Homeless Man Killed by Fellow Passenger on NYC Subway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

How can you really retreat being on a train? What if this were on an airplane? Should everyone just be expected to put up with abuse and disturbing behavior unless there’s an air Marshall on board?

Why are we letting crazies overtake our cities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

Please share how to do that when train is moving.

[Anonymous]

I think you retreat within the car. A metro train lets people get off at regular, short intervals so the analogy with a plane doesn’t work. I’ve posted a few times on this thread. I don’t think it was unreasonable for the marine to try to subdue Neely based on the facts currently known. I’m curious to find out if most of the 911 calls were made before or after Penny’s intervention, and what other passengers that witnessed everything have to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you retreat within the car. A metro train lets people get off at regular, short intervals so the analogy with a plane doesn’t work. I’ve posted a few times on this thread. I don’t think it was unreasonable for the marine to try to subdue Neely based on the facts currently known. I’m curious to find out if most of the 911 calls were made before or after Penny’s intervention, and what other passengers that witnessed everything have to say.

From what I understand from the timestamps, there were many 911 calls before Penny intervened.

I wonder how often people on the subway in NY call 911 for run-of-the-mill crazy homeless people. Is that common?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defense fund nearing 400K - yay! This prosecution is ridiculous/pure political theater and will go nowhere. But in the meantime, the poor kid will go through hell. Glad he at least will not have to pay for his defense.

Jury will convict when they are shown photos of Neely dead on the subway floor in pool of his own vomited blood, piss, and feces. Prosecution will tell jury that these results are disproportionate use of force relative to Neely’s lunatic ranting, lack of weapon, and lack of physical assault. Prosecution will play video of the crowd pleading with Neely to let go, thereby eliminating his excuse that he didn’t realize Neely was dying.

Penny is f#cked, but his lawyers will get rich. Yay?

No they won’t. Penny's life will change and it is sad he has to go through this, but no one that listens to the firsthand accounts of people being terrorized by Neely on the train will vote to convict Penny.

+1. I live in NYC, am a (non-white, since that apparently matters) lawyer, and have been terrorized by mentally ill people on the subway more times than I can count. I can tell you on the publicly available facts there is no way I would vote to convict here, and I hope Penny is acquitted. I really don’t think that a jury comprised of NYC residents would convict. Everyone here deals with this.

May I ask you a question? Given your perspective, what is your take on articles like this one (assuming the paywall doesn't prevent you from reading it)? I genuinely try to understand different perspectives, but I struggle to make sense of pieces like this.

https://www.thecut.com/2023/05/jordan-neely-paid-the-price-for-white-discomfort.html

That article isn't another perspective, it's race baiting trash. The comments section is absolutely disturbing, with most people being supportive of the authors racist ramblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defense fund nearing 400K - yay! This prosecution is ridiculous/pure political theater and will go nowhere. But in the meantime, the poor kid will go through hell. Glad he at least will not have to pay for his defense.

Jury will convict when they are shown photos of Neely dead on the subway floor in pool of his own vomited blood, piss, and feces. Prosecution will tell jury that these results are disproportionate use of force relative to Neely’s lunatic ranting, lack of weapon, and lack of physical assault. Prosecution will play video of the crowd pleading with Neely to let go, thereby eliminating his excuse that he didn’t realize Neely was dying.

Penny is f#cked, but his lawyers will get rich. Yay?

No they won’t. Penny's life will change and it is sad he has to go through this, but no one that listens to the firsthand accounts of people being terrorized by Neely on the train will vote to convict Penny.

+1. I live in NYC, am a (non-white, since that apparently matters) lawyer, and have been terrorized by mentally ill people on the subway more times than I can count. I can tell you on the publicly available facts there is no way I would vote to convict here, and I hope Penny is acquitted. I really don’t think that a jury comprised of NYC residents would convict. Everyone here deals with this.

May I ask you a question? Given your perspective, what is your take on articles like this one (assuming the paywall doesn't prevent you from reading it)? I genuinely try to understand different perspectives, but I struggle to make sense of pieces like this.

https://www.thecut.com/2023/05/jordan-neely-paid-the-price-for-white-discomfort.html

That article isn't another perspective, it's race baiting trash. The comments section is absolutely disturbing, with most people being supportive of the authors racist ramblings.

I just read that article and now I want to stab my eyes out. Can we at least acknowledge that not every crazy black man on the subway is the resurrected Jesus Christ himself? That's seven minutes of time I'm not getting back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defense fund nearing 400K - yay! This prosecution is ridiculous/pure political theater and will go nowhere. But in the meantime, the poor kid will go through hell. Glad he at least will not have to pay for his defense.

Jury will convict when they are shown photos of Neely dead on the subway floor in pool of his own vomited blood, piss, and feces. Prosecution will tell jury that these results are disproportionate use of force relative to Neely’s lunatic ranting, lack of weapon, and lack of physical assault. Prosecution will play video of the crowd pleading with Neely to let go, thereby eliminating his excuse that he didn’t realize Neely was dying.

