When Does It Start Getting Easier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little kids take it out of you physically; older kids grind you down emotionally. Trying to be the parent each kid needs is hard as hell, even when you have great kids and everything going for you. When we had three kids we didn’t expect bipolar disorder, one with a learning disability and our precious child getting raped while on a study abroad. I believe we have come through ok, but never ever would have imagined how difficult it would be to shepherd those darling babies through dark, awful times when they still need us but can’t even stand to be in the same room as their parents. So yeah, in some ways it won’t ever be “easy.” I lost just as much sleep to worry and grief sometimes.

I am so sorry PP.

These are the problems I have always assumed people meant by "big people problems," not so much the issues of 2 parents attempting to get 3 kids to 3 simultaneous activities at once. That kind of thing from the mid-parenting years is just something you either choose to grind through and enjoy or opt out of by just not doing so much.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm not trying to say this judgmentally, but why would you consider a third when you don't have balance in your life right now? It's like taking on another pet when your dogs are clawing up the furniture. Never getting a break from your children is not balanced, imo. We're far enough along in the pandemic that if you have the means and if no one's immunocompromised, you should be able to find a sitter for a couple hours a week at least.

If you just miss the cuddly feeling of holding a baby, consider volunteering with babies.

[Anonymous]

What? Lol. I am not depressed or struggling. I'm not OP. I do have kids on both sides of the divide right now though and feel like you guys are being very dismissive.

I think there are two like, swimlanes (apologies for the corporate speak) of parenting here and people are confusing them. One is the worry you feel about parenting your children and your investment in their emotional health. The emotional and mental side of parenting. This is actually I think easier in the early years because yes, little kids little problems. I don't worry about whether my 1 year old is happy or feeling loved, but I can already see that with my 6 year old that my fears and worries for them have become 'bigger'. I know that this mental load so to speak will only grow and get more complex and difficult.

The other swimlane is the physical parenting. Having to constantly be paying attention so no one dies. Listening for every rogue bump, waking up for every nightmare and accident and feeding. This is mentally and physically taxing in an entirely different way and defines for many people the early years. The not being able to have a moment to myself to think. The having only an hour at the end of the day to decompress after all the chores and cleaning and kid stuff is done. The being constantly tired and dragging yourself up to do it again. And I think this is the stuff you DO grit your teeth to get through. You grit your teeth to survive until they sleep through the night. You grit your teeth cleaning up bodily fluids until they can manage that. You grit your teeth and pay attention until you think you can't pay attention for another second to make sure they don't fall down the stairs or under the water in the tub. You grit your teeth through not having enough time. This is the part that literally wears on you as a person and makes it more difficult to cope with the problems going on around you.

Acknowledging that that part is hard and does require some pushing through doesn't take away from the complexities and toughness of that mental load in the first swimlane. They are different, one is lifelong and one is temporary. And I think for the first it is important to just accept that this is your life now and you did make it and that is amazing and awesome and I have actually thought to myself almost exactly what PP said above before. I made it, I got a job and a good husband and got babies out into this world alive and healthy and I made it and I am mostly extremely grateful for that. But that doesn't mean it isn't hard to sit down and immediately have some kid yell for me to come wipe their butt.

This is extremely well said.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It starts getting easier when you recognize that the amount of responsibility you have at home isn’t going to change much, and you take steps to figure out how to live this way long term and enjoy your life instead of powering through it.
This isn’t medical school or law school. It isn’t something that you just set your jaw and grit it out for a few years until you get to the finish line. It isn’t just a few years, and there is no finish line. It’s just life.
Being a mother is like being a daughter or a sister or a wife. Yes. You can be better or worse at it, but no one is perfect, and there are times that it’s easy and times that it’s hard. Ironically, the hard times aren’t necessarily the times of illness and stress like you thought they would be. But, like any relationship, if you find yourself wishing it away, then you are missing the point.

I said earlier that there is no finish line, but I’m going to take that back. There is. And you have crossed it. You finished school, got the job, found the husband, had the kids. You did all of the things to get your life set up. If this isn’t the finish line, then what is? When kids start elementary school? When they move out? Retirement? You can wish your whole life away like this.

You are here. You have all of the things. It isn’t going to “get better.”

Woah. Sometimes DCUM delivers on the real deal.

+1

This is very insightful.

My one quibble would be the newborn stage. The first 3-6 months for each kid (depending on the kid and when you sleep train), IMHO, are for setting your jaw and gritting it out. But beyond that, I think this poster is SPOT on.

