Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Really sucks it falls on the back of the traumatized victim who actually put kids first to have to be the one “doing it to their kids”. The cheaters are the ones that did this to their kids. And the hood responsible person is left with two bad choices.

OP here and this exactly how I feel and have said this outloud multiple times already.

I sympathize because I’m left with the same two choices.

I also felt this way - only two bad choices. I thought a lot about which was the least bad choice. I also thought what would I advise my daughter if she came to me with my story. Would I tell her to stay? My situation was worse than yours OP in that it quickly became clear to me (after a period of keeping my eyes wide open and spending time sleuthing) that my now ex was doing far more than just the one time affair with a coworker on an overseas work trip that he confessed to. It took about a year for me to really understand the wide range of completely out of bounds behavior, and I would never in a million years have wanted to set the example that staying in a relationship with that kind of person is healthy or something either of my kids should feel obligated to do. It took another year and a half for me to finally be in a position to ask him to leave while being able to maintain full physical custody , which was important to me because are kids were very young, and he was not a good parent.

The hard part is that in the first few months or years, you have no idea which direction he will go - repentant learned a lesson better husband or hiding manipulating double faced husband? That’s why your priority should be creating legal and economic protections for yourself now, IMO.

NP. How did you find all that out and what protections? OP luckily has supportive family. It doesn’t sound like that would change if she were to decide to divorce. Hers does sound salvageable so far, hope it stays that way for her to at least have the choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Really sucks it falls on the back of the traumatized victim who actually put kids first to have to be the one “doing it to their kids”. The cheaters are the ones that did this to their kids. And the hood responsible person is left with two bad choices.

OP here and this exactly how I feel and have said this outloud multiple times already.

OP, I’m the one who brought up the hell of being raised with unhappily married parents. I’ve worked through those issues and I brought it up not because your marriage was previously unhappy, but because of the weight that falls on you now. I think PPs insisting you stay together “for the kids” are (1) being grossly unfair to you and (2) minimizing the amount of work you would need to do to be happily married at this point.

Big hugs. I know this is hard as hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Plus don’t let them live in poorer financial conditions All these women telling you to divorce and get rid of him, they aren’t telling you what really happens. It’s hard financially. And it never gets easier. And everyone is supportive up front, but then after the novelty wears off, no one is there to help you and commiserate with you. No one to help with kids, no one to travel with, no one to talk to. So just make sure you take all of this into account.

[Anonymous]

Op still thinking of you. So happy to come back and read that your therapist is wonderful. And the story of your husband and the sketch, my god you are in such an impossible position. The “right now” advice is great advice for lots of things, thank you for sharing. Still sending lots of good energy your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Really sucks it falls on the back of the traumatized victim who actually put kids first to have to be the one “doing it to their kids”. The cheaters are the ones that did this to their kids. And the hood responsible person is left with two bad choices.

OP here and this exactly how I feel and have said this outloud multiple times already.

I sympathize because I’m left with the same two choices.

I also felt this way - only two bad choices. I thought a lot about which was the least bad choice. I also thought what would I advise my daughter if she came to me with my story. Would I tell her to stay? My situation was worse than yours OP in that it quickly became clear to me (after a period of keeping my eyes wide open and spending time sleuthing) that my now ex was doing far more than just the one time affair with a coworker on an overseas work trip that he confessed to. It took about a year for me to really understand the wide range of completely out of bounds behavior, and I would never in a million years have wanted to set the example that staying in a relationship with that kind of person is healthy or something either of my kids should feel obligated to do. It took another year and a half for me to finally be in a position to ask him to leave while being able to maintain full physical custody , which was important to me because are kids were very young, and he was not a good parent.

The hard part is that in the first few months or years, you have no idea which direction he will go - repentant learned a lesson better husband or hiding manipulating double faced husband? That’s why your priority should be creating legal and economic protections for yourself now, IMO.

IME this is very true. There's no way to know if he is on the path to permanent change or if he's just doing damage control in the early days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Plus don’t let them live in poorer financial conditions All these women telling you to divorce and get rid of him, they aren’t telling you what really happens. It’s hard financially. And it never gets easier. And everyone is supportive up front, but then after the novelty wears off, no one is there to help you and commiserate with you. No one to help with kids, no one to travel with, no one to talk to. So just make sure you take all of this into account.

