Multi-generation Princeton double-legacy. DC doesn't want to go there...help

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Your child is not rebelling. He is making his own way.

There is something very wrong with all of you.

Mom & dad I'm making my own way!
...now don't forget to send in that $70,000 check every year for the next 4. Or maybe 5 years.

I also love how you used 'kid' ... exactly. naive teens make ridiculous decisions. I would have ended up at the craphole public U my loser high school boyfriend was at if my parents would have given me free reign!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP have you not been taking your son to reunions? Have him tour a week on prospect street. Seriously, that will set most kids straight -- not having to eat in a dining hall or cook as an upper classman but eating in a friggin mansion and then partying hard right after.

Of course we have, ever since he was a baby. He actually likes the school and personality-wise he would fit in very well. His resistance comes from the fact that he is too proud and independent. He wants to strike out on his own. Plus this is probably a pushback on the years of expectation and pressure the family has put on him regarding Princeton. I am proud of him for thinking this way, but the whole situation has created a lot of friction within the family.

As another poster said above, Princeton really is a cult. Most Princeton alumni are insanely loyal and rabid when it comes to their alma mater. Our family admittedly takes it to the extreme. It is hard for non-tigers to understand.

OP, new poster here.

Whether "non-tigers" understand here on this board or not doesn't matter.

What matters is that YOU are there in the thick of this mess, and YOU see your son being treated badly (by adults who should have his interests at heart!) for being a thinking, independent human being and yet...you come back and seem to be waffling about where you are in all this. You say you're "proud of him for thinking this way." Yet you characterize his resistance as "rebellion" earlier on, and "pushback" above--and you then claim he would "fit in very well." You want him to want to fit in, but what you really want most is for the arguing to stop.

OP, can you see how maybe you're harboring a feeling that it would end if he would just come around and try, and fit in, and do what he is told?

Please have his back. You don't, not the way you're writing about this so far; yes, you're frustrated with DH and FIL but you also don't truly seem to be saying clearly and firmly to them, or anyone, "Leave him alone, drop this topic, and if you persist I will back him and not you." That is what needs to happen--IF you want your son not to resent the hell out of you, dad, and everyone else who is shoving Princeton down his throat and telling him "if you only try, you'll fit in!"

Even if his one and only reason for not going there is that everyone else in the family did go -- that is enough reason, to be blunt. If the adults pull any dramatic ultimatums like saying they won't fund college unless he goes to Princeton (assuming he gets in, which isn't a given), he would be well within his rights to see all of you as manipulative and self-centered. He is the one going to college, the one attending classes and doing the actual work, the one spending four years of his life in a place; he needs to be the one choosing it. But you, mom, don't back him up.

Your focus is on this, from your first post: "My husband and father in-law are furious, every day is a battle between them and DC." You want the battles to end, but it would be better for him if you engage and take a stand that there are many colleges, and your son gets to pick as he is the one who must do the work once he's there. Unless Princeton were the only place in the country that did his particular major, there is no reason he must go there other than expectations that were formed before he was even born. You're scared of your DH and FIL and others in the family and won't just step up. He has no one in his corner, despite how you talk about it here.

You and dad and FIL are setting yourselves up for son to spend the rest of his life remembering the many months when everyone treated him like a child who couldn't make one of the biggest choices of his life his own way. Of course parents have huge input into college decisions. But he's getting no input of his own. Is this what you and DH want him to think about for four years while he's somewhere he told you clearly he did not want to be?

Consider hiring a private college consultant and saying that the adults will let that consultant help guide the process, and will give son and the consultant the final say --with son's being the deciding vote. Sell the idea to your DH and FIL as a way to end the hostility by having a neutral third party involved. Tell son that he can talk with the consultant all he wants about other options and should absolutely look into other colleges so he can decide for or against Princeton based on a lot of research about other possible colleges. That might be one way to reduce friction if everyone sees a third party professional is there as a buffer. But this would only help if DH and FIL can get their antique "do what I did" notions and tempers in check, and can see son as an individual and not an extension of themselves.