+2

I do think the newborn months have their unique challenges, but they’re also such a period of adjustment, at least for your first child, since you’ve never been a parent before. Much of that for me was doing what this poster says about creating and embracing your new reality - which is *not* the same as sanctimoniously cherishing the sleep-deprived days. But her point about not wishing this time away is so key.

When I was slogging through grad school, a good friend a few years ahead of me in the program advised me to keep my eyes on the prize, i.e., finishing my Ph.D., and she was right. But similarly, PP is right that parenting *is* the prize. This is it. I have my hard days and times like anyone (hello, pandemic parenting) but I work very hard to be present and enjoy these days for what they are. Some of that has meant building the infrastructure that another PP outlined (around sleep, an equal partner, etc.), but some of it really is a paradigm shift about what life looks like.

I feel like the bolded is true but a lot of what all of you guys are saying is also BS. Getting your kids to 4 is getting through a LOT of physical labor. It is sleep deprivation, being pooped on, someone randomly walking up to you and hitting you, getting 17 colds in a year when your kid goes to daycare, dealing with postpartum issues (mental and physical). Acting like this is just a tough spot when your baby is 3-6 months old? You are gaslighting people.

Young kids are wonderful hilarious loving special little people, there is nothing in the world quite like being the caretaker of one and knowing its up to you to keep this precious little chubby being alive. But it is also a LOT of work, and there is a significant ease in the physicality of parenting when you have children that sleep at night, are up during the day, can walk distances on their own, who don't poop themselves or have pee accidents on the regular and who can be handed a juicebox without constant supervision. This is just true.

We're not saying it's not hard, we're saying (1) life is harder with kids so (2) you need to find ways to cope that make the load sustainable and (3) it's still hard with older kids, but hard differently. I mean, do you think it's easy talking about things like mental illness with kids? Dealing with mental illness in your own child? Navigating your child being bullied in school? Helping your kid when they have a really lousy teacher for an entire freaking school year?

Of COURSE it's easier physically when your children get older; no one is saying otherwise. But emotionally, it's a whole other ball of wax. Again, I'm not at all diminishing how grueling the early years are with really little ones and I'm not telling you or anyone to "cherish these days" or whatever nonsense. I'm just pointing out that you can't endlessly hold out for "when it gets easier."

I just disagree with you. The average 7 year old is easier than the average 2 y ear old. And op is in the thick of those grueling early years. I love my kids. And I agree overall that you shouldn’t wait around for your kids to get easier or to change your life to suit the lifestyle of a parent versus thinking you will return to pre kid life. I also think those first three years are hard in a unique way that is very difficult and you guys are really diminishing that. And yes, big kid big problems I get that but at least you aren’t sleep deprived and dealing with post partum hormones

Yeah, it's really hard when you're so mired in how difficult your life is that you can't fathom anything else and won't (can't?) comprehend what other people are telling you. I don't know what else to say, other than I'm sorry you're struggling. You might want to consider a depression screening, though. That level of self-absorption in the context of exhaustion can be a hallmark of it.

What? Lol. I am not depressed or struggling. I'm not OP. I do have kids on both sides of the divide right now though and feel like you guys are being very dismissive.

I think there are two like, swimlanes (apologies for the corporate speak) of parenting here and people are confusing them. One is the worry you feel about parenting your children and your investment in their emotional health. The emotional and mental side of parenting. This is actually I think easier in the early years because yes, little kids little problems. I don't worry about whether my 1 year old is happy or feeling loved, but I can already see that with my 6 year old that my fears and worries for them have become 'bigger'. I know that this mental load so to speak will only grow and get more complex and difficult.

The other swimlane is the physical parenting. Having to constantly be paying attention so no one dies. Listening for every rogue bump, waking up for every nightmare and accident and feeding. This is mentally and physically taxing in an entirely different way and defines for many people the early years. The not being able to have a moment to myself to think. The having only an hour at the end of the day to decompress after all the chores and cleaning and kid stuff is done. The being constantly tired and dragging yourself up to do it again. And I think this is the stuff you DO grit your teeth to get through. You grit your teeth to survive until they sleep through the night. You grit your teeth cleaning up bodily fluids until they can manage that. You grit your teeth and pay attention until you think you can't pay attention for another second to make sure they don't fall down the stairs or under the water in the tub. You grit your teeth through not having enough time. This is the part that literally wears on you as a person and makes it more difficult to cope with the problems going on around you.

