Can we have a rational discussion about going Greek?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh.

Bullshit.

DP. It’s weird to dismiss every comment you don’t care for as “bullshit” or “jealousy.” Do you really not understand that people value different things; that while some students actively wish to pledge, others actively don’t; and that even among those who are a part of the Greek system, people have different experiences, both as students and beyond?

Sounds like you value your experience, however long ago it was. That’s great. I’m happy for you. Maybe let that be enough. You can wish other people well in their differing experiences. You can say, “I guess we’re all different, isn’t that interesting.” Then you can either ask questions to learn more about perspectives unlike your own, or you can share more about what you happened to like and appreciate, or you can leave it at that. That’s what a rational discussion would look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that a lot of what is said on this site about Greek life is based on how things were 20+ years ago.
* the majority of kids get bids (well over 90%)
* hazing is mostly gone; you would be shocked at what is actually considered hazing these days
* dues often include meals and housing which is often far less than what you would pay thru the university
* in a world where everyone gets a trophy the process of learning to put your best foot forward and perhaps face rejection is not necessarily bad

I think there are many people in this area who value careers over relationships. They could never see the value in a social club (greek life or country club etc) Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you should keep your opinion to yourself when it involves degrading 18 year old students.

not sure this is all ancient history

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/23/dartmouth-sorority-fraternity-members-charged-student-death

Thank you for posting this. My heart really goes out to this student’s family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh. Bullshit.

Sorry you're not close with your relatives - it can be awesome. I grew up living 15 minutes from a bunch of them. I'm 20 months younger than one and 11 months older than another. As kids we weren't really friends but we'd show up at gymnastics and a cousin would be there taking a makeup class, or I'd be about to go to a bat mitzvah and my mom would tell me we were driving my cousin because she was friends with the kid and invited too. We became closer as adults. We'd visit each other at respective colleges sometimes, we had summer cousin trips, when the first cousin got married another cousin was housesitting and we all went over the day before they got back from their honeymoon and deep-cleaned their house and bought them bagels and OJ. And on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both my kids are in frats for primarily what I would call practical reasons.

Kid 1 is at a city school where you have to live off campus jr and sr year and the frat is much cheaper (and well located) than any other housing option by like 50%.

Kid 2 for fairly similar reasons but mainly that the frat house is equivalent price but so much nicer and with much better food than normal on campus housing.

They like the friends they are making and for one it is a “top” house which hopefully provides strong networking. They are at schools where the parties aren’t really exclusive for anyone or any house…literally anyone at the school can attend (except for their own formals) and do.

This is what my kids are seeking. Lowers the stakes - not an all-or-nothing decision re parties and their social lives.

Are you willing to share the schools? It would help those of with kids who are researching options. Thx.

Any schools where greek life isn't dominat (outside the Big10, SEC, ACC, etc). Also any school where greek life is only 20-30% of students. My kid is at one where they rushed simply for better housing sophomore year. And because all of their friends were going to rush, so they also wouldnt' have roommates for sophomore year if they didn't. They are in one where they knew most of the girls before rushing, because it's the "dance sorority" on campus (where 75%+ of the dancers end up if rushing), so they didn't have to conform, they just ended up where they would end up if they made friends on their own (like they had). My kid has the rush process but has enjoyed the living in the sorority soph year and the activities. But they can also go to any frat party, it's not exclusive at their school, so they didn't have to rush

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh. Bullshit.

Sorry you're not close with your relatives - it can be awesome. I grew up living 15 minutes from a bunch of them. I'm 20 months younger than one and 11 months older than another. As kids we weren't really friends but we'd show up at gymnastics and a cousin would be there taking a makeup class, or I'd be about to go to a bat mitzvah and my mom would tell me we were driving my cousin because she was friends with the kid and invited too. We became closer as adults. We'd visit each other at respective colleges sometimes, we had summer cousin trips, when the first cousin got married another cousin was housesitting and we all went over the day before they got back from their honeymoon and deep-cleaned their house and bought them bagels and OJ. And on and on.

You say "a few" of your cousins were in sororities and none of them has a single close friend from the experience. Say what you want about sororities, but that is super rare and super odd. Either one of these is true: you're wrong and there is at least one of your cousins made one good friend from the experience, or your cousins are all weirdos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh.

Bullshit.

DP. It’s weird to dismiss every comment you don’t care for as “bullshit” or “jealousy.” Do you really not understand that people value different things; that while some students actively wish to pledge, others actively don’t; and that even among those who are a part of the Greek system, people have different experiences, both as students and beyond?

Sounds like you value your experience, however long ago it was. That’s great. I’m happy for you. Maybe let that be enough. You can wish other people well in their differing experiences. You can say, “I guess we’re all different, isn’t that interesting.” Then you can either ask questions to learn more about perspectives unlike your own, or you can share more about what you happened to like and appreciate, or you can leave it at that. That’s what a rational discussion would look like.

I don't hear any of that from the other side on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh.

Bullshit.

DP. It’s weird to dismiss every comment you don’t care for as “bullshit” or “jealousy.” Do you really not understand that people value different things; that while some students actively wish to pledge, others actively don’t; and that even among those who are a part of the Greek system, people have different experiences, both as students and beyond?

Sounds like you value your experience, however long ago it was. That’s great. I’m happy for you. Maybe let that be enough. You can wish other people well in their differing experiences. You can say, “I guess we’re all different, isn’t that interesting.” Then you can either ask questions to learn more about perspectives unlike your own, or you can share more about what you happened to like and appreciate, or you can leave it at that. That’s what a rational discussion would look like.

I don't hear any of that from the other side on this thread.

