all accounts (his pre-marital account remained separate only his name on it but I still was receiving monthly statements).

Go to bank tomorrow

The personal account is a pre-marital account. I guess I'll see what the response is. Maybe we can work this all out as we figure out our financial plan for next year.

He should have kept funds that were there prior to marriage and opened a new joint account for all post marital savings first week you got married. What he does now is depositing all marital savings into account that’s individual so he could commingle with premarital funds and later argue it’s all separate.

OP you know you are screwed and don’t want to argue with him, this you keep delaying this big convo till next year.

I just have to tread lightly as there's some stubbornness around this issue and I think it is more about control about his own future and fearing change. We have argued about the personal account early on in our marriage. He has always wanted separate accounts. Eventually we compromised and I opened up a joint account where he would put some money into it each month. When I stopped working, I closed my business account, so now we only have the joint family account, and then his pre-marital personal account that contains all our savings. I still have some old pre-marital CDs that don't amount to much, but they are something. And I poured most of my pre-marital savings into the deposit on our first home, and also our wedding.

OP - I really can't tell if you're for real. As you're writing this out, assuming you are for real, you have to see and know how precarious your position is here, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - do you have access/login and checkbook to the account where your spouse keeps the $8/k savings? If not, sorry to break it but it will be extremely easy for him to clear the account in the event of divorce and you would have to spend hundreds of thousands to recover it or get a higher share in other assets to compensate you. That all sounds super fishy to me with his plans to scale back his work, controlling you, and not being really involved in family and childcare.

Fishy how? No I don't have access to the personal account. I only have access to the shared family account.

In marriage all accounts are joint property. Regardless on whose name it is. I just explained to your above that you basically don't have access to a major account with ALL family liquid savings. You are either naive or a total fool to enable it, and believe that he doesn't have any back thoughts about your marriage future. Do you have 100K to spend on lawyers and forensic accountants to see how much was in that account and get your 50% ? That would take 2-3 years of litigation. And this is why he keeps it separate. There could be individual accounts in marriage for small expenses like hobbies, presents etc but major savings should be kept on a joint account, particular when one spouse is SAH.

I would NEVER be able to sleep well at night having kids, no job and such financial setup in marriage

I don't really know how divorce affects financial splits, so I'm curious to know. I don't expect that we will divorce, but I'm not naiive enough to think it could never happen to us.

I don't believe my spouse is intentionally hiding anything from me. If I ask, I'm told exactly how much is in the account, and if I were to ask for a login and pw to the account, I'm sure I would be given it, I just haven't done so. It could be a control thing, but not in a malicious way, more in a way of my spouse just likes to remain in control of their financial future, and a dislike for changing the way they've done things for all their lives.

This is insanity to me.
It's one thing if you tell him that you won't access the account to remove money, but it's a whole nother to NOT be able to access it at all of you wanted to.

You do realize that of he wanted to leave you, he could... you have no idea how much is in the account, you have no idea how to access the account, your name is not on the account, and now you've just told us that he's had that account long before he married you, so you would be wholeheartedly screwed in that situation.

As the pp said, you would need a forensic accountant to find anything out and that would cost YOU at least $100k if he divorces you.

Do you have ANY clue how much is in it -- like any idea or estimate?
Do you know if there's around $8,000 or $80,000 or $800,000 or 8,000,000??
Have you ever seen a statement?
And you've NEVER asked because... why, again?

You say "you're sure" he would give you the account & password (uh, you don't even know the account number!? Do you know what bank is in at least?) if you asked, but ARE you really sure he would? and why again, haven't you asked?

This sounds like complete insanity and just about as perfect a way to get royally s€rewed in a divorce or be royally s€rewing someone else without the little woman ever finding out.

I know exactly how much is in the account. If you're telling me I'm putting myself in a vulnerable position, I am listening and willing to learn, if you'd take a pause from berating me and offer some advice. I can ask to have my name put on the account as well, if that makes a difference. I guess I assumed that what's his is ours when we are married, but I really have not done the research on how all that would work out in the event of a divorce.

Yes OP, this is exactly what you should ask him to do. I'm not sure how it even didn't cross your mind! My husband and I went to banks together and had me added to all accounts (his pre-marital account remained separate only his name on it but I still was receiving monthly statements).

Go to bank tomorrow

The personal account is a pre-marital account. I guess I'll see what the response is. Maybe we can work this all out as we figure out our financial plan for next year.

He should have kept funds that were there prior to marriage and opened a new joint account for all post marital savings first week you got married. What he does now is depositing all marital savings into account that’s individual so he could commingle with premarital funds and later argue it’s all separate.

OP you know you are screwed and don’t want to argue with him, this you keep delaying this big convo till next year.

I just have to tread lightly as there's some stubbornness around this issue and I think it is more about control about his own future and fearing change. We have argued about the personal account early on in our marriage. He has always wanted separate accounts. Eventually we compromised and I opened up a joint account where he would put some money into it each month. When I stopped working, I closed my business account, so now we only have the joint family account, and then his pre-marital personal account that contains all our savings. I still have some old pre-marital CDs that don't amount to much, but they are something. And I poured most of my pre-marital savings into the deposit on our first home, and also our wedding.

