What is a Tiger Mom? If you are one how are you different from everyone else?

[Anonymous]

My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Something more than lack of tiger parenting is afoot if you have to encourage your grandson to go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something more than lack of tiger parenting is afoot if you have to encourage your grandson to go to college.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

Inevitable. As the blending continues they will also become part of the C performers who will be viewed as achievers. And the sub par performance will be blamed on the teachers and schools and lack of funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

Inevitable. As the blending continues they will also become part of the C performers who will be viewed as achievers. And the sub par performance will be blamed on the teachers and schools and lack of funding.

No. The subpar performance will be blamed on the white parent, aren't you following MIL's reasoning?

I really think there is racism on both sides. People can be racist against whites, too. "Oh you have this or that in your house..." We know a Tiger Mom who is very frustrated with her child with issues. Big issues, behaviorally, academically and yes, socially. The Tiger Mom approach simply is not working. The dad is white. It sounds very similar to what MIL PP described. The child's issues are escalating, and the Tiger Mom is truly puzzled. I wanted so badly to tell her to lay off. You can't push ALL kids in one direction. It doesn't work that way. Didn't you escape a communist country for that very reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

I think as parents, it is definitely heart breaking to watch your kid waste potential. But there is only so much you can do. If you push too hard, there is a chance they will push back and rebel. There are those parents whose kids have gone off the deep due to too much pressure, and they end up regretting pushing so hard. And then there are parents, like your daughter, who lament not pushing hard enough.

Some kids don't respond well to too much pressure or structure. You have to know your child and find a good balance.

There's nothing wrong with letting a kid go to community college for a year, or just work FT (if one can find one w/o a degree), and then go off to a 4yr college. Some people need time to grow up or de-stress. Of course, the chance of that kid getting into the almighty Ivy may be reduced, so that is why some parents don't want the kid to take time off.

Life is only a rat race if you choose to make it so.

[Anonymous]

OP here- I'm convinced that there are few reasons that Chua's book was so controversial. The most important one though is that fundamentally it's really hard to be a tough parent in today's society. Second of course is that she used satire but unfortunately most of it was lost by the media. Third she stereotyped a "tiger" mom as a traditional Chinese mom. In all three cases, she pushed buttons for a lot of people.

I'm going to stick with the first point as I think that's the most important one for this discussion and I believe it's the reason her book continues to have traction. It's so much easier (short term) to say well if my child wants to do X, well I'm an enlightened parent so I'm going to let my child do X even if X has negative consequences because my kids will "learn" through their mistakes. This may have worked 200 years ago in America when the "mistakes" had more immediate consequences. For example, if you didn't get water from the well- well you went thirsty.

If a child grows up in an upper middle class household and the parents let the child make important decisions or even worse make excuses for their kids actions well the consequences aren't going to necessarily be felt for a while. In this case, the child still lives in the same upper middle class house with the same comforts regardless of their academic performance. It's when this same "adult" child is 22 years old still living at home and can't hold a job because he or she doesn't enough self discipline that maybe the parents start to wake up. We have these types in my family.

My take away from the book is that there is a fine line between being tough/forcing your kid to do things because your child doesn't have appropriate life experiences to make good decisions and making your child unhappy by being overly controlling as a parent particularly as your child gets older. In Amy's case, she realized that the value of forcing her older daughter continue to play violin was not worth the cost.

Most of us aren't as extreme in Chua in terms of our parenting demands, but most of us aren't willing to work as hard/ have the same level as self-discipline either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

Inevitable. As the blending continues they will also become part of the C performers who will be viewed as achievers. And the sub par performance will be blamed on the teachers and schools and lack of funding.

Agreed; they will become part of the great unwashed. Hopefully, the next batch of immigrants will bring the drive, the wish to succeed, the thirst for knowledge, the hard work, etc. They will be faulted by those who have been here a while, who embrace mediocrity and will blame everyone and everything except themselves for the piss poor job they have done raising their children. But they will not hesitate to fault the parenting methods of others because, after all, we know best how to raise children!

Rinse and repeat ............