I do. I see a number of posters who are saying that they see the value — and even some who experienced that value for themselves and say so — even if in the end they don’t wish it for their kids. I also see several who aren’t by nature or history Greek, but who are trying to keep an open mind for their kids. That’s…pretty rational.

[Anonymous]

OK, OP, let’s talk. Why would you want to be part of something that is literally exclusive, literally designed to exclude people and keep people out?

If you go back into the history of sororities, if you read up on it, you’ll know that they deliberately excluded people of color, Catholics, women whose parents were divorced, and on and on. Today’s sororities continue that kind of “Our Kind of People” culture, just in different ways…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh. Bullshit.

Sorry you're not close with your relatives - it can be awesome. I grew up living 15 minutes from a bunch of them. I'm 20 months younger than one and 11 months older than another. As kids we weren't really friends but we'd show up at gymnastics and a cousin would be there taking a makeup class, or I'd be about to go to a bat mitzvah and my mom would tell me we were driving my cousin because she was friends with the kid and invited too. We became closer as adults. We'd visit each other at respective colleges sometimes, we had summer cousin trips, when the first cousin got married another cousin was housesitting and we all went over the day before they got back from their honeymoon and deep-cleaned their house and bought them bagels and OJ. And on and on.

You say "a few" of your cousins were in sororities and none of them has a single close friend from the experience. Say what you want about sororities, but that is super rare and super odd. Either one of these is true: you're wrong and there is at least one of your cousins made one good friend from the experience, or your cousins are all weirdos.

I think probably the issue is they went to schools far from home, but then moved "home" after college. Nobody is more than an hour from where they grew up in our family. So it's easy for them to focus on the friends who live nearby who they've known since childhood. I'm the one who wasn't in a sorority and of all the cousins I'm definitely the weirdest (of the girls).

[Anonymous]

My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, OP, let’s talk. Why would you want to be part of something that is literally exclusive, literally designed to exclude people and keep people out?

If you go back into the history of sororities, if you read up on it, you’ll know that they deliberately excluded people of color, Catholics, women whose parents were divorced, and on and on. Today’s sororities continue that kind of “Our Kind of People” culture, just in different ways…

It's no more exclusive than college itself, or private high school, etc. They ALL did that. So should we not send our kids to college or private high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son had an interesting take on it. He’s had several fraternities reach out to him but he isn’t interested. In his opinion it’s A. Weird to pay for friends B. More about gaining social protection by subjugating your will and moral compass to a group and C Limiting as he enjoys bringing together different groups of people. My daughter had a slightly different but similar opinion that she didn’t want some other group picking and dictating her friends for her. She is shockingly beautiful so the queen bees always zero in on her to get her to join their cliques and she’s always rebuffed them, picked her own friends.

Both kids have a strong protect the weaker person ethos and can’t stand people who reject or pick on people to boost their own popularity. Greek life seems to attract people willing to follow not lead, and prey on the weaker people rather than defend.

Now we've jumped the shark. This is complete and unadulterated bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a few cousins who were in sororities and as far as I can tell it did not benefit their lives in any way past college. It didn't get them jobs, they're not close with any of their "sisters" - none of that. So to my eye, they paid for temporary friends for four years, which seems silly since they're both outgoing and bubbly and friendly and could have made friends without that crutch.

how close are you to your cousins? how much do you REALLY know about who their friends are?

We're very close. I know their friends, they know my friends. To the point that I've hung out with their friends even when a cousin who is the connection can't make it and vice versa. Even if we've never met a specific less-close friend they know the stories about them. "Sera, the one whose mom always takes her on vacations?" Two even taught me their super secret sorority code for something (it was like two decades ago - can't recall exactly what it was for).

Uh huh. Bullshit.

Sorry you're not close with your relatives - it can be awesome. I grew up living 15 minutes from a bunch of them. I'm 20 months younger than one and 11 months older than another. As kids we weren't really friends but we'd show up at gymnastics and a cousin would be there taking a makeup class, or I'd be about to go to a bat mitzvah and my mom would tell me we were driving my cousin because she was friends with the kid and invited too. We became closer as adults. We'd visit each other at respective colleges sometimes, we had summer cousin trips, when the first cousin got married another cousin was housesitting and we all went over the day before they got back from their honeymoon and deep-cleaned their house and bought them bagels and OJ. And on and on.

You say "a few" of your cousins were in sororities and none of them has a single close friend from the experience. Say what you want about sororities, but that is super rare and super odd. Either one of these is true: you're wrong and there is at least one of your cousins made one good friend from the experience, or your cousins are all weirdos.

I think probably the issue is they went to schools far from home, but then moved "home" after college. Nobody is more than an hour from where they grew up in our family. So it's easy for them to focus on the friends who live nearby who they've known since childhood. I'm the one who wasn't in a sorority and of all the cousins I'm definitely the weirdest (of the girls).

Ok, so your weird cousins made no effort to stay connected with any of their college friends. That's sad, but it doesn't say anything for or against sororities. It just says something about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any mention of going Greek on this forum is always a trigger. Why is that? Why do people care so much? I mean, if it's not your thing, great, but why judge so harshly when somebody else does it?

DCUM is unable to have rational conversations about anything.

Why would one think this topic magically would be different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any mention of going Greek on this forum is always a trigger. Why is that? Why do people care so much? I mean, if it's not your thing, great, but why judge so harshly when somebody else does it?

DCUM is unable to have rational conversations about anything.

Why would one think this topic magically would be different?

True. Really, though, it's whenever the topic is something "exclusive." Posters who know they can't qualify always come out swinging.