Feminists make better MILs?

[Anonymous]

Both parents should be allowed, encouraged or even required to take parental leave or go part time until their baby is eligible for full time KG.

[Anonymous]

They can take turns but both should do it to bond with the child and not put it all on their souse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can attest that the inverse is true: Misogynists are horrible MILs.

Mine is an uber-conservative, pro-life Catholic and all of the misogyny that goes along with that.

That's my mil. A hateful, narcissistic misogynist. Her daughters are the same. She is so controlling, she believes she gets to pick her children's spouses. Only 1 out of 5 is married and 2 are in their 50s and have never had a relationship with a mate. We have no relationship with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about supporting women’s agency in making choices for their own lives, whatever they may be. If an MIL is a real feminist, she’ll embrace her DIL the way she is and become her supporter. I can’t think of a better gift than unconditional acceptance from any parent, no matter how they met their new child, by giving birth, by adoption or by law.

this is a relatively new concept in the women’s movement. My mother fought for women to be able to stay in the workplace after marriage and children as she was forced out of her job after becoming pregnant with me in 1964. In the 70’s women were finally able to get credit cards in their name. In the 1960’s women could get the pill IF they had permission of their husband. Unmarried women could not get it. These are the things she and others fought for. Many have trouble when a daughter or DIL chooses to sah because if feels like a betrayal to them for all the hard work it took to be able to be in the workplace. My mother had a really hard time when I quit to SAH - and my children have SN -something DCUM tends to forgive if someone SAH when children are in school. She understood it intellectually- but emotionally it was difficult for her.I think of her as a real feminist even if you do not.

My generation had a hard time with SAH because we were supposed to be the Enjoli generation, (bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never let you forget your a man….’ We were told we could have it all and we could do it all. We had the hatchback babies - my son was born at noon on Monday and we were released at 9am Tuesday and no parental leave (paid or unpaid). I still have my $.59 pin - I think women are now over $.75 to men’s $1 now. That is progress.

My hope for the next wave is toward more equitable and affordable childcare options. I like that this generation has more options for parental leave for everyone.

I’m sorry but no, you can’t have it all. The truth is your relationships with your children will just not be as close if you aren’t around. That’s the hard fact. Are you really going to wish you’d spent more time at work being a corporate monkey or some other such thing? I know I won’t. I won’t ever regret investing time into the relationship with my children.

+1000. “Having it all” is yet another lie of the left.

Literally sitting next to my mom right now, who is one of my best friends. Guess I better tell her we aren’t as close as we think, because she worked outside of the home. And she didn’t even have to, she chose to! Bad mom, bad. (Yes, she’s a liberal).

For the record, I am a liberal SAHM. It was just the right choice for our family. If I could have worked in formal work force, and given my children the level of care and advocacy they need, I would have preferred that. I know many adults have close relationships with mothers who worked in the formal work force. I actually feel guilty for not working outside the home in terms of being a role model.

I don’t judge other women for doing whatever they need to do for themselves and for their families. I hate the cultural mommy wars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a feminist MIL. Both of my DIL are also feminists. I adore them! One SAH. One WOH. Both are feminists. Their decision on whether to work outside the home has nothing to do with it. Admittedly, I would have had a hard time had my kids married the Trump type. But, I would have kept my mouth shut. Thankfully, my kids married smart, educated, strong, driven young women.

What is a Trumpet wife? Someone is is conservative and a sahm? Seriously you ended with the thing my MIL says driven. So if you sah you aren’t driven? I already have my degrees but this is judgy. Like oh she’s not working and showing a good example is literally what my MIL said?

Did you miss the part where I said one of them works? They are both brilliant, driven, educated, and driven. Working or staying at home has nothing to do with it. They made decisions that were best fir their families.

I have no idea what a "Trump type" is given I know a wide range of women who voted for Trump, from the cliched blond SAHM to the career professional. Going by data, the typical Trump voting woman is a lower middle class to middle class working woman.

Back to the OP: no, I don't think being a feminist makes a better MIL. Because it has nothing to do with being a MIL. Unless you live in some cliched fantasy world where everyone lives by Hollywood stereotypes.

