The Bachelor 2021- Matt James

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else keeping up with the latest drama? Chris Harrison had a train wreck interview this week with Rachel Lindsay. Petition to remove him gaining traction (although I don’t think it will work).

If you haven’t watched the interview, please do so- it’s jaw-droppingly awful: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmY1gSAuRk

I don't know what you are talking about. I watched the interview with Rachel Lindsay and I don't think it's anything at all. Most white people are not good at talking about racial issues. Harrison is no exception. He's not perfect, but my god... do we have to slam everyone who says anything about racial stuff? Let's not equate him with the "Unite the Right" type of people. Harrison is wrong to suggest that 50million people went to parties at Southern plantations and wrong to suggest that it's no big deal and wrong to suggest that nobody knew that in 2018. That's on him. But, he also has some good points: that people need to let Rachel speak before defining everything about her; that Rachel was young and from a society/region of the country where this wasn't unusual.

To expect that a girl who grew up in rural GA is going to know better than everyone around her at the age of 21 --- I just think that's asking a bit much. Rachel is a product of GA. Period. She has made a statement owning up to how offensive that party was. She is learning and making changes.

As for Harrison -- I don't think he did anything so egregious.

Here’s the issue. As he interrupted Rachel Lindsay and said “who are you to ...”, spoke over her and spoke all about grace and compassion for Rachael K., he showed none of that grace and compassion to his “friend” and fellow Christian, Rachel Lindsey. She had to sit there and let him defend racist behavior and react perfectly because anything less than perfect would have disproportionately impacted her. Even with her not getting many words in, there are people on social media blaming Rachel Lindsay believe it or not. If he had genuinely approached a conversation about race with humility about wanting to understand but didn’t get everything perfect, that would be one thing. If he only said, I’m going to wait until Rachel K. speaks so she has a chance to address it - and he applied that same standard to POC and non-POC alike, that would have been fine. But it was very much one of those as a white male I’m going to tell you how you should feel as an African-American about racism and diminish your experience so I don’t have to be accountable or change my behavior. I had a co-worker like that so it was a flashback moment for me.

I never said he was Unite the Right. Here’s the thing. If you have “50 million people” (note, the over exaggeration was deliberate by Chris Harrison to make it sound like it was okay) in 2018 that should have known better than to glorify enslavement of people for an event that was banned already on the national level for the Greek organization since 2016 that try to justify it as “an opportunity to dress up” for a night on the town wrap it up in aw shucksism and blame “woke police” for reigning on their parade, how is the helpful in addressing racism and how does that help against the Unite the Right types that might be overlapping at those same events? I’m also confused how the “liberal” education we hear about is somehow teaching this leftist version of history but at the same time a 21 year old from rural Georgia not only didn’t know it wasn’t just a nice looking building, but somehow didn’t have access to the internet or books to learn otherwise. Old enough to vote, drink, drive a car, get married, can have kids, go to college, and enlist in the military but just way to young to be able to figure out it, even with the national organization banning the theme/event. Um okay. So what’s Chris Harrison’s excuse? In my opinion the apology from Rachel K, was direct. However, hard to say whether she is actually making changes - it’s been a hot minute since the apology statement came out and six weeks since this started coming out. But I guess if 2018 was 2000 years ago according to Chris Harrison, I can see how 24 hours is so far in the past that you could confidently say a person has made changes.

Eh - faux outrage

[Anonymous]

#FireChris

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else keeping up with the latest drama? Chris Harrison had a train wreck interview this week with Rachel Lindsay. Petition to remove him gaining traction (although I don’t think it will work).

If you haven’t watched the interview, please do so- it’s jaw-droppingly awful: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmY1gSAuRk

I don't know what you are talking about. I watched the interview with Rachel Lindsay and I don't think it's anything at all. Most white people are not good at talking about racial issues. Harrison is no exception. He's not perfect, but my god... do we have to slam everyone who says anything about racial stuff? Let's not equate him with the "Unite the Right" type of people. Harrison is wrong to suggest that 50million people went to parties at Southern plantations and wrong to suggest that it's no big deal and wrong to suggest that nobody knew that in 2018. That's on him. But, he also has some good points: that people need to let Rachel speak before defining everything about her; that Rachel was young and from a society/region of the country where this wasn't unusual.

To expect that a girl who grew up in rural GA is going to know better than everyone around her at the age of 21 --- I just think that's asking a bit much. Rachel is a product of GA. Period. She has made a statement owning up to how offensive that party was. She is learning and making changes.

As for Harrison -- I don't think he did anything so egregious.