I went to college with a guy who was like your son in that his parents told him he had only one choice of college, period. He was also told what his major would be. He desperately wanted to be at another university altogether but hadn't been able to convince his family; they told him, once he was accepted at our university, that he had to go there or they would not pay for college at all. He was miserable academically, socially, in every way possible. He was a nice guy, did his work well, and did try to "fit in," find some friends and make the best of the hand his parents dealt him. He knew that our college's name on his diploma was an objectively good thing to have. But he also said he would never forget how his parents treated him about college, and would never forgive them for not giving his wishes (and, he felt, his needs) the deciding vote. After all, he was the one spending four years in a place not of his choosing.

OP here. I really appreciate your taking the time to write all of this. You are right. I know that I should step up and defend him against the whole family, and I haven't done so yet. You would agree that this is easier said than done if you knew the family, but I agree it has to be done. I just have to get ready to take all the heat that will be coming my way if I put my foot down on this subject.

I am not going to lie, I also wish Princeton were his dream school and that he wanted to carry on the family tradition. On the other hand, I also respect his desires and I actually admire that he wants to be his own person. At the end of the day, I am happy if he is happy and would support him regardless. And no, we would never pull any crazy ultimatums, we are not (completely) insane.

On a more practical level, however, I know that Princeton is his best chance at one of the top ivies. Sure, he has top grades, already top SAT scores and great ECs but so do many other kids applying to HYS and even other ivies. DH attended HYS for grad school (don't want to get more specific for privacy reasons). That doesn't really count as legacy though and we don't have the kind of ties with that school than we have with Princeton. So the advantage there would be minimal, if any at all. He is not a prodigy or anything like that so there is no way he can truly differentiate himself from the many other qualified kids who are applying to the other top schools. He is definitely qualified to get in, but he faces the same long odds as most others.
At Princeton however he has a giant leg up because of his family. I get that he is trying to escape that, but from a practical standpoint it seems like a missed opportunity if he doesn't take advantage of it by at least applying. People here keep saying that getting in isn't a given, but we essentially have never had a family member rejected from Princeton in recent history. Even those with admittedly unexceptional academic profiles. This is why I say it is practically a guarantee. I know it sounds hubristic and there is no point in trying to convince people here otherwise, but he is practically a shoo-in if he applies. Of course we never explicitly tell him that, we emphasize that it is something that still needs to be earned though hard work at school.

The other practical consideration is that we know Princeton inside and out. We can guide him on how to navigate the campus resources, what classes to look for, what professors to seek out, how to navigate social life, campus organizations etc. We don't have this level of insight into any other school. We definitely would not dictate to him what to major in, or what (if any) eating club to join and in general micromanage him while he is there. We just think he probably would have a very good chance of thriving there given all the inside knowledge we have and the fact that he is so familiar with the school.

Anyway I am rambling too much. I am just freaking out a bit. I just want to maintain our family peace and I also want him to get into a good college and reach his potential.

[Anonymous]

Obviously, this is a huge boon that he’s choosing not to take advantage of, but it’s his choice not to. I’d be supportive as long as he’s otherwise making good decisions.

[Anonymous]

If he applies ED to one of the other “top” Ivies and includes the family tree in the application, that top Ivy might be inclined to “steal” one of Princeton’s “families”. So, he may have a “hook” that way.

[Anonymous]

It sounds, op, like both your son and you know - or at least strongly believe - that he will otherwise get into Harvard, Stanford, or Yale, and that one of those three universities (and I would wager it is one of those three universities) is in fact his first choice.

I would have had more respect for your son, and your support of him, if he was forfeiting the prestige of the family legacy at Princeton in order to attend say Michigan. But it appears that he is willing to forfeit the prestige of the family legacy at Princeton to attend an even MORE prestigious university. That is too bad.

Here is where I understand your family's dilemma. In order for Princeton to continue admitting even those family members who are not otherwise qualified, except for the legacy status, it helps to demonstrate to Princeton that you indeed love it so much that your very best and brightest will of course attend Princeton as well. Your extended family rightly does not want to convey to Princeton that it is merely the family's safety school for less qualified family members, but that otherwise qualified family members would actually prefer to attend Harvard, Stanford, or Yale.

