What is a Tiger Mom? If you are one how are you different from everyone else?

[Anonymous]

^^^to clarify -- there are many, many, many cultures in Asia. What there isn't, is an "Asian culture".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't stand this thread. There is so much racism going on. If a white parent has a child that excels, it is attributed to the innate superiority of the child plus good, supportive parents. If the parent is Asian, the success is attributed to an extreme Tiger Mom and a robotic child that will just be a dull follower with no creative or leadership abilities. All Asian moms are not the "tiger moms" depicted in the book and all successful asian kids are not products of tiger moms. Get your prejudices in check people!

Amen! My thoughts exactly. This thread reeks of prejudice against Asians.

+1000 Perpetuating the stereotype that smart Asians will just turn out to be quiet followers. I don't know about you, but that's not how it is in my work world. The tide will turn in a couple of generations. Racists, look inward and you'll find jeolousy eating away at your soul.

Thanks to those who are concerned about the tinges of racism that surface in some posts. As an Asian, I assure you that most of these comments about the traits of Asian children don't bother us a bit - it is like water off a duck's back. We are fine with our methods of parenting and we know how it impacts our children. I really believe the plethora of threads about tiger parenting on this and other forums is more than likely indicative of an element of insecurity by those who utilize more conventional approaches. I say this because I cannot think of another explanation of why tiger parenting repeatedly comes up with the attendant suggestions of Asian children lacking creativity, initiative, leadership abilities, etc.

Tiger parenting is a lot of work for the parents and we imbue in our children an expectation of achievement and excellence. They don't need to excel in all subjects but we do make a point of motivating them to achieve their full potential. If that entails "pushing" them to do so, we have no hesitation in doing so. Yes, we limit TV and playing video games, give more focus to academics as opposed to sports, we emphasize respect to those older than them, etc.

No regrets or apologies from this parent ...... and no suggestion that other approaches to parenting are inferior and certainly no suggestion that others should adopt our approach.

I'm Asian, and let's not lie, especially on an anonymous forum. Plenty of Asian parents do regard Western parenting styles as "inferior". That is why so many of them don't want their kids playing with Western minded kids. The parents feel the Americanized kids way of life (ie, the way the kids are due to the parenting styles) will rub off on their Asian kids. Maybe you could say it's cultural, but culture does somewhat equate to parenting style.

I am the PP you responded to and I could not disagree with you more. I have never been in a setting where Asian parents described American parenting as "inferior" or even wanting. I have heard discussions where they comment on American parents giving added emphasis to some things that Asian parents view as less important - for example, participation in sports.

As far as playing and being socially involved with what you refer to as "Western minded" kids, again, the focus has been more on "like-minded" kids irrespective of their racial backgrounds - ie kids who are focused on their studies, who want to excel academically, don't view their social life as taking precedence over academics, etc. To give you an example, my son went to TJ and through most of his years there, his friends were four other kids - all white - but who were similar to him in terms of motivation, etc. Three of the five went on to complete medical school, one of them became a lawyer and one is working towards her PhD.

He had limited interaction with Asian kids and we never sought to encourage him to associate with Asian kids at TJ or discourage him from being friends with the group he moved with. We were certainly pleased that he had friends and that they were as motivated - if not more so - than he was. He still keeps in touch with them and they meet from time to time.

[Anonymous]

We live in the Longfellow/McLean pyramid. In the media, I see an association of tiger parenting with Asians (Chinese especially). However, in school, the tiger parents come from all ethnic/racial backgrounds. I see it as more of an SES thing. The uber educated uber competitive class's method of parenting - some more intense than others of course.

[Anonymous]

This thread is a real eye opener, to say the least.

It is all about materialism, the worship of man instead of God. If one takes the spiritual out of the competition for excellence, there is much "energy" left over for the pursuit of intellectual superiority on the material plane.

(I recognize this comment is more suitable to the Religion or Politics Forums.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc.

i'm much more Asian than you - born and raised and educated and worked there till late 20s, and i am everything you said, respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house, and then some - but my kids are ill behaved and have terrible manners and act out and bad listeners in or outside the house. they're the opposite of me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc.

i'm much more Asian than you - born and raised and educated and worked there till late 20s, and i am everything you said, respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house, and then some - but my kids are ill behaved and have terrible manners and act out and bad listeners in or outside the house. they're the opposite of me.