Here’s the issue. As he interrupted Rachel Lindsay and said “who are you to ...”, spoke over her and spoke all about grace and compassion for Rachael K., he showed none of that grace and compassion to his “friend” and fellow Christian, Rachel Lindsey. She had to sit there and let him defend racist behavior and react perfectly because anything less than perfect would have disproportionately impacted her...

Eh - faux outrage

Ok Chris.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:#FireChris

He said he is stepping down and taking some time do get educated and he won’t be back for after the final rose.

My personal feelings, had they just let Rachel K, I don’t think it would be the issue it is now. I think having Chris H step in and intervene, was more damaging. But that’s just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The last two seasons have just been so boring and bad. It's time for this show to end.

I think part of the reason it is so boring now is because of Covid. They can’t travel like they used to, even to hometowns like they used to… The families just have to come to the hotel. The show is very different. I think it will get better when they can do more

[Anonymous]

I finally figured out what bugs me about Rachael L. It's this right here.

"What I wanted to shout in that conversation is, 'You're right Chris Harrison? Who are you? Who are you to say something because you aren't the person who's been offended by the very actions that she is affiliated with by the things that she's done? Who is Rachel Lindsay? Rachel Lindsay is a Black woman—the very person who is affected by this Rachael Kirkconnell. So, I have every right to speak out and say I'm offended, I have every right to say this is what she should do, and I have every right to demand the apology."

I'm good all the way until she says "I have every right to tell her what she should do and I have every right to demand an apology." No you don't. Well, you can demand it, but you may or may not get it. You can think you have every right to tell someone what they should do, but you don't. You don't control anyone else but yourself. This is what irks me about her. She wants to control everyone else, while reaping the benefits of going on a show, finding her husband, and now she's going to play puppet master and control everyone's thoughts and actions? No. You may not like their thoughts and actions, and you may complain about them, but you don't get to demand anything of another human being, nor do you get to tell them how to act, however abhorrent you find their actions to be.

[Anonymous]

A handful of my friends were discussing this and we didn’t realize until someone made one comment but I would guess he’s gay.

- so awkward with his kisses
- unsure of himself, despite 20+ women competing for him
- never been in love, for no real reason
- extremely quick and happy to be massaging his (guy) best friend as a “prank”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A handful of my friends were discussing this and we didn’t realize until someone made one comment but I would guess he’s gay.

- so awkward with his kisses
- unsure of himself, despite 20+ women competing for him
- never been in love, for no real reason
- extremely quick and happy to be massaging his (guy) best friend as a “prank”

He looks like a terrible kisser. That is the only thing I can ever think of when I watch. I feel like the girls are into him but they don’t seem to like his kisses either!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A handful of my friends were discussing this and we didn’t realize until someone made one comment but I would guess he’s gay.

- so awkward with his kisses
- unsure of himself, despite 20+ women competing for him
- never been in love, for no real reason
- extremely quick and happy to be massaging his (guy) best friend as a “prank”

He looks like a terrible kisser. That is the only thing I can ever think of when I watch. I feel like the girls are into him but they don’t seem to like his kisses either!

He does have a weird "I'm biting into a burger, not kissing someone" vibe. Looks awful.

He seems nice enough, just not a great leading Bachelor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I finally figured out what bugs me about Rachael L. It's this right here.

"What I wanted to shout in that conversation is, 'You're right Chris Harrison? Who are you? Who are you to say something because you aren't the person who's been offended by the very actions that she is affiliated with by the things that she's done? Who is Rachel Lindsay? Rachel Lindsay is a Black woman—the very person who is affected by this Rachael Kirkconnell. So, I have every right to speak out and say I'm offended, I have every right to say this is what she should do, and I have every right to demand the apology."

I'm good all the way until she says "I have every right to tell her what she should do and I have every right to demand an apology." No you don't. Well, you can demand it, but you may or may not get it. You can think you have every right to tell someone what they should do, but you don't. You don't control anyone else but yourself. This is what irks me about her. She wants to control everyone else, while reaping the benefits of going on a show, finding her husband, and now she's going to play puppet master and control everyone's thoughts and actions? No. You may not like their thoughts and actions, and you may complain about them, but you don't get to demand anything of another human being, nor do you get to tell them how to act, however abhorrent you find their actions to be.

How is Rachel Lindsay more at fault than either Rachel K or Chris Harrison being condescending and defending racist behavior? At the end of the day, Chris H will be back and Rachel K will have even more IG followers etc but people will stay mad at Rachel L.

