When Does It Start Getting Easier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean this with kindness. Do not have a third. Don’t. Trust me. It’s really really hard with two parents who work. Your health and your marriage especially will take a major hit. You won’t listen but at least I told you so.

I'm listening. Why is 3 so much harder? I love my job and I don't plan to give it up, but I do feel bad having a sitter on the weekends because we have a nanny from 8:30-5:30 from M-F. I work in a corporate role, but am remote. That might make 3 easier, right?

I am a year into my third. My husband and I both work but for the fed so we have it “easier” than private employees. I used to work for a private accounting firm. Anyway. Here are the reasons it is hard:

Money—daycare plus everything else plus cost of traveling with a third, doing anything with a third, all the kid expenses etc.
Time - one on one time with each child is very hard. It takes planning and sacrifice and even then I often fall short. To the extent I succeed it is because of my fed job and sacrificing me time or marriage time or sleep.
Doing things — this will change and evolve but right now we can’t do fun stuff as a family as much because of naps and baby being too young to enjoy certain activities/ risk of getting cranky. As a result one of us usually stays with baby while other parent takes kids skiing or swimming or on a long car ride somewhere etc. I miss doing things as a family unit.
Extra curriculers- our oldest kids are not yet interested in sports which is good because there would be no time to make this happen. If/when that changes it will be a hair pulling logistical nightmare.

You can completely love and adore your kids while wishing you hadn’t been so hasty to have a third.

[Anonymous]

When the youngest is 4.

[Anonymous]

I would seriously rethink having a third if you are working full time and have no family help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean this with kindness. Do not have a third. Don’t. Trust me. It’s really really hard with two parents who work. Your health and your marriage especially will take a major hit. You won’t listen but at least I told you so.

I'm listening. Why is 3 so much harder? I love my job and I don't plan to give it up, but I do feel bad having a sitter on the weekends because we have a nanny from 8:30-5:30 from M-F. I work in a corporate role, but am remote. That might make 3 easier, right?

No, not really. With 3 you are outnumbered and cannot give enough time to any of them.

Think down the road. Babies are one thing - but those same kids get older. Imagine all three of your kids love sports or music or dance, what have you - how do you juggle conflicting practice times and concerts and games? Add in birthday parties and sleepovers and parent teacher conferences. It's hard enough when families have a grandparent to help out, or a stay at home parent. You are simply outnumbered. It can be so much fun and a loving family but it's a lot, logistically.

And then add in the cost, and the challenges of traveling as a family of five vs. four.

[Anonymous]

It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids (newborn and 2.5). Husband and I both work full-time in demanding-is jobs and we have a nanny, but no family support (everyone lives 5+ hours away and no one is in a position to drop everything and help unless there is a big emergency). We bring our kids on date nights and we don't have time alone together, except for when the kids are sleeping. We are thinking of having a third in a few years (that was always the plan). Just grinding it out right now and wondering when it starts getting easier. I've heard it's when your youngest is more independent, around 7. That makes sense to me, but then people always say "bigger kids bigger problems." I totally understand that having a kid who can't make their own meals and throws tantrums is easier than dealing with a mental health crisis or rehab. But that phrase always makes me feel like it will never get easier. So, when does it start getting easier for most people?

I have three (7, 9, 11), and this year is the easiest I've had so far. Yes, my oldest has "big kid" problems, but having kids who can make their own food, put themselves to bed (brush their own teeth, shower, etc), read, entertain themselves, and even be left at home for short periods (11 year old is no big deal but I can leave all three of them for short periods now!!), is LIFE CHANGING. I really struggled when my youngest two were the ages of your kids, but it does get easier. What also helped was when I started taking anti-anxiety meds when my youngest was born....

[Anonymous]

I have three in the 'bad' time. Ages almost 6, almost 4 and 18 months. We also work full time and have no family help. Closest grandparents are an 8 hour drive away.

I think the person who said it is your temperament and your kids temperament that matters most is on point. And your income TBH.

Our lives are not bad! Although I feel like we are at a point where in a year we will be in a much easier space than we are even now. But we were not struggling when it was the two of them. Especially when we had a nanny, which we had until last June. For me I think the things it comes down to are...

1) If you don't have family nearby, you do need robust and reliable childcare options. Reliable sitters and reliable nanny/daycare. When we had a nanny we had date night built into her salary, every other week she would stay late for a date night. That one night every other week was an important pressure valve for us through those really demanding early months and ensured we made time for each other and because it was the nanny the kids were great with it.