PP 2 in the "driven" comment. you wrote that three times. What is driven to you? There's a lot of implication there. I can tell you again my feminist MIL comes to my house, expects to be taken out everyday shopping and then makes nasty remarks that my house is a mess with kids. What do I do with my time etc. Mind you its not a mess, it's some kid toys in the family room cramping her drinking habit. No mind that her son doesn't help. Thankfully I do have help in addition with a cleaning crew. The double standard is quite funny. She bosses her husband around and they have a nasty bad relationship. She has had to use her retirement to pay for his bad financial messes. But hey, at least she's in charge right? Personally, I think a better indicator, is your personal relationships. She has also said that driven word. That she showed her kids "a good example because I worked". In your opinion can a sahp be driven? At least you do recognize one of your DIL's made a personal decision. But the driven and working stuff tells me you unconsciously think it's better overall, except in some occasions.

I agree there is no Hollywood. I'm a high net UMC because I help my husband earning power while staying a home. We are 5%, maybe even 1%, depending on a DCUM day definition. I don't think feminist MILs make better MILs. People are people, and there is a lot of dysfunction around, so I don't think some mental theory to things is the key. How you deal with interpersonal relationship and whether or not you have self awareness and are kind, etc. Frankly, it would be like saying wow I've noticed conservatives are better at xyz. The premise is already loaded and nasty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about supporting women’s agency in making choices for their own lives, whatever they may be. If an MIL is a real feminist, she’ll embrace her DIL the way she is and become her supporter. I can’t think of a better gift than unconditional acceptance from any parent, no matter how they met their new child, by giving birth, by adoption or by law.

this is a relatively new concept in the women’s movement. My mother fought for women to be able to stay in the workplace after marriage and children as she was forced out of her job after becoming pregnant with me in 1964. In the 70’s women were finally able to get credit cards in their name. In the 1960’s women could get the pill IF they had permission of their husband. Unmarried women could not get it. These are the things she and others fought for. Many have trouble when a daughter or DIL chooses to sah because if feels like a betrayal to them for all the hard work it took to be able to be in the workplace. My mother had a really hard time when I quit to SAH - and my children have SN -something DCUM tends to forgive if someone SAH when children are in school. She understood it intellectually- but emotionally it was difficult for her.I think of her as a real feminist even if you do not.

My generation had a hard time with SAH because we were supposed to be the Enjoli generation, (bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never let you forget your a man….’ We were told we could have it all and we could do it all. We had the hatchback babies - my son was born at noon on Monday and we were released at 9am Tuesday and no parental leave (paid or unpaid). I still have my $.59 pin - I think women are now over $.75 to men’s $1 now. That is progress.

My hope for the next wave is toward more equitable and affordable childcare options. I like that this generation has more options for parental leave for everyone.

I’m sorry but no, you can’t have it all. The truth is your relationships with your children will just not be as close if you aren’t around. That’s the hard fact. Are you really going to wish you’d spent more time at work being a corporate monkey or some other such thing? I know I won’t. I won’t ever regret investing time into the relationship with my children.

+1000. “Having it all” is yet another lie of the left.

No, it the lie of the right, because many of them do and believe that means everyone can, and if they don't, it's their own fault. The left knows most of us have far, far less than "it all" and working to help make life easier with parental leave, healthcare, child tax credits, universal preK, etc.

But I thought the most educated and rich among us were mostly liberals these days? A lot of conservatives are actually working class families like you are describing the left to be. It’s flip flopped.

This was the central premise of "What's the Matter with Kansas?" a buzzy political book 15 years ago or so. The Republican party is a marriage of two wings: economic conservatives and social conservatives. Economic conservatives want deregulation and lower taxes; social conservatives care about things like abortion, gay marriage, and teaching that America is (or was) great. It paid off wonderfully for economic conservatives and the big business interests that they represent, while social conservatives mostly got hosed. Of course, that may change now that they have captured the Supreme Court.

But the quick upshot is that most of the red states in middle America care less about getting screwed than they do about feeling bad about any of their actions. I think the last Republican legislative idea other than tax cuts actually aimed (without any judgment on whether it would be successful) at helping middle class families might have been Bush's plan to privatize social security, which died a pretty quick death. For all the Republican votes to repeal Obamacare, they had no plan at all for what to do without it.