Trust me, then I would make sure that my kids have minimal exposure to your kids. Race does not matter but shared core values does.

- Asian mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc.

i'm much more Asian than you - born and raised and educated and worked there till late 20s, and i am everything you said, respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house, and then some - but my kids are ill behaved and have terrible manners and act out and bad listeners in or outside the house. they're the opposite of me.

Trust me, then I would make sure that my kids have minimal exposure to your kids. Race does not matter but shared core values does.

- Asian mom.

Totally agree!

Unless there is some medical issue, a child who acts out the way PP described is doing so because the child is allowed to get away with it usually because of mixed messages such as one parent who is strict and another one who makes allowances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc. They are also people who believe in equal reciprocity which means that they will do their share or more when it comes to carpooling, bringing snacks, hosting playdates etc. Asian parents are also open to hearing criticism of their children. If you tell an Asian parent that you saw their child smoking, misbehaving etc,. they will thank you and not bite off your head. Most white parents will get belligerent when you tell them somethings about their child. Asian parents are very embarrassed when a teacher will draw their attention to their child's bad behaviour, and they will discipline their child appropriately. I see white parents actually getting angry and blaming the teacher when the teacher says something negative.

You make it sound like there is such a thing as Asian culture. There isn't, and it is absurd to say there is.

There are many different ethnic groups in Asia and many countries, many languages and many religions as well. So there are obvious cultural differences. However, in US we are all lumped under the "Asian" category. And in many ways there are certain core values that all well-bred Asians follow and share - across nationality, language and ethnicity. Respect for elders, high regard for teachers, valuing education, hospitality - are among those values.

When we have a discussion like this in DCUM - we are referred to tiger moms by many in the US - just because we are Asian and our kids are high achieving.

If most DCUM posters who have an axe to grind against Tiger parenting are capable of only understanding generalizations and over simplifications in an argument, using "Asian Culture" is entirely appropriate construct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc. They are also people who believe in equal reciprocity which means that they will do their share or more when it comes to carpooling, bringing snacks, hosting playdates etc. Asian parents are also open to hearing criticism of their children. If you tell an Asian parent that you saw their child smoking, misbehaving etc,. they will thank you and not bite off your head. Most white parents will get belligerent when you tell them somethings about their child. Asian parents are very embarrassed when a teacher will draw their attention to their child's bad behaviour, and they will discipline their child appropriately. I see white parents actually getting angry and blaming the teacher when the teacher says something negative.

You make it sound like there is such a thing as Asian culture. There isn't, and it is absurd to say there is.

There are many different ethnic groups in Asia and many countries, many languages and many religions as well. So there are obvious cultural differences. However, in US we are all lumped under the "Asian" category. And in many ways there are certain core values that all well-bred Asians follow and share - across nationality, language and ethnicity. Respect for elders, high regard for teachers, valuing education, hospitality - are among those values.

When we have a discussion like this in DCUM - we are referred to tiger moms by many in the US - just because we are Asian and our kids are high achieving.

If most DCUM posters who have an axe to grind against Tiger parenting are capable of only understanding generalizations and over simplifications in an argument, using "Asian Culture" is entirely appropriate construct.

So, Tajiks, Mongolians, Sri Lankans, Filipinos, Afghans, Turkmens, Thais, Syrians, Uzbeks, Maldivians, Nepalese, Japanese, Koreans -- everybody shares certain core values. 4.3 billion people (or at least the well-bred ones). How about that.