I'm divorced. This post is simply false.

In my case, I'm better off financially-because I'm not the one who buys crap online and runs up credit cards! I'm also thrilled to no longer be the finances police.

I do have people to help, it's called a village. In my case, it's family and my church family.

I travel WITH my kids, we have the best times!

Of course I have people to talk to. How much talking do you think exdh and I were doing for the last years before divorce? I was MORE alone, then!

Just here to correct the falsehoods in the PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Plus don’t let them live in poorer financial conditions All these women telling you to divorce and get rid of him, they aren’t telling you what really happens. It’s hard financially. And it never gets easier. And everyone is supportive up front, but then after the novelty wears off, no one is there to help you and commiserate with you. No one to help with kids, no one to travel with, no one to talk to. So just make sure you take all of this into account.

I'm divorced. This post is simply false.

In my case, I'm better off financially-because I'm not the one who buys crap online and runs up credit cards! I'm also thrilled to no longer be the finances police.

I do have people to help, it's called a village. In my case, it's family and my church family.

I travel WITH my kids, we have the best times!

Of course I have people to talk to. How much talking do you think exdh and I were doing for the last years before divorce? I was MORE alone, then!

Just here to correct the falsehoods in the PP.

It might be a falsehood for you, but what PP said is true for many people (especially women) who divorce. Most women aren’t divorcing because their husbands are shopaholics. I have two family members whose lifestyles took a nosedive after divorce. One is still happy to be without the ex, the other regrets the divorce. This is not a one-size-fits-all.

[Anonymous]

I'm divorced. This post is simply false.

In my case, I'm better off financially-because I'm not the one who buys crap online and runs up credit cards! I'm also thrilled to no longer be the finances police.

I do have people to help, it's called a village. In my case, it's family and my church family.

I travel WITH my kids, we have the best times!

Of course I have people to talk to. How much talking do you think exdh and I were doing for the last years before divorce? I was MORE alone, then!

Just here to correct the falsehoods in the PP.

NP. This is just YOUR truth, just like the PP you responded to has her truth. You point out what you call "falsehoods" in PP's post, but fail to recognize that, similarly, your experience is only your own. That does not make PP's experience any less true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Plus don’t let them live in poorer financial conditions All these women telling you to divorce and get rid of him, they aren’t telling you what really happens. It’s hard financially. And it never gets easier. And everyone is supportive up front, but then after the novelty wears off, no one is there to help you and commiserate with you. No one to help with kids, no one to travel with, no one to talk to. So just make sure you take all of this into account.

Depends on the man. Will this happen again?
You know what's more financially devastating than divorce in your 40s?
Divorce in your late 50s, with retirement coming up. If OP feels she can't trust her husband, better to take the hit now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t sound like they were unhappy until this came to light. I agree if parents’ unhappiness trickles down to the kids, it’s better to separate. But in this case, so far, it appears things could be worked out. If from the kid’s perspective things are happy, it would be far more traumatic to be blindsided with a divorce.

This. Don’t do it to your kids.

Plus don’t let them live in poorer financial conditions All these women telling you to divorce and get rid of him, they aren’t telling you what really happens. It’s hard financially. And it never gets easier. And everyone is supportive up front, but then after the novelty wears off, no one is there to help you and commiserate with you. No one to help with kids, no one to travel with, no one to talk to. So just make sure you take all of this into account.

Depends on the man. Will this happen again?
You know what's more financially devastating than divorce in your 40s?
Divorce in your late 50s, with retirement coming up. If OP feels she can't trust her husband, better to take the hit now

Why? I think the opposite.

I’m a 52 year old woman with $1.5 million in my own TSP/retirement. I have my own great health insurance, etc. and house is essentially paid off. Almost empty nest. It’s easier to do now than it would have been 8 years ago when kids were small.

[Anonymous]

Op here. I'm in my early 30s which I actually feel like complicates things more. On one hand, I think we have so many reasons and the time to put in the work and build something beautiful out of this mess for the next 40+ years. On the other, I know that if something like this ever happens again in the future, 40/50/60 year old me will have given anything to leave at 30-something when the kids were so young and could likely grow up not even remembering anything different.