Of course, it's a new age for the Republican party. Mitt Romney was a Presidential nominee and now he's a pariah. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz beg forgiveness whenever there is any semblance that they have offended the Trump or his supporters. Maybe once they ban abortion they'll get around to addressing the economic concerns of the working class that keeps electing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about supporting women’s agency in making choices for their own lives, whatever they may be. If an MIL is a real feminist, she’ll embrace her DIL the way she is and become her supporter. I can’t think of a better gift than unconditional acceptance from any parent, no matter how they met their new child, by giving birth, by adoption or by law.

this is a relatively new concept in the women’s movement. My mother fought for women to be able to stay in the workplace after marriage and children as she was forced out of her job after becoming pregnant with me in 1964. In the 70’s women were finally able to get credit cards in their name. In the 1960’s women could get the pill IF they had permission of their husband. Unmarried women could not get it. These are the things she and others fought for. Many have trouble when a daughter or DIL chooses to sah because if feels like a betrayal to them for all the hard work it took to be able to be in the workplace. My mother had a really hard time when I quit to SAH - and my children have SN -something DCUM tends to forgive if someone SAH when children are in school. She understood it intellectually- but emotionally it was difficult for her.I think of her as a real feminist even if you do not.

My generation had a hard time with SAH because we were supposed to be the Enjoli generation, (bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never let you forget your a man….’ We were told we could have it all and we could do it all. We had the hatchback babies - my son was born at noon on Monday and we were released at 9am Tuesday and no parental leave (paid or unpaid). I still have my $.59 pin - I think women are now over $.75 to men’s $1 now. That is progress.

My hope for the next wave is toward more equitable and affordable childcare options. I like that this generation has more options for parental leave for everyone.

I’m sorry but no, you can’t have it all. The truth is your relationships with your children will just not be as close if you aren’t around. That’s the hard fact. Are you really going to wish you’d spent more time at work being a corporate monkey or some other such thing? I know I won’t. I won’t ever regret investing time into the relationship with my children.

You did not seem to read the pp’s post. She wasn’t saying she could have it all, she said her generation was told that. She also said she was a SAHP and her mother had a hard time with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about supporting women’s agency in making choices for their own lives, whatever they may be. If an MIL is a real feminist, she’ll embrace her DIL the way she is and become her supporter. I can’t think of a better gift than unconditional acceptance from any parent, no matter how they met their new child, by giving birth, by adoption or by law.

this is a relatively new concept in the women’s movement. My mother fought for women to be able to stay in the workplace after marriage and children as she was forced out of her job after becoming pregnant with me in 1964. In the 70’s women were finally able to get credit cards in their name. In the 1960’s women could get the pill IF they had permission of their husband. Unmarried women could not get it. These are the things she and others fought for. Many have trouble when a daughter or DIL chooses to sah because if feels like a betrayal to them for all the hard work it took to be able to be in the workplace. My mother had a really hard time when I quit to SAH - and my children have SN -something DCUM tends to forgive if someone SAH when children are in school. She understood it intellectually- but emotionally it was difficult for her.I think of her as a real feminist even if you do not.

My generation had a hard time with SAH because we were supposed to be the Enjoli generation, (bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never let you forget your a man….’ We were told we could have it all and we could do it all. We had the hatchback babies - my son was born at noon on Monday and we were released at 9am Tuesday and no parental leave (paid or unpaid). I still have my $.59 pin - I think women are now over $.75 to men’s $1 now. That is progress.

My hope for the next wave is toward more equitable and affordable childcare options. I like that this generation has more options for parental leave for everyone.

I’m sorry but no, you can’t have it all. The truth is your relationships with your children will just not be as close if you aren’t around. That’s the hard fact. Are you really going to wish you’d spent more time at work being a corporate monkey or some other such thing? I know I won’t. I won’t ever regret investing time into the relationship with my children.

+1000. “Having it all” is yet another lie of the left.

No, it the lie of the right, because many of them do and believe that means everyone can, and if they don't, it's their own fault. The left knows most of us have far, far less than "it all" and working to help make life easier with parental leave, healthcare, child tax credits, universal preK, etc.

But I thought the most educated and rich among us were mostly liberals these days? A lot of conservatives are actually working class families like you are describing the left to be. It’s flip flopped.

This was the central premise of "What's the Matter with Kansas?" a buzzy political book 15 years ago or so. The Republican party is a marriage of two wings: economic conservatives and social conservatives. Economic conservatives want deregulation and lower taxes; social conservatives care about things like abortion, gay marriage, and teaching that America is (or was) great. It paid off wonderfully for economic conservatives and the big business interests that they represent, while social conservatives mostly got hosed. Of course, that may change now that they have captured the Supreme Court.

But the quick upshot is that most of the red states in middle America care less about getting screwed than they do about feeling bad about any of their actions. I think the last Republican legislative idea other than tax cuts actually aimed (without any judgment on whether it would be successful) at helping middle class families might have been Bush's plan to privatize social security, which died a pretty quick death. For all the Republican votes to repeal Obamacare, they had no plan at all for what to do without it.