Why is reaping benefits of the show even relevant to this conversation? By that argument you could be upset that Chris Harrison is reaping the benefits of the show while doing x or Rachel K gets to reap the benefits while doing y, but the only thing that rubs you the wrong way is that Rachel L, has benefitted from by being on the show, which you can say for hundreds of people that are involved in the franchise, and has an opinion that you don’t agree with. Throwing that into the mix sounds very much like a “know your place and be happy for what you have” type comment and that rubs me the wrong way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I finally figured out what bugs me about Rachael L. It's this right here.

"What I wanted to shout in that conversation is, 'You're right Chris Harrison? Who are you? Who are you to say something because you aren't the person who's been offended by the very actions that she is affiliated with by the things that she's done? Who is Rachel Lindsay? Rachel Lindsay is a Black woman—the very person who is affected by this Rachael Kirkconnell. So, I have every right to speak out and say I'm offended, I have every right to say this is what she should do, and I have every right to demand the apology."

I'm good all the way until she says "I have every right to tell her what she should do and I have every right to demand an apology." No you don't. Well, you can demand it, but you may or may not get it. You can think you have every right to tell someone what they should do, but you don't. You don't control anyone else but yourself. This is what irks me about her. She wants to control everyone else, while reaping the benefits of going on a show, finding her husband, and now she's going to play puppet master and control everyone's thoughts and actions? No. You may not like their thoughts and actions, and you may complain about them, but you don't get to demand anything of another human being, nor do you get to tell them how to act, however abhorrent you find their actions to be.

How is Rachel Lindsay more at fault than either Rachel K or Chris Harrison being condescending and defending racist behavior? At the end of the day, Chris H will be back and Rachel K will have even more IG followers etc but people will stay mad at Rachel L.

Why is reaping benefits of the show even relevant to this conversation? By that argument you could be upset that Chris Harrison is reaping the benefits of the show while doing x or Rachel K gets to reap the benefits while doing y, but the only thing that rubs you the wrong way is that Rachel L, has benefitted from by being on the show, which you can say for hundreds of people that are involved in the franchise, and has an opinion that you don’t agree with. Throwing that into the mix sounds very much like a “know your place and be happy for what you have” type comment and that rubs me the wrong way.

I see your point there, fair enough. Certainly didn't mean to suggest "know your place...." I had posted on another deleted thread on cancel culture that this whole thing is just perplexing me for some reason, but that I also understand that it's so much easier to make change from within, and that's what Rachael L. has done, pretty successfully, and that's a good thing,. You're right. Whether she found her husband there is immaterial to whether the show is racist. But I stand by the first issue, which is what I was really posting about. She doesn't get to demand apologies or tell someone what they should do. She can find it racist and awful and everything else, but she doesn't get to demand how someone acts or that they apologize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A handful of my friends were discussing this and we didn’t realize until someone made one comment but I would guess he’s gay.

- so awkward with his kisses
- unsure of himself, despite 20+ women competing for him
- never been in love, for no real reason
- extremely quick and happy to be massaging his (guy) best friend as a “prank”

+1 agreed. He’s so awkward and not even that cute. The date where they pranked his best friend was just weird, and how is that taking advantage of your time with a date and getting to know her?

This season blows, it’s beyond boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I see your point there, fair enough. Certainly didn't mean to suggest "know your place...." I had posted on another deleted thread on cancel culture that this whole thing is just perplexing me for some reason, but that I also understand that it's so much easier to make change from within, and that's what Rachael L. has done, pretty successfully, and that's a good thing,. You're right. Whether she found her husband there is immaterial to whether the show is racist. But I stand by the first issue, which is what I was really posting about. She doesn't get to demand apologies or tell someone what they should do. She can find it racist and awful and everything else, but she doesn't get to demand how someone acts or that they apologize.

I can see that. I will say this, as we talk about grace and people being allowed to be imperfect, I believe that Rachel L should be held to the same standard applied to the others in Bachelor Nation like Hannah and Kaitlyn Bristowe, Nick V, Pilot Pete, Ben Higgins etc. They are allowed to have missteps and not say everything right and still return to former glory. There have been two really good podcasts IMO, that have talked about different perspectives in how people react and this pressure to comment right away or disavow etc. Clickbait with Tayshia and their reaction to the CH interview https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-discussion-about-racism-within-bachelor-nation/id1532110113?i=1000508797340 and the Higher Learning podcast talking about Nick Cannon’s return.

[Anonymous]

Matt is just not cute. With some of his outfits, I wonder his sexuality.

[Anonymous]

This Chris Harrison scandal is a publicity stunt to get some attention to a failed season.