[Anonymous]

I think that many of the anti-Tiger mom posters are overlooking some of the negatives of focusing on social achievements over academic achievements. The "less well rounded" kids that are focused on academics are the nicer kids not the mean kids, the bullied kids, or the following the queen bee to avoid not being popular kids. They stay out of all this. My 11 year old has a very diverse set of friends. Her Asian friends are wonderful and very low drama. Many of the other ones bring a lot of drama and negative behaviors which we all chalk up to girls being girls or boys being boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- I'm convinced that there are few reasons that Chua's book was so controversial. The most important one though is that fundamentally it's really hard to be a tough parent in today's society. Second of course is that she used satire but unfortunately most of it was lost by the media. Third she stereotyped a "tiger" mom as a traditional Chinese mom. In all three cases, she pushed buttons for a lot of people.

I'm going to stick with the first point as I think that's the most important one for this discussion and I believe it's the reason her book continues to have traction. It's so much easier (short term) to say well if my child wants to do X, well I'm an enlightened parent so I'm going to let my child do X even if X has negative consequences because my kids will "learn" through their mistakes. This may have worked 200 years ago in America when the "mistakes" had more immediate consequences. For example, if you didn't get water from the well- well you went thirsty.

If a child grows up in an upper middle class household and the parents let the child make important decisions or even worse make excuses for their kids actions well the consequences aren't going to necessarily be felt for a while. In this case, the child still lives in the same upper middle class house with the same comforts regardless of their academic performance. It's when this same "adult" child is 22 years old still living at home and can't hold a job because he or she doesn't enough self discipline that maybe the parents start to wake up. We have these types in my family.

My take away from the book is that there is a fine line between being tough/forcing your kid to do things because your child doesn't have appropriate life experiences to make good decisions and making your child unhappy by being overly controlling as a parent particularly as your child gets older. In Amy's case, she realized that the value of forcing her older daughter continue to play violin was not worth the cost.

Most of us aren't as extreme in Chua in terms of our parenting demands, but most of us aren't willing to work as hard/ have the same level as self-discipline either.

I'm not sure I buy that Tiger parenting is really just about making sure your child ends up independent and holding a job at 22. I am going to assume that most parents want that and attempt to work toward it, with varying degrees of success. But most parents don't want their children to play world-class piano or violin, or chess, or be several years advanced in math. Show me a Tiger parent that doesn't want that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not sure I buy that Tiger parenting is really just about making sure your child ends up independent and holding a job at 22. I am going to assume that most parents want that and attempt to work toward it, with varying degrees of success. But most parents don't want their children to play world-class piano or violin, or chess, or be several years advanced in math. Show me a Tiger parent that doesn't want that.

Raises my virtual hand!

I don't and have never aimed for my children to play world class piano or violin or chess. I have certainly sought to make sure that my children maximize their potential in terms of their talents and abilities.

Even when it comes to academics one of my sons is exceptionally bright. He was advanced from first grade to third grade at his school and then when he completed fourth grade, the school talked to us about moving him up to sixth grade. We declined because although he was intellectually capable of handling a sixth grade curriculum, he was not emotionally and socially matured enough to do so. So we held him back for his own good. The school respected our decision.

There is so much misinformation about what tiger parenting represents and the reality is that there is not one pat answer. Perhaps I ought to write a book on the variations that exist based on interviews with different Asian parents.

What I focus on is maximizing my children's potential and this involves discipline, encouragement, hard work, being respectful of teachers and elders, directing them at a young age and then later offering clear guidance as the child matures in terms of key decisions in my children's lives. I praise my children when they do well and I don't hesitate to chide them when they could have done better. I don't expect perfection by any stretch of the imagination but I do emphasize the importance of doing the very best they can.

I don't require my children to socialize only with Asian kids but I do make sure - to the extent that I can - that their circle of friends consist of others who are motivated, take their studies seriously are respectful and are well grounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not sure I buy that Tiger parenting is really just about making sure your child ends up independent and holding a job at 22. I am going to assume that most parents want that and attempt to work toward it, with varying degrees of success. But most parents don't want their children to play world-class piano or violin, or chess, or be several years advanced in math. Show me a Tiger parent that doesn't want that.

Raises my virtual hand!

I don't and have never aimed for my children to play world class piano or violin or chess. I have certainly sought to make sure that my children maximize their potential in terms of their talents and abilities.

Even when it comes to academics one of my sons is exceptionally bright. He was advanced from first grade to third grade at his school and then when he completed fourth grade, the school talked to us about moving him up to sixth grade. We declined because although he was intellectually capable of handling a sixth grade curriculum, he was not emotionally and socially matured enough to do so. So we held him back for his own good. The school respected our decision.

There is so much misinformation about what tiger parenting represents and the reality is that there is not one pat answer. Perhaps I ought to write a book on the variations that exist based on interviews with different Asian parents.