[Anonymous]

I think in the context of this discussion it is completely appropriate to speak of "Asian values" as a shorthand for certain values shared by the majority of parents who come from one of the more populous Asian immigrant populations in this area, such as Chinese or Indian. Similar values are also shared by most Russian-Jewish parents. I have a friend who calls herself "honorary Chinese parent", since her DD is the only non-Chinese student in many of her enrichment classes. On the other hand, I'm friendly with a couple of Chinese women at work and together we coined the term "panda parents" for Chinese parents who "opt out of the race." As a Russian-Jewish parent who chose to opt out of language school, rigorous music lessons, etc and doesn't sweat every "B", I find that the "panda parents" and I still share some of the beliefs common in our cultures. One of them being that "advanced/GT math" is really "normal math" which most kids should be able to do barring serious learning disabilities. All it takes is a good teacher, and since American elementary school teachers are notoriously bad, not so much at teaching math concepts, but at communicating a love for math and an understanding of it as a system rather than a collection of "topics", we all spend an hour or two a week doing "extra math" with our kids in one form or another. Then we tell them to go play and let panda mom enjoy some cuddle time with panda dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc. They are also people who believe in equal reciprocity which means that they will do their share or more when it comes to carpooling, bringing snacks, hosting playdates etc. Asian parents are also open to hearing criticism of their children. If you tell an Asian parent that you saw their child smoking, misbehaving etc,. they will thank you and not bite off your head. Most white parents will get belligerent when you tell them somethings about their child. Asian parents are very embarrassed when a teacher will draw their attention to their child's bad behaviour, and they will discipline their child appropriately. I see white parents actually getting angry and blaming the teacher when the teacher says something negative.

You make it sound like there is such a thing as Asian culture. There isn't, and it is absurd to say there is.

There are many different ethnic groups in Asia and many countries, many languages and many religions as well. So there are obvious cultural differences. However, in US we are all lumped under the "Asian" category. And in many ways there are certain core values that all well-bred Asians follow and share - across nationality, language and ethnicity. Respect for elders, high regard for teachers, valuing education, hospitality - are among those values.

When we have a discussion like this in DCUM - we are referred to tiger moms by many in the US - just because we are Asian and our kids are high achieving.

If most DCUM posters who have an axe to grind against Tiger parenting are capable of only understanding generalizations and over simplifications in an argument, using "Asian Culture" is entirely appropriate construct.

So, Tajiks, Mongolians, Sri Lankans, Filipinos, Afghans, Turkmens, Thais, Syrians, Uzbeks, Maldivians, Nepalese, Japanese, Koreans -- everybody shares certain core values. 4.3 billion people (or at least the well-bred ones). How about that.

Indeed, we do! At least the well-bred ones, because ill-bred people are also in the world, as we all know.

Now, do Russians, Africans, Jews, Europeans, Americans etc. - also share these core values? Well, those that do, are included in my circle of friends, and their similarly raised kids are valued playmates of my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think in the context of this discussion it is completely appropriate to speak of "Asian values" as a shorthand for certain values shared by the majority of parents who come from one of the more populous Asian immigrant populations in this area, such as Chinese or Indian. Similar values are also shared by most Russian-Jewish parents. I have a friend who calls herself "honorary Chinese parent", since her DD is the only non-Chinese student in many of her enrichment classes. On the other hand, I'm friendly with a couple of Chinese women at work and together we coined the term "panda parents" for Chinese parents who "opt out of the race." As a Russian-Jewish parent who chose to opt out of language school, rigorous music lessons, etc and doesn't sweat every "B", I find that the "panda parents" and I still share some of the beliefs common in our cultures. One of them being that "advanced/GT math" is really "normal math" which most kids should be able to do barring serious learning disabilities. All it takes is a good teacher, and since American elementary school teachers are notoriously bad, not so much at teaching math concepts, but at communicating a love for math and an understanding of it as a system rather than a collection of "topics", we all spend an hour or two a week doing "extra math" with our kids in one form or another. Then we tell them to go play and let panda mom enjoy some cuddle time with panda dad.

I agree with you on the advanced/GT math. It is indeed "normal math" that any average kid can master. Actually, that is true for most of the curriculum - even in magnet ES, MS and HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians are culturally raised to do certain things like be respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house etc.

i'm much more Asian than you - born and raised and educated and worked there till late 20s, and i am everything you said, respectful of elders, behave with restraint in social situations, listen to their parents when they are outside the house, and then some - but my kids are ill behaved and have terrible manners and act out and bad listeners in or outside the house. they're the opposite of me.