Of course, it's a new age for the Republican party. Mitt Romney was a Presidential nominee and now he's a pariah. Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz beg forgiveness whenever there is any semblance that they have offended the Trump or his supporters. Maybe once they ban abortion they'll get around to addressing the economic concerns of the working class that keeps electing them.

It's telling that the working and middle classes are increasingly leaning Republican. I wonder what they'd think about your moralizing DC bubble screed. Maybe it's because they know the Democrats hate them, despise them, and couldn't care less about white working class people. They know the Democrats sold them down the river with open borders and liberal trade with China. A lot of wealth was generated from it - which went to rich Democrats.

I do agree that both political parties treated working Americans badly, overpromising and underdelivering and with an increasing inequity going primarily to affluent Democrats. For all their economic flaws, at least the Republicans don't also sneer at just being a white rural or suburban working / middle class and deliver hate-tinged speeches about being on the wrong side of history (aka Biden last week in Atlanta).

The Republicans were the party of unpleasant moralizers aka the evangelicals, 20 years ago. Today the ugly and divisive moralizers are the Democrats and their progressive ideologies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure if my MIL would describe herself as a feminist; however, she was the primary breadwinner working outside of the home while my FIL retired early and cared for the kids. She is a great MIL and DH does more than his share around the house and caring for our children.

Same. Mine rarely cooks- lived to work (and still does- contracted back as a retiree) and was very A type and created an independent streak and strong work ethic in her kids. My DH cooks and cleans like his dad and also is the main caregiver now that my work has so much travel. I have a wonderful, capable DH (who also works full time) because of her and FIL.

The only down side- she would be horrified if I decided to quit, do nothing and take care of the kids at home- she never did it so would not understand/support that- but I think I'd feel the same as a MIL.

Feminism is all about the freedom to choose what you want- but we have a friend who just did this (quit job to take care of 2 toddlers) and now they are having to move in with her inlaws to pick up the dime because they can no longer afford their home/cars/etc because she decided to quit. Didn't sound too cool to us but it's not our marriage. I made a joke about doing the same and moving in with her to take care of us and we had a belly laugh.

This is similar to my family dynamic. Both my parents worked, mom has a PhD and had a job as important and lucrative as my dads in the 1970s. I told her I was considering staying home with my DC1 when he was an infant with bad colic and she was horrified. She actually came and helped us enormously so I can continue my career. My brother cooks and cleans and woke up during the night to feed his son. My SIL has an important career too and she loves my mom and we're all very close. My MIL stayed at home and my SIL and my husband are a disaster about housework. My H got much much better over the years and he can actually cook a little, still not great at cleaning but we have weekly cleaning service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure if my MIL would describe herself as a feminist; however, she was the primary breadwinner working outside of the home while my FIL retired early and cared for the kids. She is a great MIL and DH does more than his share around the house and caring for our children.

Same. Mine rarely cooks- lived to work (and still does- contracted back as a retiree) and was very A type and created an independent streak and strong work ethic in her kids. My DH cooks and cleans like his dad and also is the main caregiver now that my work has so much travel. I have a wonderful, capable DH (who also works full time) because of her and FIL.

The only down side- she would be horrified if I decided to quit, do nothing and take care of the kids at home- she never did it so would not understand/support that- but I think I'd feel the same as a MIL.

Feminism is all about the freedom to choose what you want- but we have a friend who just did this (quit job to take care of 2 toddlers) and now they are having to move in with her inlaws to pick up the dime because they can no longer afford their home/cars/etc because she decided to quit. Didn't sound too cool to us but it's not our marriage. I made a joke about doing the same and moving in with her to take care of us and we had a belly laugh.

This is similar to my family dynamic. Both my parents worked, mom has a PhD and had a job as important and lucrative as my dads in the 1970s. I told her I was considering staying home with my DC1 when he was an infant with bad colic and she was horrified. She actually came and helped us enormously so I can continue my career. My brother cooks and cleans and woke up during the night to feed his son. My SIL has an important career too and she loves my mom and we're all very close. My MIL stayed at home and my SIL and my husband are a disaster about housework. My H got much much better over the years and he can actually cook a little, still not great at cleaning but we have weekly cleaning service.