Our weekend was actually really nice- we were busy celebrating our little one's bday and I hardly thought about our issues until I got in bed both nights. We spent the day at a waterpark yesterday and I found myself unintentionally noticing all the men there for the first time maybe ever? I've had such tunnel vision for DH, or maybe just married blinders on, that I literally haven't even noticed other attractive men existing in I couldn't even tell you how long.

Dh just left for his business trip and I'm full of rage all of a sudden. I couldn't even look at him when he left. I feel bad right now I WANT to do something fun with my kids this evening and enjoy my special time with them, but in reality I've let them stay on their tablets for the last 2+ hours, ugh.

My best friend is coming over tonight after the kids go to bed and we're going to order Thai food and she'll indulge all my racing thought/feelings.

[Anonymous]

Glad you have your best friend coming over OP.

I was 34 on DDay and had two preschoolers. I stayed because I wanted to. It was my least bad choice. I did my due diligence and made sure there were objective reasons to be optimistic about his ability to grow up and our chances of happiness, but ultimately I stayed because I wanted to. I loved him and our life together. I loved being a family unit. And so ultimately, after making sure the affair was over and he was remorseful, I chose what *I* wanted.

You're not the one who cheated. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. If you're in an unhealthy situation with a narcissist or compulsive liar or serial cheater, then by all means get out of dodge. But if you've got someone you still love who seems to have the capacity for growth and change, there is no shame in staying. The shame is not yours . . . it's all on the ones who decided to cheat. You get to decide what works best for you, and you get all the time you need to do that. And you can always change your mind too. There's also no shame in leaving; this isn't what you signed up for, and if you think your least bad option is divorce, then that's totally OK too. He's the one who played Russian Roulette and pulled the trigger. If you can't stop the bleeding, then that's not on you.

The lesson you learn from this experience is that there are no guarantees . . . you will encounter hardships in life, one way or another. There IS someone you can trust 100%, and that's you and your ability to get through hard things. And that can give you comfort looking into the future. You don't have to have all the answers now; you'll have them when you need to have them.

FWIW my DDay was 8 years ago and I have never regretted my decision to stay. The early years of our relationship and marriage we just coasted on compatibility and being smart people with mostly good upbringings. But the affair made us realize that we'd never really learned to communicate in ways that worked for the other person, we'd never really focused on recognizing when we were overwhelmed and stressed and learning how to self-soothe, etc. There were all these little ways we could get better at adulting and all of that took a relationship that was already pretty good and made things even better.

One thing I did was ask my trusted people if I was crazy to stay. If I had blinders on and was staying with some obvious a-hole then I wanted someone to tell me. But my people said, no no, you're not crazy. And so I said, OK, that's what I thought too, but I had to be sure I wasn't just married to some Lifetime movie villain and deluding myself. All you can do is take it one day at a time, using the information you have at hand.

I've commented on your thread a few times . . . my husband's affair was also with someone long distance and the physical part was only one business trip. I think it makes sense that the trip is triggering rage, especially if you took some time out from thinking about affair stuff for a few days. I still remember the exact details surrounding the trip he took, though I didn't find out about the affair for a few more months. We were on the phone while he was on the train scheduling a surgery for our child. He KNEW he was going to meet up with and sleep with another woman while doing this. Then OF COURSE our kids got the stomach bug and were up night throwing up, while he was with another woman and I was texting him "OMG HELP." Thinking about it still makes me want to staple things to his head.

Part of repair was understanding that scheduling barely necessary client meetings was not as important as my comfort and sanity. So he avoided that city for two years, and then the first time he went back, we went as a family and made good memories there. There were a lot of trips he would spend one or two nights away for, and he changed them to leaving on a 6 a.m. flight and getting home at 10 p.m. When he did take overnight business trips, he was very present and in touch . . . no ignoring my texts like that horrible night. He still Facetimes me a lot on business trips, and it's just this unspoken way that he reassures me. He can tell if I am feeling triggered (or I tell him). Obviously I know that where there's a will there's a way, but he has always been a horrible liar and he managed the affair by omitting things and avoiding conversations. So I find this fairly reassuring. He couldn't keep a straight face while hiding some lady in the hotel bathroom.

