AITA for not wanting DH to give MIL 4K to clear a debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

custody battles for your husband?

Yes, she had two different marriages and two different husbands and fought each multiple times in court over custody of the kids from each marriage (she never got sole but wanted it). She also has just made a slew of poor financial decisions, has racked up lots of credit card/other debt, co-signed private loans for my DH when he was an undergrad (before required financial disclosures and counseling students get now) with high interest rates instead of getting public loans with lower interest rates that he could have gotten, has always leased new cars instead of buying cars, etc. She graduated college and from her masters program debt free. She stayed at home with kids for 20 years in part because she did it want to work. She’s inherited money from her parents and blown through it all. She has refused for decades to go to a financial planner despite everyone suggesting it. She didn’t even start investing in a 401k until her sixties.

As a person who graduated college with nothing but debt and got through it on Pell grants, worked really hard with my husband to crawl out of 100K in student loan debt, built up our savings, delayed child bearing til we could afford it, waited to buy our first house in our late 30s when we could actually afford it, and has worked full time for 20 years and is staring down 30 more years it feels wrong to me to give away nearly 10 percent of our cash savings to his MIL because of her poor decision when I have made so many sacrifices to try and put our family in a good financial position.

I can see why giving her the money would really upset you. I’m not really sure what I’d do in your situation.

[Anonymous]

She is 69 years old!!! Have some mercy! This is dh's mom. She didn't even come to him asking for money. What kind of witch are you???

[Anonymous]

You're NTA. She's not entitled to money just because she's old, after a lifetime of bad decisions. If you give her this, it'll be one thing after another for the rest of your life.

I would tell your DH that you are willing to put $X per month in a trust that she does not have access to, and only on the condition that you get to set up credit monitoring for her (because you need to know about any new debts or debts she hasn't disclosed).

I don't believe for an instant that this babysitting arrangement is going to go well.

[Anonymous]

I vote for doing it. It’s only $4k

[Anonymous]

I would maybe just view it as $4k to not get divorced and keep the peace. Your DH will likely hold it against you forever if not.

I would be concerned though this is just the start. She really needs to have a job for a few years to save some money. She likely only has a few more years of being able to truly work. If you give her the 4k you may be enabling her to not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would maybe just view it as $4k to not get divorced and keep the peace. Your DH will likely hold it against you forever if not.

I would be concerned though this is just the start. She really needs to have a job for a few years to save some money. She likely only has a few more years of being able to truly work. If you give her the 4k you may be enabling her to not work.

I was just coming to say the same thing.

By your own words your MIL is not a terrible person.

She's not begging you for it. And acting entitled
Her crime is not doing what you think she should do.

The 4k is not going to ruin you.

Refusing and getting into nasty fights with your husband will cost you.

So what price are you willing to pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

custody battles for your husband?

Yes, she had two different marriages and two different husbands and fought each multiple times in court over custody of the kids from each marriage (she never got sole but wanted it). She also has just made a slew of poor financial decisions, has racked up lots of credit card/other debt, co-signed private loans for my DH when he was an undergrad (before required financial disclosures and counseling students get now) with high interest rates instead of getting public loans with lower interest rates that he could have gotten, has always leased new cars instead of buying cars, etc. She graduated college and from her masters program debt free. She stayed at home with kids for 20 years in part because she did it want to work. She’s inherited money from her parents and blown through it all. She has refused for decades to go to a financial planner despite everyone suggesting it. She didn’t even start investing in a 401k until her sixties.

As a person who graduated college with nothing but debt and got through it on Pell grants, worked really hard with my husband to crawl out of 100K in student loan debt, built up our savings, delayed child bearing til we could afford it, waited to buy our first house in our late 30s when we could actually afford it, and has worked full time for 20 years and is staring down 30 more years it feels wrong to me to give away nearly 10 percent of our cash savings to his MIL because of her poor decision when I have made so many sacrifices to try and put our family in a good financial position.

Maybe don’t punish her for your mistakes.
100k is a lot of debt for a Pell grant person tbh
Also maybe you shouldn’t have delayed kids but instead married someone more wealthy?
I am playing the devils advocate here, but maybe you have stretched yourself too thin, and are mad that she didn’t?

Op is punishing mil because she thinks she's better than her and would have done everything better had she been in her shoes.
There's also the insecurity of growing up poor and now having a little money. People like op live in deathly fear of poverty again and hold onto everything they got and people like her husband take a different approach

[Anonymous]

Would you be ok with 2000 now and maybe 2000 later?

[Anonymous]

Haven’t read anything beyond the first page. I agree 100% that if you give her the loan, she should be transparent about her finances with you guys.