What I focus on is maximizing my children's potential and this involves discipline, encouragement, hard work, being respectful of teachers and elders, directing them at a young age and then later offering clear guidance as the child matures in terms of key decisions in my children's lives. I praise my children when they do well and I don't hesitate to chide them when they could have done better. I don't expect perfection by any stretch of the imagination but I do emphasize the importance of doing the very best they can.

I don't require my children to socialize only with Asian kids but I do make sure - to the extent that I can - that their circle of friends consist of others who are motivated, take their studies seriously are respectful and are well grounded.

I'm the person who wrote that bit above, but you sound like someone I would like and with whom I would enjoy having a dialog. The part I am still not comfortable with is the management of the children's key decisions and friends. I come from a family in which our parents did not tell us what classes to select or what friends to choose, and my siblings and I felt the freedom and the responsibility to take on those decisions ourselves. We went on to all take different paths, one as a doctor and one as a librarian and one as a teacher. We never cleared these plans with our parents. And we also never made terrible decisions or hung out with a bad crowd or got mixed up in trouble. I fear that some people who operate under the Tiger Parent umbrella fear that any one false step will lead their kid astray permanently. This may come with the territory of being an immigrant, if in fact they are immigrants. And maybe my attitude comes from privilege, but in our current family structure we have room for our kids to experiment and fail and learn and choose their own way. I was the one who became a librarian, and even though it's not a highly respected or lucrative profession, I still have a great job and home and get by just fine. I feel it is just not up to me to decide what my child's interests or skills or profession will be. But like you, I always encourage them to do their best, be respectful and kind, and think of how their actions affect others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Asian high achieving daughter married a non-Asian American and mainly because of pressure from him they brought up their eldest child in a decidedly different approach from tiger parenting.

It has not worked out, at least, in terms of his academic success though I will acknowledge that he is very popular and liked by his peers. Contrary to the general belief about tiger moms, I have pointedly refused to interfere or offer any advice and left it to them although I am convinced that he is bright and would have done very well with a more structured approach. Sadly, he is even talking about not going to college at all much to the angst of his parents.

My daughter has sought my advice on how to motivate him to go to college and focus more on his studies. I have refrained from offering any advice because quite honestly, I think it is a little late at this point to make a difference though I do encourage him to go to college.

Inevitable. As the blending continues they will also become part of the C performers who will be viewed as achievers. And the sub par performance will be blamed on the teachers and schools and lack of funding.

No. The subpar performance will be blamed on the white parent, aren't you following MIL's reasoning?

I really think there is racism on both sides. People can be racist against whites, too. "Oh you have this or that in your house..." We know a Tiger Mom who is very frustrated with her child with issues. Big issues, behaviorally, academically and yes, socially. The Tiger Mom approach simply is not working. The dad is white. It sounds very similar to what MIL PP described. The child's issues are escalating, and the Tiger Mom is truly puzzled. I wanted so badly to tell her to lay off. You can't push ALL kids in one direction. It doesn't work that way. Didn't you escape a communist country for that very reason?

No one has disproved this. I am surrounded by Tiger Moms, and it is hell because frankly, all Tiger Moms care about is the kid making money. The Tiger Moms I know enjoy assuming the worst about the white kids. Guess what? Tiger Moms came here, no one asked them to come here (except maybe their own parents who wanted more money - you notice how many Asian parents live with their grown children? How is this a good thing to that extent?)

How many white parents care to go to China and tell Chinese parents how to do things? And pretend they are not? And be smug about "their way" being superior? And have the audacity (look it up) to criticize the majority?

I mean really, I have heard Tiger Moms claim to know it all about topics they know nothing about. It's laughable. If you are a top world brain surgeon, and you come here, and try to tell me how to do brain surgery, that's one thing. But that has yet to be the case, with the hundreds of Tiger Moms I know. They are experts in...you guessed it....nothing. LEAST of all, child rearing and applying one theory to all children. This isn't China. Not every child is expected to learn one way. Get over it. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

I do not find anything to recommend on the other side of the aisle as well.

I am seeing a ton of rude, less than mediocre, white kids, indulging in everything that is not age appropriate, but their parents are happy that they are popular and not stressed.

Well, I call BS on that approach as well.

[Anonymous]

PP Do you know how racist you SOUND? Was your point, that yes I'm a racist and I'm going to escalate because that's what I got out of your posting. BTW- I'm not Asian.