Do nothing parents and horribly misbehaved kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

Time outs are cruel because they leave kids alone at the point where they probably most need connection. Removing the child from the situation and staying with your child as you explain what they need to do better is ideal. And you need to balance that with giving your child positive attention when they are behaving well so they don't misbehave in order to get attention. Isolation should only be a punishment if you really cannot be with your kid at that moment.

Oh jeez. Cruel? Permitting (and thereby encouraging) bad behavior is verging on cruel. Consequences such as timeouts (isolation for a minute!) are not.

Some kids do better with a carrot. Some do better with a stick. Many kids do better with both. (This includes kids with SN, it just can take longer.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gentle parenting is a nightmare. we were recently at the beach and our friend's child threw sand in the face of two other kids (on purpose - it was 2 consecutive incidents) and the only response was to ask him why he felt like doing that and ask if he was frustrated that he hadn't had his turn with the other child's toy that he wanted - it seems to create a sense in the kid that their feelings are all that matter.

Finding out why they’re doing it helps to figure out how to help them not do it anymore. It’s not just about feelings. It’s about motivation. You can often fix one when you understand the other.

Sure, but then you need to DO something with the information. Why did you throw the sand at larla? Because she had the bucket and you wanted a turn? I see you really wanted that bucket. You can NOT throw sand at anyone, even if you want what they have. The sand can hurt their eyes. Sit with me for 5 minutes so you can think about what you can do next time when you want something. No you can't play for 5 minutes; you hurt larla's eye, we are going to sit and think or talk about ways to make better choices or you'll have to leave the beach. I need to keep everyone here safe.

Add to this the things that the kids CAN do with sand and you've got it. This is what gentle parenting is supposed to be but boy have people bungled it.

Sorry I didn’t write a treatise on the additional steps. What a human failure my entire existence has become.

I'm actually not criticizing you. It's just an important step and I think people should know.

Thank you. I was the previous poster…the one that said ask why they’re doing it. You both expanded on it. In the way was intended with my original comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Genuinely curious—how do you work on these behaviors if you avoid things like public places?

This was my nephew. My SIL was amazing. She put a lot of structure and routine around his day, lots of physical activity, then involvement in sports, then BoyScouts. With age and structure he started getting better emotional control. It took years and so much work, but now at 15 he is doing great. So no, you don’t need to go to restaurants and museums to teach them self regulations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

I have basically done this as a parent. The older one had been egging the younger one on all day (who is basically never violent) and got what was coming to them. I still wanted the younger one to hear it wasn't ok but it served as a natural consequence for the older one's behavior.

No in this story the younger was an (older) infant in a carrier who was doing nothing to anybody. What you're saying is totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Genuinely curious—how do you work on these behaviors if you avoid things like public places?

This was my nephew. My SIL was amazing. She put a lot of structure and routine around his day, lots of physical activity, then involvement in sports, then BoyScouts. With age and structure he started getting better emotional control. It took years and so much work, but now at 15 he is doing great. So no, you don’t need to go to restaurants and museums to teach them self regulations.

But you don’t hide a kid away either just because they might have a meltdown. What if you’re travelling and have to eat out? Want to have some normal fun like a baseball game or a movie? Yes you do have Plan Bs but “never let the kid be in public” is a frankly abusive and non-therepeutic way to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Wow. If your 10 year old is so high needs that you *avoid public places* you need an evaluation.

My 11 year old is on the spectrum and will have meltdowns every so often in public. There’s no way I’m going to make him hide away like a leper just to avoid it. That would be tremendously unfair to him and would not help him learn. Of course we try to stay aware of sensory overload and keep calm - but the key is for him to learn the cues himself to self-regulate.

You are putting him in settings he is not ready for yet and setting him up to feel ashamed after a meltdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

Time outs are cruel because they leave kids alone at the point where they probably most need connection. Removing the child from the situation and staying with your child as you explain what they need to do better is ideal. And you need to balance that with giving your child positive attention when they are behaving well so they don't misbehave in order to get attention. Isolation should only be a punishment if you really cannot be with your kid at that moment.

PP here. Yeah, you're the problem. Sorry, I think this is crazy. You're teaching your kid that if they want some quiet time with mom they should bite someone. You don't give positive attention/connection when a kid just did something BAD. There's no amount of other positive attention when they are behaving well that will weaken that crappy message you're sending.

And to call time outs "cruel" is just absolutely absurd. They don't need "connection" in that moment, they need to LEARN that biting is UNACCEPTABLE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Wow. If your 10 year old is so high needs that you *avoid public places* you need an evaluation.

My 11 year old is on the spectrum and will have meltdowns every so often in public. There’s no way I’m going to make him hide away like a leper just to avoid it. That would be tremendously unfair to him and would not help him learn. Of course we try to stay aware of sensory overload and keep calm - but the key is for him to learn the cues himself to self-regulate.

You are putting him in settings he is not ready for yet and setting him up to feel ashamed after a meltdown.

No, that’s absurd, and not a single one of his therapists would recommend that approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Genuinely curious—how do you work on these behaviors if you avoid things like public places?