2) Become a psycho sleep person. We are chill people, but we're not chill about sleep. Kids aren't in our beds and they are on a steady reliable daily sleep schedule. We have never been reading books to a 2 year old at 2 am. There is no getting water at 5am. There is sleeping time and awake time and we drill this in from like, I mean we started soft pushing towards a schedule at like 4 weeks old (NOT sleep training then but like, getting them into a schedule then). My kids all slept through the night by 6 weeks with one wake up for a feeding, and slept through entirely by 6-9 months and went to a single nap at 12 months. We have orbited around sleep for almost 5 years, but it makes all of us happier.

3) We are very routine driven people naturally and that helps. Our days do not change very much. Our kids know what to expect. And we kind of have accepted that until our youngest gets to the point where she can occasionally skip naps, that its just less fun to go out and do stuff as a family, so we just don't. We set up our house to be fun and very very kid oriented.

4) I am putting this as 4 but it is IMO the most important one. You need an egalitarian marriage and distribution of work in the household. Or we did. My husband does every load of laundry in this house. Even mine. He did 50% of the night wake ups and feedings, he wakes up and does mornings every other day (and sleeps in the other every other days). he does 50% of the bedtimes. He is 110% capable of watching the kids and doing a triple bedtime if I want to go out with friends and I am capable of doing it so he can do his team sports once a week. We carry each other's burdens and we do it consciously, willingly, and with love.

5) We both have careers, but neither of us has a CAREER. No one needs to work until 11pm. Neither of us are ambitious. We have good paying jobs and we are both entirely satisfied with putting any type of career advancement on the back burner for a few years. And that is BOTH of us, neither of us expects the other to carry the bag while we go off otherwise fulfilled. But we are also present in our careers and both of us are well regarded and respected. And, due to number 4, if one of us does need to put more time into work for some reason, the other one is happy to step up for a bit. We're just not out there seeking promotions etc.

5) You gotta be a little go with the flow and you have to be ok with the chaos. My house is messy a lot. I try to keep up but I don't always keep up. Sometimes you have to not do something you want to do because a kid started puking, and not carry around anger about it. I'm ok with mac and cheese dinners once a week and not making my kids organic chickpea salads every night.

All that said, as I kind of alluded to earlier, every day is a little easier. When my youngest was 9-15 months I think that was the hardest time we went through. She was mobile and a loose cannon and the other two still so little. But literally every month is better as she gets more competent, can understand no, etc. We're about to say goodbye to bottles forever (woohoo!) and within a year I think we will be saying goodbye to diapers! Saying goodbye to formula was huge. We are in a position where every few months we get to offload some large 'baby' responsibility. Now they can all walk if we need them to! I think that when the youngest is like 2.5-3 we will be in a MUCH easier place, and every year after that!

I will say the one thing that really rings true is that it is harder to give them all the individual attention they need. My oldest I think in particular doesn't always get everything she needs from us and I've been trying to consciously put more time in with her. But they are also a little pack and love each other so much. We work hard on building a culture of how important family is, being there for each other, sticking up for each other, being a GOOD brother and a GOOD sister etc. And so there are pros and cons.

This is really long. I feel like the TL/DR is, if you can let go a bit and work hard to set up the infrastructure you need to feel supported and happy and healthy then three is doable. But if you can't, then stopping at 2 is fine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have three in the 'bad' time. Ages almost 6, almost 4 and 18 months. We also work full time and have no family help. Closest grandparents are an 8 hour drive away.

I think the person who said it is your temperament and your kids temperament that matters most is on point. And your income TBH.

Our lives are not bad! Although I feel like we are at a point where in a year we will be in a much easier space than we are even now. But we were not struggling when it was the two of them. Especially when we had a nanny, which we had until last June. For me I think the things it comes down to are...

1) If you don't have family nearby, you do need robust and reliable childcare options. Reliable sitters and reliable nanny/daycare. When we had a nanny we had date night built into her salary, every other week she would stay late for a date night. That one night every other week was an important pressure valve for us through those really demanding early months and ensured we made time for each other and because it was the nanny the kids were great with it.