[Anonymous]

How is this a daily fight when he's only a junior and he won't be applying until next year? What kind of hounding are your dh and the boy's grandfather doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds, op, like both your son and you know - or at least strongly believe - that he will otherwise get into Harvard, Stanford, or Yale

OP just said the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is a real first-world problem but here we go. Our family has a multi-generation tradition at Princeton. By multi-generation I mean starting with my husbands great-great-grandfather in the 19th century. On my side, my father, grandfather and myself attended.

Our child is rebelling and says he does not want to apply there at all. He is a junior currently. If he applies, his profile plus our legacy status practically guarantees him admission. We have had many extended family members with less impressive profiles get in because of our legacy status, so I am pretty sure DC would get in.

My husband and father in-law are furious, every day is a battle between them and DC. I think my kid just wants to strike out on his own and not follow the family tradition. However I also wish he would keep up the tradition and practically speaking this is his best chance at an elite school. I wish I could find a way to persuade him to consider at least applying or at the very least find a way to diffuse the situation. It is getting toxic.

Fixed it for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds, op, like both your son and you know - or at least strongly believe - that he will otherwise get into Harvard, Stanford, or Yale

OP just said the opposite.

Read between the lines. Actually, let me break it down for you.

If op's son is admitted to Harvard, Stanford, and/or Yale, then he would prefer to attend one of those universities over Princeton as a legacy.

However, if op's son is not admitted to Harvard, Stanford, and/or Yale, then he would prefer to attend Princeton as a legacy than any lesser university.

Clearly op and her son do believe that he will be admitted to Harvard, Stanford, and/or Yale, otherwise they would not gamble with a particularly historied legacy of admission to Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The other practical consideration is that we know Princeton inside and out. We can guide him on how to navigate the campus resources, what classes to look for, what professors to seek out, how to navigate social life, campus organizations etc. We don't have this level of insight into any other school.

That, right there, is an argument for his NOT attending Princeton.

I don't know why you love Princeton so much if the alums can't look out for their kids' best interests, which in this case include letting your kid find his own way. And if your ILs are this hard to deal with, I guess marrying someone who isn't a self-absorbed dick from a family of self-absorbed dicks.

Susan Patton says hey.

[Anonymous]

Support your son here, you know he will be fine no matter what college he goes to

[Anonymous]

It seems like my deal would be
1. Apply to Princeton and anywhere else that you want but go wherever you want.
2. Not discuss college at all for the next 4-5 months.

If he finds a better school (for him) that he gets into then you will need to let him go. But if you are right and Princeton is his ticket, you should let the schools tell him that. He sounds smart and disciplined. If your family stops making this into melodrama I suspect he will choose the right path.

OP, I went to Princeton. I hated it so much I transferred to another, equally prestigious school (and perhaps more so in my chosen major). Two of my three freshman roommates also hated it and spent 4 miserable years. They told me they wished they'd had the guts to transfer. There really are better schools for some people and no school is the end all be all. But this isn't about Princeton in particular -- at my new school I was thrilled but saw people who also would have been happier elsewhere, but who went because it was the most prestigious school they got into.

If your son is this adamant he may just be contrary, but he is probably also be telling you he may need a different path. Give him a chance to do it reasonably.

[Anonymous]

Where does he want to go?

[Anonymous]

.....we essentially have never had a family member rejected from Princeton in recent history. Even those with admittedly unexceptional academic profiles.

.....

Anyway I am rambling too much. I am just freaking out a bit. I just want to maintain our family peace and I also want him to get into a good college and reach his potential.

I would argue that he is LESS likely to achieve his potential if he knows he got into Princeton on legacy status like Cousin Jokel over there who had mediocre grades. You are telling him he is not worth anything on his own, because his family will buy his way in. I can't think of a less motivating message to send a child on his way to manhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will serve him right not to apply OP and end up somewhere sub-par. You are really exaggerating to think he is a "shoe in" for Princeton. It is #1 on USNWR. I think you'd be surprised how many legacies don't get in.

He might end up at UMBC ...

Can you even imagine what they'll be saying about that at the club?

What is this from?

Trading Places! (And no, I'm not the one who posted it.)