This was my nephew. My SIL was amazing. She put a lot of structure and routine around his day, lots of physical activity, then involvement in sports, then BoyScouts. With age and structure he started getting better emotional control. It took years and so much work, but now at 15 he is doing great. So no, you don’t need to go to restaurants and museums to teach them self regulations.

But you don’t hide a kid away either just because they might have a meltdown. What if you’re travelling and have to eat out? Want to have some normal fun like a baseball game or a movie? Yes you do have Plan Bs but “never let the kid be in public” is a frankly abusive and non-therepeutic way to live.

He was not hidden, they did plenty of things he could handle, for the duration he could handle. He knew he was learning a skill and was not ready yet for some things. When you set your kid up for failure, you also set them up for the shame they feel afterwards. And yes, at 10 they feel ashamed. That’s a terrible emotion to experience frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

Time outs are cruel because they leave kids alone at the point where they probably most need connection. Removing the child from the situation and staying with your child as you explain what they need to do better is ideal. And you need to balance that with giving your child positive attention when they are behaving well so they don't misbehave in order to get attention. Isolation should only be a punishment if you really cannot be with your kid at that moment.

PP here. Yeah, you're the problem. Sorry, I think this is crazy. You're teaching your kid that if they want some quiet time with mom they should bite someone. You don't give positive attention/connection when a kid just did something BAD. There's no amount of other positive attention when they are behaving well that will weaken that crappy message you're sending.

And to call time outs "cruel" is just absolutely absurd. They don't need "connection" in that moment, they need to LEARN that biting is UNACCEPTABLE.

I agree. But I will add that time-outs don’t work for all kids. My kid would have to be physically restrained and it just worked him up more. So when we did PCIT-type therapy I said time-outs don’t work, and we came up with a different plan (which worked).

That said, I think it’s possible that if we did time outs from a younger age it may have worked better. But my kid is different in that he was a really calm baby/toddler and didn’t need that much discipline until preschool.

[Anonymous]

I have neighbors who do the free-range passive parenting type nonsense. No corrective behavior, no rules, just whatever the kids want to do when they want. The five year old wanders down the street without shoes on, and the kids all behave and look feral. Interestingly enough, the mother is quick to reprimand other parents children, but not her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Genuinely curious—how do you work on these behaviors if you avoid things like public places?

This was my nephew. My SIL was amazing. She put a lot of structure and routine around his day, lots of physical activity, then involvement in sports, then BoyScouts. With age and structure he started getting better emotional control. It took years and so much work, but now at 15 he is doing great. So no, you don’t need to go to restaurants and museums to teach them self regulations.

But you don’t hide a kid away either just because they might have a meltdown. What if you’re travelling and have to eat out? Want to have some normal fun like a baseball game or a movie? Yes you do have Plan Bs but “never let the kid be in public” is a frankly abusive and non-therepeutic way to live.

He was not hidden, they did plenty of things he could handle, for the duration he could handle. He knew he was learning a skill and was not ready yet for some things. When you set your kid up for failure, you also set them up for the shame they feel afterwards. And yes, at 10 they feel ashamed. That’s a terrible emotion to experience frequently.

I’m not sure why you equate “going to s restaurant” with “setting a kid up for failure.” You’re moving the goalposts too - the original posts were suggesting “never go out in public where there is a possibility of a meltdown.”

At 10 as well, my kid can handle things going poorly from time to time. That’s a key part of building resiliance. It’s OK to fail and we don’t have to set up our lives to avoid it.

To be clear I take steps to prevent melt-downs; I just don’t shape our lives around avoiding them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

Time outs are cruel because they leave kids alone at the point where they probably most need connection. Removing the child from the situation and staying with your child as you explain what they need to do better is ideal. And you need to balance that with giving your child positive attention when they are behaving well so they don't misbehave in order to get attention. Isolation should only be a punishment if you really cannot be with your kid at that moment.

Kids who are having a meltdown or are really upset or angry cannot process anything you're saying to them in the moment. Having them take a time out gives them space to calm down. THEN you talk to them about their behavior, what they should do instead, etc. The purpose of the time out isn't isolation for isolation's sake--it's to give them time and space to regulate their emotions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this, too. I saw a three year old bite her little sister, hard, and get nothing more than a casual "we don't bite." I was shocked.

This new "time outs are cruel" school of thought is a nightmare. Yes, sometimes there are natural consequences that can work, and that's great, but Jesus, if you take a chunk out of your sisters arm, you can go sit by yourself for a hot minute.

Time outs are cruel because they leave kids alone at the point where they probably most need connection. Removing the child from the situation and staying with your child as you explain what they need to do better is ideal. And you need to balance that with giving your child positive attention when they are behaving well so they don't misbehave in order to get attention. Isolation should only be a punishment if you really cannot be with your kid at that moment.

PP here. Yeah, you're the problem. Sorry, I think this is crazy. You're teaching your kid that if they want some quiet time with mom they should bite someone. You don't give positive attention/connection when a kid just did something BAD. There's no amount of other positive attention when they are behaving well that will weaken that crappy message you're sending.