[Anonymous]

Hell no. I wouldn’t do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would maybe just view it as $4k to not get divorced and keep the peace. Your DH will likely hold it against you forever if not.

I would be concerned though this is just the start. She really needs to have a job for a few years to save some money. She likely only has a few more years of being able to truly work. If you give her the 4k you may be enabling her to not work.

I was just coming to say the same thing.

By your own words your MIL is not a terrible person.

She's not begging you for it. And acting entitled
Her crime is not doing what you think she should do.

The 4k is not going to ruin you.

Refusing and getting into nasty fights with your husband will cost you.

So what price are you willing to pay?

See, I think it's better for OP's marriage in the long run to set some boundaries now. I'm not saying give MIL nothing, but if it's $4K now it'll be $6K next year. If it's either give my mom all our savings or I divorce you, then the marriage isn't worth having.

If OP's DH really will not back down on giving MIL money, then the DH is overdue for some very serious talk about how to downshift their own lifestyle to give more to MIL out of monthly income rather than savings. This family does not have enough saved and cannot afford to bail MIL out of her own bad decisions while also maintaining their current standard of living. DH needs to decide what he's willing to cut. I wouldn't even give her the $4K, I'd ask DH what he's willing to give up and give her exactly that.

And spare me the "she raised him" guilt. Lots of people work while raising children. And one reason for that is to save money and be financially secure. MIL has squandered an inheritance and gotten fired twice, and is unwilling to work *at all* except in a MLM that will likely take advantage of her in the end. There's way more bad choices here than a poor little SAHM who didn't understand the consequence of her SAHM-ing.

[Anonymous]

I’d give my mom or MIL 10% of my savings if I were in your shoes and my husband wanted to do it, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH recently discovered that my MIL has been making interest only payments for 2 years on a HELOC she took out to modestly update her kitchen about 4 years ago (which was badly needed as it was an original kitchen from the 50s). The reason she hasn’t been making full payments is because 2 years ago she was fired from her job (which has happened to her multiple times) so she decided she was done working and was going to retire and take Social Security. She insisted she had enough money to retire if she lived frugally, but I am fairly sure she does not—hence the interest only payments on her loan—which she also took out with a variable interest rate (groan).

She’s a kind person who sacrificed a lot financially to raise my DH but has made a slew of poor financial decisions. I am fairly sure that her only assets for her retirement are less than 50K in cash and around 150K in her 401K which she has not touched yet. She has no long-term care insurance, life insurance, stocks, pension, or anything like that and has avoided going to a financial planner for years despite much encouragement to do so. Her main asset is her house which she will (thankfully) pay off on a few years. She’s 69 and can work
But has said she doesn’t want to work full
Time ever again. So her plan is to do home sales of an MLM she does now (which hardly brings in any money) and eventually for my SIL to pay her for child care (she’s due with a baby very soon).

Last night DH broached the idea with me
Of him and his sister each giving her $4K and then having her (his mom) contribute a large chunk of her cash to clear the debt, and I did not like this idea and we got into a pretty big fight.

I feel like it is irresponsible of her to have retired as an able bodied person who can work and just does not want to because of the stress without ensuring she has enough assets to do so. And I am pissed she has hidden this debt and I don’t want him to give away our hard earned money when we are trying very hard to save money for our own home updates and repairs (we own an older home which we bought knowing it needed some real work) and to pay for child care for our kids, save for their college, etc.

My DH tried to justify this by saying he will eventually inherit her house so it will eventually be his and his sister’s, and I disagreed saying no one knows the future, he or I could die tomorrow, his mom could live to be 100 and need to sell the house to pay for a nursing home or other medical care, etc. He thinks I am being a selfish jerk because my family does not look out for each other financially (I have been financially independent since I got my first job) and making this about me.

I feel like if he wants to do this, then there needs to be some transparency on her end,
Eg she allow my husband to take a full look at her finances and assets so there are no more surprises and he can help her plan, which he thinks is unreasonable. So, AITA?

I have so many questions.

1. What are the exact terms of the loan, how and when does the interest rate vary and is the range limited? I definitely see the benefit to getting rid of, or at least refinancing, this loan ASAP.

2. How much does SIL plan to pay MIL, and will that cover MIL's expenses? Or is it SIL pays for childcare (probably getting a good deal) and DH pays and gets nothing, so basically DH is subsidizing SIL's low-rate childcare? No thanks. Also, I expect this arrangement will fall apart because MIL seems to have no interest in working or being responsible, and childcare is work and responsibility.