I believe in redemption and forgiveness, but a big part of that is repair. He broke the trust I had surrounding his travels and he needed to find a way to rebuild it. This is the part that the sad OW who write on forums will try to cast as "being on a tight leash," but news flash, somebody else's marriage and its negotiated terms are none of your business. He offered these terms knowing that I had every right to walk, and every right not to trust him. And he preferred having less relaxing work travel and being thoughtful about what would trigger PTSD over giving up on our relationship. And these efforts were enough to keep the panicky feelings at bay and to build up good will slowly over time.

Travel may be a trigger for you too, and that makes total sense. Don't be afraid to tell him what you need to make it less awful for you. Expect him to understand why this activates the primitive part of your brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm divorced. This post is simply false.

In my case, I'm better off financially-because I'm not the one who buys crap online and runs up credit cards! I'm also thrilled to no longer be the finances police.

I do have people to help, it's called a village. In my case, it's family and my church family.

I travel WITH my kids, we have the best times!

Of course I have people to talk to. How much talking do you think exdh and I were doing for the last years before divorce? I was MORE alone, then!

Just here to correct the falsehoods in the PP.

NP. This is just YOUR truth, just like the PP you responded to has her truth. You point out what you call "falsehoods" in PP's post, but fail to recognize that, similarly, your experience is only your own. That does not make PP's experience any less true.

I'm the PP. I literally said 'in MY case'. The pp I quoted-generalized for ALL women ('no one will help you, no one to talk to')

[Anonymous]

OP, how are you doing this week while DH's away on his work trip? Thinking of you and hoping you're making it through alright!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, how are you doing this week while DH's away on his work trip? Thinking of you and hoping you're making it through alright!

Thanks for the kind thoughts. Having my friend over was what I needed in that moment. She asked me some challenging questions and didn't really sugar coat her thoughts at all, but was still supportive. The kids have been a lot. Our fresh 2yo is really taking the "terrible twos" role seriously. I usually have endless patience and now I just don't. I feel like my emotions are fried. My nerves are fried. Everything is just fried. Dh has been very proactive about checking in and keeping me updated with his trip even though I've largely been not responding. We each had separate meetings with our marriage counselor this week and we are meeting with her in person on Friday (we've been doing virtual therapy so far). It felt good to shed some light on some things I think are important and I'm interested to see how each of our conversations will be incorporated into our joint session Friday. She and I really honed in on the fact that our families of origin have VASTLY different conflict resolution styles. My family has been through a LOT of horrible situations and even when it's hard and uncomfortable, we talk through everything- sometimes to the extent of beating dead horses. But there's no surprises. Everyone in my family of origin knows how one another reacts to difficult situations, we know each other's coping styles, we know when to lean in to someone and when to back off. DH's family are professional rug sweepers. His dad's love language (and DH's and BIL's) is acts of service. When my in laws have an issue, FIL just fixes things, improves things, checks boxes off the honey do list. MIL has a few drinks, makes jokes, or sometimes creates things as gifts then they are "fine". But nothing is ever discussed or worked through. It's just swept under the rug. After DH left I noticed several things around the house were done- there was a new toilet seat in my bathroom (wtf?), he installed the camera system, he finished that sketch, and he patched a hole we have had in our basement drywall for years. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I've never really noticed the extent of his conflict avoidance or lack of coping skills. I've always thought he was "lucky" to have largely had a stress and trauma free life, but now I'm seeing that has set him up for disaster as an adult. Throughout therapy he has expressed that he has felt X or Y within our relationship and I had absolutely zero idea. It's so frustrating that he didn't even attempt to communicate these things to me.

He asked me if we could talk on the phone last night, but I said I wasn't up for it. He then asked if he could send me an email about what he wanted to say and I agreed, but said I couldn't handle any more emotions and would read it tomorrow (today). I was honestly debating sharing it here to get feedback, but I think that it expressed a lot of what I have been wanting to hear from him and shows he's making progress and really starting to understand what happened.