Acknowledging that that part is hard and does require some pushing through doesn't take away from the complexities and toughness of that mental load in the first swimlane. They are different, one is lifelong and one is temporary. And I think for the first it is important to just accept that this is your life now and you did make it and that is amazing and awesome and I have actually thought to myself almost exactly what PP said above before. I made it, I got a job and a good husband and got babies out into this world alive and healthy and I made it and I am mostly extremely grateful for that. But that doesn't mean it isn't hard to sit down and immediately have some kid yell for me to come wipe their butt.

I think you're mischaracterizing and, thus, minimizing, the first swimlane you describe. It's not solely worrying about your children, it's *managing* the big problems that arise with older kids: mental illness, substance use, safety around things like cars and letting them go off on their own, managing relationships with peers, at school, etc. It's not about you getting spun up in your head, it's about *actually dealing* with the emotional and relational and safety problems that arise, which many parents really, really struggle with. It's IEP meetings, bullies, fights with friends, setting and maintaining limits around access to cell phones and cars, preventing substance use, suicidal ideation, your daughter's early puberty, etc. I've gotten better about not worrying about what might happen, but these are all things that can and do happen, and need action to address. I get that parents of very little kids don't see that yet, but it doesn't make these things fictitious.

Look, I have three (9, 7, 5). I remember well how physically demanding they were when they were younger. My youngest was a nightmare to potty train and I still shudder when I think about it. But I do think there's a tendency among some parents to not do things that will make that time easier (e.g., sleep training) and also for some parents to think that whatever time they're currently in is the hardest and dismiss everything else. Also, some parents just find things generally hard and always will, and some parents just go with it, accept the scut work for what it is, and move on.

I'm actually not minimizing. I think swimlane one is really hard and complicated. It's lifelong and it involves problems that sometimes cannot be solved. It is the real meat of parenting. I just think they are different and one actually does require 'gritting your teeth' to get through. It isn't a question of which swimlane is more challenging to navigate, its what type of effort is required to navigate it.

I had hyperemesis in all three pregnancies. I had to grit my teeth through that. And all the challenges of even early babyhood paled in comparison because when I wasn't throwing up 15 times a day, everything was a little easier and I was able to take on more because I was not so thoroughly physically exhausted.

I feel like this is similar to my older kids versus my younger kids. It is still challenging but my physical person being healthy allows me to face those challenges in a better way then when I'm really physically tapped from the grind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not trying to say this judgmentally, but why would you consider a third when you don't have balance in your life right now? It's like taking on another pet when your dogs are clawing up the furniture. Never getting a break from your children is not balanced, imo. We're far enough along in the pandemic that if you have the means and if no one's immunocompromised, you should be able to find a sitter for a couple hours a week at least.

If you just miss the cuddly feeling of holding a baby, consider volunteering with babies.

The OP currently has a newborn. Even most of the people who are of the "it doesn't get easier, it's just different, learn to live with it" philosophy are carving out exceptions for the newborn phase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids (newborn and 2.5). Husband and I both work full-time in demanding-is jobs and we have a nanny, but no family support (everyone lives 5+ hours away and no one is in a position to drop everything and help unless there is a big emergency). We bring our kids on date nights and we don't have time alone together, except for when the kids are sleeping. We are thinking of having a third in a few years (that was always the plan). Just grinding it out right now and wondering when it starts getting easier. I've heard it's when your youngest is more independent, around 7. That makes sense to me, but then people always say "bigger kids bigger problems." I totally understand that having a kid who can't make their own meals and throws tantrums is easier than dealing with a mental health crisis or rehab. But that phrase always makes me feel like it will never get easier. So, when does it start getting easier for most people?

I think you need to identify exactly which parts are hard for you and then you can start to think about when things might get easier.

For example, lack of sleep was really hard for me, but once they both slept through the night, it became a lot easier. I have friends who are still ok with their kids waking up in the middle of the night with issues and it's never been a problem for them.

For some, the logistics of cooking for multiple people (especially when kids eat really early and/or not the same things you do and when you work all day like you do - I do as well), for others it's relaxing to plan and cook so it's not a stressor.

For some it's the house stuff - laundry, cleaning, etc. Others outsource all of that so it's not a concern. Hopefully you can see where I'm going.

If what you are struggling with is finding time alone and time with your husband, which is what it sounds like, then that gets easier around maybe 5, definitely 6, and for sure by 7, when they start to be able to and want to play on their own. I have twin girls so they've always had each other as playmates, so it may not hold true for yours of different ages (and possibly different genders?), but their ability to go to the playroom and play together while we're at home has led to much more time for my husband and I, mostly during the weekends since during the week we're both working so generally all time not spent working is with the kids.