OP - I really can't tell if you're for real. As you're writing this out, assuming you are for real, you have to see and know how precarious your position is here, right?

Yes, it's always been on the back of my mind that I'm in a precarious position. However, I think trust just over-rode that concern. Also I just didn't have all the facts of how it would all work in the event of the divorce, and I don't really want to hire an attorney to do so. There is still some ambiguity in my mind as to whether we would split the savings in that personal account, because logically speaking, it seems obvious that those are marital assets. He made that money while we were married, and while I may not be working now, I was working before, and I financially supported us in the beginning. Of course, all those accounts are closed by now, so I'm realizing now that I have no actual paper trail that it happened that way.

Finances has historically been a tricky topic for us, although it has gotten a bit better and I think we can work this out now. And so yes, some of it was avoidance, because it inevitably led to a fight. But our finances have changed drastically in the last 4 years. Previous to that, we still had a big mortgage, and my spouse had over $150k left in school loans.

[Anonymous]

So he’s putting away about 125k a year in his personal account? And your budget is 42k a year for everything? What is he putting away for your retirement? His? Do r you have a joint investment account? What about college? I worry for your future. That money should be joint. Also you put premarital money in the home. Why is his separate? Look I know you don’t think divorce is in the cards but honestly anything can happen and this level of secrecy and control would be unsettling to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he’s putting away about 125k a year in his personal account? And your budget is 42k a year for everything? What is he putting away for your retirement? His? Do r you have a joint investment account? What about college? I worry for your future. That money should be joint. Also you put premarital money in the home. Why is his separate? Look I know you don’t think divorce is in the cards but honestly anything can happen and this level of secrecy and control would be unsettling to me.

More like $100k/yr, but not exactly sure. I end up using closer to $50k/yr, because inevitably I end up paying for some of the bigger expenses like a new appliance after our old one breaks, furniture, or I plan and book family trips.

We have a joint investment account. We have a college fund. There's no secrecy, really I just think it's inertia and a hesitancy to change things.

[Anonymous]

Pp here- many states are not community property states but rather equitable distribution which could require lots of legal fees to sort out and argue who gets what: it’s not automatically 50-50 and he could certainly work hard to argue that he gets to keep more because he earned it. Either way she doesn’t have access to funds which is frightening. . Op is also super vulnerable if he up and leaves: she would have to get court order to pay bills etc if he refused. It’s really unfair that op has no access to finances. He is using money to control and because she is not currently working because she is totally dependent on him.

If he goes part time and refuses to do household stuff then you should make him
Pay for the cleaners out if “his” money! Or out the entirety of your Kay heck in your account and he gets to do the family budget from his part time job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he’s putting away about 125k a year in his personal account? And your budget is 42k a year for everything? What is he putting away for your retirement? His? Do r you have a joint investment account? What about college? I worry for your future. That money should be joint. Also you put premarital money in the home. Why is his separate? Look I know you don’t think divorce is in the cards but honestly anything can happen and this level of secrecy and control would be unsettling to me.

More like $100k/yr, but not exactly sure. I end up using closer to $50k/yr, because inevitably I end up paying for some of the bigger expenses like a new appliance after our old one breaks, furniture, or I plan and book family trips.

We have a joint investment account. We have a college fund. There's no secrecy, really I just think it's inertia and a hesitancy to change things.

Also, our assets have grown considerably just in recent years. So prior to that, it seemed less precarious. But now that our assets have grown, I can see that maybe we need to take another look at how we are doing things.

[Anonymous]

Maybe you can frame it to him in estate/life planning terms . Like if he is hit by a bus you need to know what to do and be able to access funds. You need your name on those accounts. I also think you should not be having to do the budget while he dispenses money. If the money is supposedly all shared why don’t you just have one joint account?

[Anonymous]

OP - you shouldn’t have birthed so many children with him if there were disagreements in the beginning about such basic things like joint budget. And now you need to go back to work asap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you can frame it to him in estate/life planning terms . Like if he is hit by a bus you need to know what to do and be able to access funds. You need your name on those accounts. I also think you should not be having to do the budget while he dispenses money. If the money is supposedly all shared why don’t you just have one joint account?

Yes, good point. Historically, we haven't had that much money in the personal account, so it wasn't a big priority. But we do need to get more financially responsible. I don't think he even remembers how to access our joint account, so wouldn't be able to access it without my help. In other words, we have to wake up and get all our ducks in a row.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife stays at home and has full access to all the money. All of my income (750k-1mil) goes into two separate joint accounts.
She doesn’t need to check in with me or ask to spend anything. I don’t even look at the accounts.

If I acted like your husband does, I would feel like a controlling ahole. And that is not the type of marriage I want.