I would really recoil if my mom or MIL were horrified by a choice to work or SAH. They had their chance to build
their lives, now it’s mine. Judgmental women. A mom should come to help because the new mom needs help, not because she’s grasping her pearls over a choice you were making about your own child. That’s manipulative behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure if my MIL would describe herself as a feminist; however, she was the primary breadwinner working outside of the home while my FIL retired early and cared for the kids. She is a great MIL and DH does more than his share around the house and caring for our children.

Same. Mine rarely cooks- lived to work (and still does- contracted back as a retiree) and was very A type and created an independent streak and strong work ethic in her kids. My DH cooks and cleans like his dad and also is the main caregiver now that my work has so much travel. I have a wonderful, capable DH (who also works full time) because of her and FIL.

The only down side- she would be horrified if I decided to quit, do nothing and take care of the kids at home- she never did it so would not understand/support that- but I think I'd feel the same as a MIL.

Feminism is all about the freedom to choose what you want- but we have a friend who just did this (quit job to take care of 2 toddlers) and now they are having to move in with her inlaws to pick up the dime because they can no longer afford their home/cars/etc because she decided to quit. Didn't sound too cool to us but it's not our marriage. I made a joke about doing the same and moving in with her to take care of us and we had a belly laugh.

This is similar to my family dynamic. Both my parents worked, mom has a PhD and had a job as important and lucrative as my dads in the 1970s. I told her I was considering staying home with my DC1 when he was an infant with bad colic and she was horrified. She actually came and helped us enormously so I can continue my career. My brother cooks and cleans and woke up during the night to feed his son. My SIL has an important career too and she loves my mom and we're all very close. My MIL stayed at home and my SIL and my husband are a disaster about housework. My H got much much better over the years and he can actually cook a little, still not great at cleaning but we have weekly cleaning service.

It’s weird how you keep trumpeting someone’s career as important. As in those women are justified in working because they had IMPORTANT careers. What careers are important? You, mom, and SIL sound insufferable.

Your implied judgments that adult children with SAHM seem to be less competent is interesting. It’s seems you learned a lot about looking down at other people who make different choices. Just like mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure if my MIL would describe herself as a feminist; however, she was the primary breadwinner working outside of the home while my FIL retired early and cared for the kids. She is a great MIL and DH does more than his share around the house and caring for our children.

Same. Mine rarely cooks- lived to work (and still does- contracted back as a retiree) and was very A type and created an independent streak and strong work ethic in her kids. My DH cooks and cleans like his dad and also is the main caregiver now that my work has so much travel. I have a wonderful, capable DH (who also works full time) because of her and FIL.

The only down side- she would be horrified if I decided to quit, do nothing and take care of the kids at home- she never did it so would not understand/support that- but I think I'd feel the same as a MIL.

Feminism is all about the freedom to choose what you want- but we have a friend who just did this (quit job to take care of 2 toddlers) and now they are having to move in with her inlaws to pick up the dime because they can no longer afford their home/cars/etc because she decided to quit. Didn't sound too cool to us but it's not our marriage. I made a joke about doing the same and moving in with her to take care of us and we had a belly laugh.

This is similar to my family dynamic. Both my parents worked, mom has a PhD and had a job as important and lucrative as my dads in the 1970s. I told her I was considering staying home with my DC1 when he was an infant with bad colic and she was horrified. She actually came and helped us enormously so I can continue my career. My brother cooks and cleans and woke up during the night to feed his son. My SIL has an important career too and she loves my mom and we're all very close. My MIL stayed at home and my SIL and my husband are a disaster about housework. My H got much much better over the years and he can actually cook a little, still not great at cleaning but we have weekly cleaning service.

I would really recoil if my mom or MIL were horrified by a choice to work or SAH. They had their chance to build
their lives, now it’s mine. Judgmental women. A mom should come to help because the new mom needs help, not because she’s grasping her pearls over a choice you were making about your own child. That’s manipulative behavior.

A loving mom would come to help you if you need it and she can, regardless of how you live your life. It’s called unconditional love.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully yes because they don't unreasonably worship their sons and think sons can do no wrong, and
They respect the women who marry their sons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Feminists make better MILs or worse?

She can but would she? That depends on what sort of person and mother she is, not because she is feminist or not. There are so many conservative and traditional mothers and MILs who support their daughters and DILs, even though they don’t approve of their life choices.

[Anonymous]

Eh in theory yes. But lots of family dynamics have to come together.
I know a feminist very alpha female who climbed to the top of the corporate ladder. She raised phenomenal daughters. She also hav a beta son who got lost in that household.