Of course, having a baby just shifts that timeline back for you, since if you're not pregnant yet you are at least 6 years away from being at the point of having independent kids.

Also, as a working mom whose husband also has a full-time job (both of which I'd consider demanding-ish, like yours), when they get older and start doing more activities it also becomes more difficult, and this is exponentially true with three kids. We also have a full-time nanny, even though the kids are in school all day (not now, obviously, since it's summer), but even still there are times when their activities end at or around the same time, which means that the nanny can pick up one and my husband or I have to pick up the other. I can't even imagine if we had a third kid to add into the mix! My girls did the same things until about age 7, which is when their interests in sports diverged, but since yours are of different ages, you are likely going to have them in different levels even if they're in the same sport, so you're going to find yourself pulled in multiple directions.

I never wanted three kids so I'm clearly coming from that bias, but I can't see why you would want three either, given your current situation. Wait until your two are a little older and you can breathe and enjoy them. Adding a third just seems like a terrible idea and will only stretch you thinner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^Also, I completely agree with 12:20, especially about being rigid AF about sleep, dividing labor, and the career thing. Friends with one or two kids don’t understand why we put ours to bed early and are such freaks about sleep; with 3+ kids, you have to be.

And if your spouse can’t handle caring solo for whatever number of children you have, FFS, don’t have another kid. I remember going to brunch with girlfriends when our second was a few months old and people were shocked: “where’s the baby?” Uh, with my husband? His father? He’s quite capable of keeping a toddler and a newborn alive and well for a few hours.

I agree with all of this.

Don't have more kids than you and your husband can each handle alone. Sure there are times when it makes sense to divide and conquer or all be together, but for crying out loud, why anyone has more kids than either they or their spouse can handle it makes no sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP. You said that you look at the reward as 30 years down the road. YOU said that. PP only pointed that out and said she enjoys the life she has NOW. Clearly she struck a nerve...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP. You said that you look at the reward as 30 years down the road. YOU said that. PP only pointed that out and said she enjoys the life she has NOW. Clearly she struck a nerve...

NP here, and I totally agree with defending the PP above. I get to some extent the "envision who you want around the table in 20 years" but I'd rather see "life as a journey, not a destination". I want to enjoy those 20 years leading up to the dinner, too. We're stopping at 2 because I'm afraid a third would tip the balance from loving more of my life to enduring more of my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP. You said that you look at the reward as 30 years down the road. YOU said that. PP only pointed that out and said she enjoys the life she has NOW. Clearly she struck a nerve...

NP here, and I totally agree with defending the PP above. I get to some extent the "envision who you want around the table in 20 years" but I'd rather see "life as a journey, not a destination". I want to enjoy those 20 years leading up to the dinner, too. We're stopping at 2 because I'm afraid a third would tip the balance from loving more of my life to enduring more of my life.

Aw, thanks for sticking up for me, PPs. I truly didn’t mean to strike the nerve I did, or any ill-intent, only to point out that looking that far ahead is an awfully long time to endure, as you put it so well, PP, rather than enjoy. I feel exactly as you do about having a fourth, and so we didn’t.

I still don’t know where that PP got the idea that I don’t think my kids will want to see me when they’re adults. DH and I sometimes joke about particularly embarrassing kid photos that they’re already slated for the rehearsal dinner slide show, so it’s not like we never think happily about our long-term future. But this past year has made me even more determined to enjoy the life I have now as much as possible, warts and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP. You said that you look at the reward as 30 years down the road. YOU said that. PP only pointed that out and said she enjoys the life she has NOW. Clearly she struck a nerve...

NP here, and I totally agree with defending the PP above. I get to some extent the "envision who you want around the table in 20 years" but I'd rather see "life as a journey, not a destination". I want to enjoy those 20 years leading up to the dinner, too. We're stopping at 2 because I'm afraid a third would tip the balance from loving more of my life to enduring more of my life.

Aw, thanks for sticking up for me, PPs. I truly didn’t mean to strike the nerve I did, or any ill-intent, only to point out that looking that far ahead is an awfully long time to endure, as you put it so well, PP, rather than enjoy. I feel exactly as you do about having a fourth, and so we didn’t.