And to call time outs "cruel" is just absolutely absurd. They don't need "connection" in that moment, they need to LEARN that biting is UNACCEPTABLE.

I agree. But I will add that time-outs don’t work for all kids. My kid would have to be physically restrained and it just worked him up more. So when we did PCIT-type therapy I said time-outs don’t work, and we came up with a different plan (which worked).

That said, I think it’s possible that if we did time outs from a younger age it may have worked better. But my kid is different in that he was a really calm baby/toddler and didn’t need that much discipline until preschool.

Here too.

Time outs initiated by us are like gasoline on a fire. As she gets older helping her figure out how to make time alone to cool off is working better. She still really struggles with regulating and knows all the calm down techniques, they rarely work in the moment. But the moments are thankfully further apart now.

If the methods previous posters shared worked for us, we’d use them. We’ve had to find other ways. It can look like we’re doing nothing, but that’s not the case at all.

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Anonymous wrote:I would think they aren't punishing in front of others because they think it will cause a more disruptive meltdown and that would make others uncomfortable.

Yeah, my normally well-behaved kid had a meltdown the other day at a coffee shop patio. I had warned him not to do something, he did it, and the (previously communicated) consequence was that we had to leave. I had to strap him into the stroller and walk out while he was kicking and screaming. I got some dirty looks from people and it was frustrating.

I'm sorry you got dirty looks. My 3 year old started screaming in the pizza restaurant and I immediately took him out. People told me what a great mom I was. That's what they should have said to you. Discipline is hard on parents too, but immediately removing kids is always the best.

Kids have tantrums, I would not discipline a kid having a tantrum their nervous system is in overdrive, discipline is pointless during a tantrum, they need to be comforted. I have a problem with kids who have developed zero emotional regulation due to lax parenting. The 6 year old that punches, bites, screams, cusses out the majority of the time they don’t get what they want. There are a lot of little Napoleons out there.

My high needs baby turned into a high needs 7 year old. We are trying so fing hard to help. Can the peanut gallery. Really. It makes it so much harder to stay calm when kids with regulation issues are being judged by adults that know better. I’m already focusing on my child but I can feel your glares and accusations as I try to safely extricate us from a cafe. Our waitstaff is running the card, take a breath, we’ll be out if there soon and we’ll all be calm and breathing better within 10 mins.

Ours takes 20+ mins to wind down once revved. Getting to a safer less public space isn’t a finger snap. Sometimes we have to jump through a few hoops. Like paying our bill or going to the restroom. None of these things are fun or easy. If it looks like I’m not doing enough it’s because you aren’t the one dealing with it. We minimize visits to busy places and time means carefully but sometimes things happen.

Why does it take 10 minutes to leave? You don’t need to leave permanently. Leave your Dh at the table and you take the kid to the sidewalk.

My kids know when I say “last chance or we’re leaving now” that I mean it. Because my words mean something. One of my kids is special needs too. It’s not an excuse. It just means you as a parent have a harder job.

By seven if your kid struggles out in public you don’t set them up to fail and go to those places. If there are two adults, one leaves with the child and the other pays. Kids often go through spurts where they act up. We stopped eating out for a year and worked with ours. Lots of kids have sn. It’s harder but that’s life.

+2. I have a high needs 10 year old. We are rarely in public places because of course those places stress him out? Why are these parents torturing their kids this way.

Genuinely curious—how do you work on these behaviors if you avoid things like public places?

This was my nephew. My SIL was amazing. She put a lot of structure and routine around his day, lots of physical activity, then involvement in sports, then BoyScouts. With age and structure he started getting better emotional control. It took years and so much work, but now at 15 he is doing great. So no, you don’t need to go to restaurants and museums to teach them self regulations.

But you don’t hide a kid away either just because they might have a meltdown. What if you’re travelling and have to eat out? Want to have some normal fun like a baseball game or a movie? Yes you do have Plan Bs but “never let the kid be in public” is a frankly abusive and non-therepeutic way to live.

He was not hidden, they did plenty of things he could handle, for the duration he could handle. He knew he was learning a skill and was not ready yet for some things. When you set your kid up for failure, you also set them up for the shame they feel afterwards. And yes, at 10 they feel ashamed. That’s a terrible emotion to experience frequently.

I’m not sure why you equate “going to s restaurant” with “setting a kid up for failure.” You’re moving the goalposts too - the original posts were suggesting “never go out in public where there is a possibility of a meltdown.”

At 10 as well, my kid can handle things going poorly from time to time. That’s a key part of building resiliance. It’s OK to fail and we don’t have to set up our lives to avoid it.

To be clear I take steps to prevent melt-downs; I just don’t shape our lives around avoiding them.

Oh and btw - the only time he has really felt shame about a meltdown has been because *I* got upset and chastised him because I felt embarrassed. Things got much better when I stopped caring what other people think as a primary concern and focused on raising my kid. Obv I remove him if he is being disruptive but I don’t scrape and bow about it.