PP, you should turn in your Asian card. What kind of Asian parent are you? You bring shame to all of us Asian parents... tee hee.

In seriousness, do you think this is because your kids have been exposed to the Western influence, or you just don't parent the way your parents did?

[Anonymous]

I'm Asian, and let's not lie, especially on an anonymous forum. Plenty of Asian parents do regard Western parenting styles as "inferior". That is why so many of them don't want their kids playing with Western minded kids. The parents feel the Americanized kids way of life (ie, the way the kids are due to the parenting styles) will rub off on their Asian kids. Maybe you could say it's cultural, but culture does somewhat equate to parenting style.

OP again- Thankfully it's largely cultural from what I've seen as my family has not felt discriminated at all by the high performing Asian community. I would say that about 70% of my kid's friends are high performing Asian classmates (Indian and Chinese) and their parents are willing to socialize with us/ go out of their way to help us now that they know us and our values. Of course, we also watch our kid's cultural influences too but I think most caring parents regardless of their parenting style care about peer influences. It's just different priorities for different people.

OP - yes, it's because your kids are "high performing" that the Asian community around you are willing to let you into their fold. Are you white? Most Asian people are somewhat racists towards blacks and Hispanics. How old are your kids? Once your kids hit their teen years, if they become sexually active or like to party (even if they bring home good grades), you will find Asian parents less willing to socialize with you or your kids.

And I'm not being racist towards Asian..I'm Asian. This is just what I have observed of Asian parents in general.

I agree, most involved parents, including my DH and I, absolutely care about peer influence. But I find the "tiger moms" definition of good peer influences to be much more restrictive. For example, I don't care if my kids have friends that don't do well in school, as long as they are good (kind and compassionate). But the "tiger mom" would never want their kids to socialize with low performing kids for fear their kids might not value education, too.

As our kids get older, we have less influence on who their friends are. All we can do at this point is instill in them good values and hope some of it has been ingrained into them.

I also find "tiger parents", regardless of race, care way too much about status/prestige/wealth, and for the most part, they want their kids to have status positions (that mostly include high pay). They would be ok with their kid being a professor, but probably not a K teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm Asian, and let's not lie, especially on an anonymous forum. Plenty of Asian parents do regard Western parenting styles as "inferior". That is why so many of them don't want their kids playing with Western minded kids. The parents feel the Americanized kids way of life (ie, the way the kids are due to the parenting styles) will rub off on their Asian kids. Maybe you could say it's cultural, but culture does somewhat equate to parenting style.

OP again- Thankfully it's largely cultural from what I've seen as my family has not felt discriminated at all by the high performing Asian community. I would say that about 70% of my kid's friends are high performing Asian classmates (Indian and Chinese) and their parents are willing to socialize with us/ go out of their way to help us now that they know us and our values. Of course, we also watch our kid's cultural influences too but I think most caring parents regardless of their parenting style care about peer influences. It's just different priorities for different people.

OP - yes, it's because your kids are "high performing" that the Asian community around you are willing to let you into their fold. Are you white? Most Asian people are somewhat racists towards blacks and Hispanics. How old are your kids? Once your kids hit their teen years, if they become sexually active or like to party (even if they bring home good grades), you will find Asian parents less willing to socialize with you or your kids.

And I'm not being racist towards Asian..I'm Asian. This is just what I have observed of Asian parents in general.

I agree, most involved parents, including my DH and I, absolutely care about peer influence. But I find the "tiger moms" definition of good peer influences to be much more restrictive. For example, I don't care if my kids have friends that don't do well in school, as long as they are good (kind and compassionate). But the "tiger mom" would never want their kids to socialize with low performing kids for fear their kids might not value education, too.

As our kids get older, we have less influence on who their friends are. All we can do at this point is instill in them good values and hope some of it has been ingrained into them.

I also find "tiger parents", regardless of race, care way too much about status/prestige/wealth, and for the most part, they want their kids to have status positions (that mostly include high pay). They would be ok with their kid being a professor, but probably not a K teacher.

PP here.. Sorry, don't know what happened to the quotes. I fixed it. Much easier to see where my post starts now.