Ding ding ding! This person hit the nail on the head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp here- many states are not community property states but rather equitable distribution which could require lots of legal fees to sort out and argue who gets what: it’s not automatically 50-50 and he could certainly work hard to argue that he gets to keep more because he earned it. Either way she doesn’t have access to funds which is frightening. . Op is also super vulnerable if he up and leaves: she would have to get court order to pay bills etc if he refused. It’s really unfair that op has no access to finances. He is using money to control and because she is not currently working because she is totally dependent on him.

If he goes part time and refuses to do household stuff then you should make him
Pay for the cleaners out if “his” money! Or out the entirety of your Kay heck in your account and he gets to do the family budget from his part time job.

OP here and I learned that we live in an "equitable distribution" state. What that means, for the most part, is that my spouse's personal account is considered a marital asset (minus what he had in there before marriage, which was nothing). It's considered a marital asset because he deposited money into it during our marriage that wasn't solely his money (like an inheritance would be). This is from a bit of amateur google legal research, so if anyone else has more professional knowledge to share, please do so.

However, PP above is correct that if the two parties can't agree on how to split assets equitably on their own, then it may require a bit of a legal process to sort through, and many things are taken into consideration by the court. Things like age, future employability, contribution of one party to the increased earning power of the other party, contribution by a party in appreciation of property, established standard of living, etc.

Also a couple surprising stats:
- Among U.S. couples who are married, in a civil partnership or live together, 43 percent have only joint bank accounts.
- Many couples (34 percent) have a mix of joint and separate bank accounts, while 23 percent have completely separate accounts.

[Anonymous]

You say talking money has always been a sensitive topic with him. Why? If everything he is doing is on the up and up and benefits the partnership, why can't he discuss this with you and make the necessary changes to make you comfortable? Something is not right here. I would get to the bottom of this before it is too late. Many people are blind sided by affairs and divorces. If this happens to you, you are in a really bad position. To me, someone who won't compromise on money during the marriage, will have no problem sc**ing you big time in a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You say talking money has always been a sensitive topic with him. Why? If everything he is doing is on the up and up and benefits the partnership, why can't he discuss this with you and make the necessary changes to make you comfortable? Something is not right here. I would get to the bottom of this before it is too late. Many people are blind sided by affairs and divorces. If this happens to you, you are in a really bad position. To me, someone who won't compromise on money during the marriage, will have no problem sc**ing you big time in a divorce.

I said it's historically been a sensitive topic. It's gotten better. I can't say with certainty why, but like I said, my best guess is his desire for some autonomy/control, and inertia and not wanting to change how he's always done things. I also think he didn't want to co-mingle assets because maybe he was embarrassed about little financial acuity he had or how much debt he had (school loans), or maybe he just didn't want to add that complexity. Affair is highly unlikely. Not saying it's improbable, but unlikely.

And we have compromised. We have had yearly sit downs with a full accounting of all our assets. Honestly, we are just a bit busy and disorganized and not on top of things as we should be, and are not really clear about the best way to set things up for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here- many states are not community property states but rather equitable distribution which could require lots of legal fees to sort out and argue who gets what: it’s not automatically 50-50 and he could certainly work hard to argue that he gets to keep more because he earned it. Either way she doesn’t have access to funds which is frightening. . Op is also super vulnerable if he up and leaves: she would have to get court order to pay bills etc if he refused. It’s really unfair that op has no access to finances. He is using money to control and because she is not currently working because she is totally dependent on him.

If he goes part time and refuses to do household stuff then you should make him
Pay for the cleaners out if “his” money! Or out the entirety of your Kay heck in your account and he gets to do the family budget from his part time job.

OP here and I learned that we live in an "equitable distribution" state. What that means, for the most part, is that my spouse's personal account is considered a marital asset (minus what he had in there before marriage, which was nothing). It's considered a marital asset because he deposited money into it during our marriage that wasn't solely his money (like an inheritance would be). This is from a bit of amateur google legal research, so if anyone else has more professional knowledge to share, please do so.

However, PP above is correct that if the two parties can't agree on how to split assets equitably on their own, then it may require a bit of a legal process to sort through, and many things are taken into consideration by the court. Things like age, future employability, contribution of one party to the increased earning power of the other party, contribution by a party in appreciation of property, established standard of living, etc.

Also a couple surprising stats:
- Among U.S. couples who are married, in a civil partnership or live together, 43 percent have only joint bank accounts.
- Many couples (34 percent) have a mix of joint and separate bank accounts, while 23 percent have completely separate accounts.

Please do not compare your relationship with "couples who live together" and dont have accounts together, clearly that is not an apples to apples comparison here.

I agree you need to have a come to jesus talk here. The easiest way I can think about it is to use your household money for less. IE household money is not for new appliances or furniture, you request separate money for that. Vacations, same thing. If he has the separate account for all these expensive things that should apply for you as well. I'd use the $ for groceries, etc, and then when a big expense comes up you tell him how much it will be and he pays it or transfer it.