3. SIL can go right ahead and ante up, I wouldn't agree to anything without confirming face-to-face with SIL exactly how much she'll put in. Do NOT take your DH's word for this. He's probably really conflict-avoidant and will tell you what you want to hear and spin things more positively.

4. Ultimately you might have to pay this out of love for your DH, but you can attatch a lot of strings. What about if you and your DH see a financial planner, for your own plans, so that he gets an external reality check on how bailing out MIL will harm his other goals. The people saying "it's just $4K" are idiots-- MIL has been irresponsible her entire life, and now $4K is going to solve the problem forever? Come on. It's throwing money into the trash unless you use this leverage to force some real changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH recently discovered that my MIL has been making interest only payments for 2 years on a HELOC she took out to modestly update her kitchen about 4 years ago (which was badly needed as it was an original kitchen from the 50s). The reason she hasn’t been making full payments is because 2 years ago she was fired from her job (which has happened to her multiple times) so she decided she was done working and was going to retire and take Social Security. She insisted she had enough money to retire if she lived frugally, but I am fairly sure she does not—hence the interest only payments on her loan—which she also took out with a variable interest rate (groan).

She’s a kind person who sacrificed a lot financially to raise my DH but has made a slew of poor financial decisions. I am fairly sure that her only assets for her retirement are less than 50K in cash and around 150K in her 401K which she has not touched yet. She has no long-term care insurance, life insurance, stocks, pension, or anything like that and has avoided going to a financial planner for years despite much encouragement to do so. Her main asset is her house which she will (thankfully) pay off on a few years. She’s 69 and can work
But has said she doesn’t want to work full
Time ever again. So her plan is to do home sales of an MLM she does now (which hardly brings in any money) and eventually for my SIL to pay her for child care (she’s due with a baby very soon).

Last night DH broached the idea with me
Of him and his sister each giving her $4K and then having her (his mom) contribute a large chunk of her cash to clear the debt, and I did not like this idea and we got into a pretty big fight.

I feel like it is irresponsible of her to have retired as an able bodied person who can work and just does not want to because of the stress without ensuring she has enough assets to do so. And I am pissed she has hidden this debt and I don’t want him to give away our hard earned money when we are trying very hard to save money for our own home updates and repairs (we own an older home which we bought knowing it needed some real work) and to pay for child care for our kids, save for their college, etc.

My DH tried to justify this by saying he will eventually inherit her house so it will eventually be his and his sister’s, and I disagreed saying no one knows the future, he or I could die tomorrow, his mom could live to be 100 and need to sell the house to pay for a nursing home or other medical care, etc. He thinks I am being a selfish jerk because my family does not look out for each other financially (I have been financially independent since I got my first job) and making this about me.

I feel like if he wants to do this, then there needs to be some transparency on her end,
Eg she allow my husband to take a full look at her finances and assets so there are no more surprises and he can help her plan, which he thinks is unreasonable. So, AITA?

I have so many questions.

1. What are the exact terms of the loan, how and when does the interest rate vary and is the range limited? I definitely see the benefit to getting rid of, or at least refinancing, this loan ASAP.

2. How much does SIL plan to pay MIL, and will that cover MIL's expenses? Or is it SIL pays for childcare (probably getting a good deal) and DH pays and gets nothing, so basically DH is subsidizing SIL's low-rate childcare? No thanks. Also, I expect this arrangement will fall apart because MIL seems to have no interest in working or being responsible, and childcare is work and responsibility.

3. SIL can go right ahead and ante up, I wouldn't agree to anything without confirming face-to-face with SIL exactly how much she'll put in. Do NOT take your DH's word for this. He's probably really conflict-avoidant and will tell you what you want to hear and spin things more positively.

4. Ultimately you might have to pay this out of love for your DH, but you can attatch a lot of strings. What about if you and your DH see a financial planner, for your own plans, so that he gets an external reality check on how bailing out MIL will harm his other goals. The people saying "it's just $4K" are idiots-- MIL has been irresponsible her entire life, and now $4K is going to solve the problem forever? Come on. It's throwing money into the trash unless you use this leverage to force some real changes.

And 5, your DH will not be inheriting anything! Come on! She's going to consume everything she has, and then some, just covering her own expenses. I'm sorry that your DH is a fool. If he's so certain he's going to get the house, why not give him and his sister title in 50% shares, with a life estate to MIL? There's nothing stopping you from doing that now.

[Anonymous]

What a small person you are. I only wish I could do something like that for my in-laws or mother but they are lucky enough to be self sufficient.

If you can’t afford to do it then maybe help her increase the monthly payments. Otherwise give her the money and let her have some peace.

My husband wouldn’t have to discuss giving money to family and neither would I, especially under the $5,000 mark.