I still don’t know where that PP got the idea that I don’t think my kids will want to see me when they’re adults. DH and I sometimes joke about particularly embarrassing kid photos that they’re already slated for the rehearsal dinner slide show, so it’s not like we never think happily about our long-term future. But this past year has made me even more determined to enjoy the life I have now as much as possible, warts and all.

I am the original PP. I think you and others have vastly misunderstood my point. Of course I enjoy the day to day. I love children, that's why I'm a stay at home mom to three toddlers. But OP asked specifically when it gets better...the thought that gets me through the particularly hard moments is that I will have a large family someday. If you don't need that to get through the day, great! Good for you. But to act like it's "illogical" (your words) to have that thought is kind of ridiculous. Especially since a lot of us have that thought! It really comes across as shaming anyone who tells themselves they're putting in the work in now for a goal down the road. That's how life works. We work towards something, we build something. Each positive interaction I have with my child is building something.

There's a trend I see here that minimizes the importance of family. Lots of posts "well you can't make your kids like each other, or like you". Something tells me you're in that camp. We have VASTLY different parenting philosophies and approaches to family and we're obviously very different types of people. Please keep an open mind that other humans look at parenting and family differently than you.

[Anonymous]

^^TLDR: nowhere did I say the only reason I'm doing this is for my table in 30 years. Because that's not the reason I'm doing this! I'm talking specifically about what you tell yourself in low moments. In fact I would be very curious to know how you get through those low moments, because it's obviously very differently than I do and many other posters do!

[Anonymous]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it illogical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP. You said that you look at the reward as 30 years down the road. YOU said that. PP only pointed that out and said she enjoys the life she has NOW. Clearly she struck a nerve...

NP here, and I totally agree with defending the PP above. I get to some extent the "envision who you want around the table in 20 years" but I'd rather see "life as a journey, not a destination". I want to enjoy those 20 years leading up to the dinner, too. We're stopping at 2 because I'm afraid a third would tip the balance from loving more of my life to enduring more of my life.

Aw, thanks for sticking up for me, PPs. I truly didn’t mean to strike the nerve I did, or any ill-intent, only to point out that looking that far ahead is an awfully long time to endure, as you put it so well, PP, rather than enjoy. I feel exactly as you do about having a fourth, and so we didn’t.

I still don’t know where that PP got the idea that I don’t think my kids will want to see me when they’re adults. DH and I sometimes joke about particularly embarrassing kid photos that they’re already slated for the rehearsal dinner slide show, so it’s not like we never think happily about our long-term future. But this past year has made me even more determined to enjoy the life I have now as much as possible, warts and all.

I am the original PP. I think you and others have vastly misunderstood my point. Of course I enjoy the day to day. I love children, that's why I'm a stay at home mom to three toddlers. But OP asked specifically when it gets better...the thought that gets me through the particularly hard moments is that I will have a large family someday. If you don't need that to get through the day, great! Good for you. But to act like it's "illogical" (your words) to have that thought is kind of ridiculous. Especially since a lot of us have that thought! It really comes across as shaming anyone who tells themselves they're putting in the work in now for a goal down the road. That's how life works. We work towards something, we build something. Each positive interaction I have with my child is building something.

There's a trend I see here that minimizes the importance of family. Lots of posts "well you can't make your kids like each other, or like you". Something tells me you're in that camp. We have VASTLY different parenting philosophies and approaches to family and we're obviously very different types of people. Please keep an open mind that other humans look at parenting and family differently than you.

I’m the PP who first described that reasoning as illogical. Despite what you accused me of, I don’t hold that belief out of malice. I hold it because in my various work environments I’ve come across some very sick kids—kids who don’t make it—and then in other settings, I’ve worked with adults with serious mental illness. So it’s just not within my reality to comfort myself with the thought that I will have a large family someday. I really hope I do, of course, but I have seen way, way too often that it doesn’t always work that way.

Also, please don’t accuse me of not caring about my family, because nothing is further from the truth. In multiple posts, including this one, you have made all kinds of assumptions about who I am and what I believe, solely because I struck a nerve.

Don’t get me started on the idea that simply because a lot of people believe something, it can’t be illogical. Tens of millions of unvaccinated Americans undermine that point.

[Anonymous]

^^oh, and how do I get through low moments? I remind myself that bedtime is coming soon. And then, once my kids are asleep, I go and kiss them and tell them I love them, so I can start fresh again the next day.

I work hard to prevent low moments by meditating, exercising daily, and spending time with people I care about, and reminding myself how grateful I am for them. Daily.