2) Become a psycho sleep person. We are chill people, but we're not chill about sleep. Kids aren't in our beds and they are on a steady reliable daily sleep schedule. We have never been reading books to a 2 year old at 2 am. There is no getting water at 5am. There is sleeping time and awake time and we drill this in from like, I mean we started soft pushing towards a schedule at like 4 weeks old (NOT sleep training then but like, getting them into a schedule then). My kids all slept through the night by 6 weeks with one wake up for a feeding, and slept through entirely by 6-9 months and went to a single nap at 12 months. We have orbited around sleep for almost 5 years, but it makes all of us happier.

3) We are very routine driven people naturally and that helps. Our days do not change very much. Our kids know what to expect. And we kind of have accepted that until our youngest gets to the point where she can occasionally skip naps, that its just less fun to go out and do stuff as a family, so we just don't. We set up our house to be fun and very very kid oriented.

4) I am putting this as 4 but it is IMO the most important one. You need an egalitarian marriage and distribution of work in the household. Or we did. My husband does every load of laundry in this house. Even mine. He did 50% of the night wake ups and feedings, he wakes up and does mornings every other day (and sleeps in the other every other days). he does 50% of the bedtimes. He is 110% capable of watching the kids and doing a triple bedtime if I want to go out with friends and I am capable of doing it so he can do his team sports once a week. We carry each other's burdens and we do it consciously, willingly, and with love.

5) We both have careers, but neither of us has a CAREER. No one needs to work until 11pm. Neither of us are ambitious. We have good paying jobs and we are both entirely satisfied with putting any type of career advancement on the back burner for a few years. And that is BOTH of us, neither of us expects the other to carry the bag while we go off otherwise fulfilled. But we are also present in our careers and both of us are well regarded and respected. And, due to number 4, if one of us does need to put more time into work for some reason, the other one is happy to step up for a bit. We're just not out there seeking promotions etc.

5) You gotta be a little go with the flow and you have to be ok with the chaos. My house is messy a lot. I try to keep up but I don't always keep up. Sometimes you have to not do something you want to do because a kid started puking, and not carry around anger about it. I'm ok with mac and cheese dinners once a week and not making my kids organic chickpea salads every night.

All that said, as I kind of alluded to earlier, every day is a little easier. When my youngest was 9-15 months I think that was the hardest time we went through. She was mobile and a loose cannon and the other two still so little. But literally every month is better as she gets more competent, can understand no, etc. We're about to say goodbye to bottles forever (woohoo!) and within a year I think we will be saying goodbye to diapers! Saying goodbye to formula was huge. We are in a position where every few months we get to offload some large 'baby' responsibility. Now they can all walk if we need them to! I think that when the youngest is like 2.5-3 we will be in a MUCH easier place, and every year after that!

I will say the one thing that really rings true is that it is harder to give them all the individual attention they need. My oldest I think in particular doesn't always get everything she needs from us and I've been trying to consciously put more time in with her. But they are also a little pack and love each other so much. We work hard on building a culture of how important family is, being there for each other, sticking up for each other, being a GOOD brother and a GOOD sister etc. And so there are pros and cons.

This is really long. I feel like the TL/DR is, if you can let go a bit and work hard to set up the infrastructure you need to feel supported and happy and healthy then three is doable. But if you can't, then stopping at 2 is fine!

I’m one of the moms of three above where youngest 1. This is so so good. I needed to read this. I wish we were friends in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

[Anonymous]

^^Also, I completely agree with 12:20, especially about being rigid AF about sleep, dividing labor, and the career thing. Friends with one or two kids don’t understand why we put ours to bed early and are such freaks about sleep; with 3+ kids, you have to be.

And if your spouse can’t handle caring solo for whatever number of children you have, FFS, don’t have another kid. I remember going to brunch with girlfriends when our second was a few months old and people were shocked: “where’s the baby?” Uh, with my husband? His father? He’s quite capable of keeping a toddler and a newborn alive and well for a few hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^Also, I completely agree with 12:20, especially about being rigid AF about sleep, dividing labor, and the career thing. Friends with one or two kids don’t understand why we put ours to bed early and are such freaks about sleep; with 3+ kids, you have to be.

And if your spouse can’t handle caring solo for whatever number of children you have, FFS, don’t have another kid. I remember going to brunch with girlfriends when our second was a few months old and people were shocked: “where’s the baby?” Uh, with my husband? His father? He’s quite capable of keeping a toddler and a newborn alive and well for a few hours.