Penny is f#cked, but his lawyers will get rich. Yay?

No they won’t. Penny's life will change and it is sad he has to go through this, but no one that listens to the firsthand accounts of people being terrorized by Neely on the train will vote to convict Penny.

+1. I live in NYC, am a (non-white, since that apparently matters) lawyer, and have been terrorized by mentally ill people on the subway more times than I can count. I can tell you on the publicly available facts there is no way I would vote to convict here, and I hope Penny is acquitted. I really don’t think that a jury comprised of NYC residents would convict. Everyone here deals with this.

May I ask you a question? Given your perspective, what is your take on articles like this one (assuming the paywall doesn't prevent you from reading it)? I genuinely try to understand different perspectives, but I struggle to make sense of pieces like this.

https://www.thecut.com/2023/05/jordan-neely-paid-the-price-for-white-discomfort.html

That article isn't another perspective, it's race baiting trash. The comments section is absolutely disturbing, with most people being supportive of the authors racist ramblings.

I just read that article and now I want to stab my eyes out. Can we at least acknowledge that not every crazy black man on the subway is the resurrected Jesus Christ himself? That's seven minutes of time I'm not getting back

Glad I can't see the article behind the paywall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in NYC and take the subway everyday to and from work, and did so right through the pandemic (I’m a doctor so no WFH).

I am at the bway and Lafayette stop a lot because I have friends in the village. I am confused as to how anyone was in a chokehold for 15 minutes, since the stops adjacent to bway and Lafayette are 2 or 3 minutes apart once the train gets moving. 2nd Ave is almost humorously close to Bway & Lafayette - maybe 6 short blocks - and the other stop is nearby on the west side of Washington Square Park. The F train doesn’t run express in that area.

Also, I have been very very uncomfortable on the subway many times when there’s a mentally ill person acting threatening. However, I have NEVER ever seen anyone intervene. There is a protocol: Everyone stares at the ground and is quiet, if it’s getting worse then we move to the far side of the car, and if needed we switch cars at the next stop (crossing our fingers the ranting person doesn’t follow them to the next car). I suspect that the people in that car were utterly terrified since not one but three guys actually took action. That’s almost inconceivable to me.

When I am with my kids and the guys on the subway are screaming, acting threatening or taking off their clothes/relieving themselves in the floor the other passengers have helped shield my kids (and our kids are old enough to know to look down and stay still), but it’s always passive rather than active help from the other passengers. Although I appreciate any sort of help since it can be really very scary!

Also, all of these people online saying to just change train cars when the train is moving… no. It’s not Amtrak - in the subway you are outside of the train with only chains to hang on to. Maybe as an adult, but no way am I dragging my kids outside of the train car and over the connector when that train is hurtling down the track.

It seems like you haven’t read anything about the event. The train was stopped at Bway-Lafayette because people were calling for the police, which is why Penny kept the chokehold going for so long (clearly unnecessarily).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

This. The state of New York does not have a stand your ground policy. It has a duty to retreat policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

This. The state of New York does not have a stand your ground policy. It has a duty to retreat policy.

Sounds like it’s not that clear cut

https://codywarnercriminaldefense.com/can-you-stand-your-ground-in-new-york/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

This. The state of New York does not have a stand your ground policy. It has a duty to retreat policy.

Excellent way to protect the perp. By the time a cop arrives, perp will have done his deed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

Yea allow him to break the eye socket if a 67 year old woman first.

[Anonymous]

14:00 poster here. Like others, I’ve looked up self defense in NY. These are the standard jury instructions that apply to the defense of “justification” (self defense or defense of others). I’m not a criminal lawyer.

https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/cji/1-General/Defenses/CJI2d.Justification.Person.Physical_Force.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the ex Marine’s employment status? Was he honorably or medically discharged from the military (he has a 1000-yard stare)? What’s his current living situation (looks homeless and disheveled)?

There's no such thing as an "ex Marine." It's a title he's earned for life.

If he was not “honorably” discharged then he is an ex Marine.

Medical discharge would still be a Marine. Penny was not dishonorably discharged, and I have no idea where you would get the idea he was.
You obvious are clueless about the military so just stop posting.

I can’t believe anyone would defend putting someone in a chokehold for 15 minutes. It’s obvious Penny has his own mental issues, but all America can see is that the white ex-Marine neutralized the “scary” black man.

The video shows the the chokehold was careful and that he let go when Neely passed out. But whether Penny held the chokehold too long or not, whether Neely's physical state was debilitated from drug use and hard living or not, Penny may well have been entirely justified, given the threats that Neely is now being reported as having been making.

A jury will decide.

Absolutely not. If a person is making verbal threats, you have a duty to retreat in a public place. You don't put hands on the person. You leave the train and call the police.

Yea allow him to break the eye socket if a 67 year old woman first.

Yes, correct in some people's opinion.. Then if she can see well enough and get up, then she can call for help and wait for police.