Yes to all of this. My husband puts all three to bed once a week when I do tennis and I do the same for him for cross fit. A partner who can’t manage the kids he made solo is not a partner. Is it harder and messier and less fun solo? Of course but we each do it sometimes so the other parent can recharge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP but I think it was pretty clear it was directed at the reasoning ("I want a large group at Christmas in 20 years, so I'll have three" which I agree, you see a lot on DCUM, and I also agree it's a problematic argument for having three for the reasons given. I don't think it was directed at your situation in particular.

[Anonymous]

These are the threads that always scared the living daylights out of me pre-kids. While I do feel for those of you going through a rough time, I'm SO GLAD I didn't listen to most of you people. I believe you when you say your life is really hard with kids, but that's not a given - mine isn't and really has never been. I've done both the SAHM and working parent life and they both have challenges but the good vastly outweigh the bad for me. And no I don't have any family nearby for free help - though I do have a fantastic spouse and partner. I have many friends who feel the same as me, and for all the "no one tells you how hard it's going to be" talk we feel the opposite - THAT'S ALL YOU HEAR! So for other people reading: don't just assume life is going to super hard once you add kids - this is a very individual thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It totally depends on your temperament and the temperament of your kids. If you are fine with chaos and not every kid getting to be in every activity (or you missing those activities) three is fine. If you have easy kids three is fine.

I have a low tolerance for chaos. I really wanted three though, so I'm a SAHM mom with a full time nanny and parents who live down the street. If we weren't able to have those things we probably would have stopped at one. I had to choose career or 3, because my DH works 70 hours a week and someone had to be home.

The way we look at it- it's hard but the reward comes in 30 years with a full thanksgiving or Christmas table. We want a big family to enjoy as we age and are putting in the work now.

DP who has three: I see the bolded reasoning a lot, and I think it’s completely illogical. First, you have to *get through* the time of having three kids: don’t make decisions based on a future that far down the road. Second, nothing is given. You have NO idea what the future holds, so don’t live for it. Finally, if you overextend yourself that much to raise the big family you always wanted, ignoring the reality of what it’s like to raise said family, there’s a decent chance you won’t have the kind of home life that makes adult kids want to spend that much time with their parents later on. Very few people can afford the resources of a SAH parent AND a full-time nanny AND grandparents down the street. That’s… not realistic for most.

We have three and love it and embrace the chaos and messiness that comes with raising three kids. I certainly hope we’ll all be close in 20+ years and for grandkids and all that, but I can’t fathom using such a long timeframe to drive this kind of decision. DH and I love having three kids *now* and look forward to *raising them*, not the time when they’ll be out of the house.

Wow you are reading a lot into my post that isn't there, and incredibly rude to boot. How is wanting my kids for Christmas or thanksgiving (not AND, OR, I'm realistic that they will have other things going on in their life) expecting my adult kids to spend a lot of time with me? I pity you that you don't think your kids will want to spend a holiday with you.

And where did I say we don't enjoy raising our kids? Absolutely nowhere. We love it, what WHY WE HAD THREE. I have a nanny because I prioritize spending a lot of one on one time with my kids, I'm never without a child. My husband devotes every second he isn't working to our kids.

I'm not saying you need to have these resources to have three, I'm saying for me, with my anxiety and OCD it would have been impossible to have three and a job, so I picked this version of life and I'm very happy with it.

Ask yourself why you're reading the worst possible motives into someone's else's anodyne post.

NP but I think it was pretty clear it was directed at the reasoning ("I want a large group at Christmas in 20 years, so I'll have three" which I agree, you see a lot on DCUM, and I also agree it's a problematic argument for having three for the reasons given. I don't think it was directed at your situation in particular.

12:20 here, and not the PP you're talking with (and to you other pp, for the record, you come across as uber privileged haha...I think OP and most of our lives would be pretty sweet if we could afford to not work and have a full time nanny! with family down the street to boot. And that isn't a criticism that you have those things, just that you present them as something attainable and sensible for like, anything more than .05% of the country). I think you're being a little harsh. My vision for my life as an old person certainly informed my childbearing desires. My parents both came from large irish catholic families and still today I am close with my buckets of cousins and aunts and uncles and my own siblings. And wanting those types of big loud messy fun get togethers as adults 100% influenced me.

I don't think this should be the only reason you have a lot of kids, and you certainly should not have more kids than you can handle in order to achieve this as you will end up perhaps sabotaging the effort by ending up divorced or with kids who hate you, but acting like people should be immune to the idea that they make decisions about the present to create a future they are seeking is also IMO somewhat silly. Why are you putting money in your 401k if you're only living for today?