AITA for not wanting DH to give MIL 4K to clear a debt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

Most places aren’t eager to hire 69 year olds

Especially not 69-year-olds who have been FIRED from several jobs. Seriously, OP? Who do you think is going to hire her? I don't care how well- connected she is, she "retired" because she knew she wasn't getting another job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a small person you are. I only wish I could do something like that for my in-laws or mother but they are lucky enough to be self sufficient.

If you can’t afford to do it then maybe help her increase the monthly payments. Otherwise give her the money and let her have some peace.

My husband wouldn’t have to discuss giving money to family and neither would I, especially under the $5,000 mark.

Must be nice to be rich.

There will be no peace if you give her the money! She's going to continue to make bad decisions, just like she always has. And now that you've taught her she can get money from you, she'll come back for more and more and more. No peace for her or for you.

All these people saying give money for the sake of your marriage are being short-sighted. You can ruin your marriage very fast by not being a team, not respecting each other, and not having boundaries. If your DH wants to give money without your consent and without answering your very reasonable questions, he's the one who's damaging the marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a small person you are. I only wish I could do something like that for my in-laws or mother but they are lucky enough to be self sufficient.

If you can’t afford to do it then maybe help her increase the monthly payments. Otherwise give her the money and let her have some peace.

My husband wouldn’t have to discuss giving money to family and neither would I, especially under the $5,000 mark.

Op here. Well you clearly are more fortunate financially than I am to have that kind of budget flexibility. That amount of money is still significant for us.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s going to exacerbate her problems which are caused by her behavior. I don’t think you guys are going to get the house. I doubt she will end up being a reliable childcare provider. I’ve seen this play out a few times.. she needs to get a job, even if it’s a part time one. She will be happier and so will you all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would maybe just view it as $4k to not get divorced and keep the peace. Your DH will likely hold it against you forever if not.

I would be concerned though this is just the start. She really needs to have a job for a few years to save some money. She likely only has a few more years of being able to truly work. If you give her the 4k you may be enabling her to not work.

I was just coming to say the same thing.

By your own words your MIL is not a terrible person.

She's not begging you for it. And acting entitled
Her crime is not doing what you think she should do.

The 4k is not going to ruin you.

Refusing and getting into nasty fights with your husband will cost you.

So what price are you willing to pay?

See, I think it's better for OP's marriage in the long run to set some boundaries now. I'm not saying give MIL nothing, but if it's $4K now it'll be $6K next year. If it's either give my mom all our savings or I divorce you, then the marriage isn't worth having.

If OP's DH really will not back down on giving MIL money, then the DH is overdue for some very serious talk about how to downshift their own lifestyle to give more to MIL out of monthly income rather than savings. This family does not have enough saved and cannot afford to bail MIL out of her own bad decisions while also maintaining their current standard of living. DH needs to decide what he's willing to cut. I wouldn't even give her the $4K, I'd ask DH what he's willing to give up and give her exactly that.

And spare me the "she raised him" guilt. Lots of people work while raising children. And one reason for that is to save money and be financially secure. MIL has squandered an inheritance and gotten fired twice, and is unwilling to work *at all* except in a MLM that will likely take advantage of her in the end. There's way more bad choices here than a poor little SAHM who didn't understand the consequence of her SAHM-ing.

I don't think anyone has said it should be a free for all. But a one time 4k gift without a bunch of strings attached is the better move for op

[Anonymous]

Will the $8k close the HELOC? That would be ok with me with the understanding between me and my spouse that this is a one time bail out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH recently discovered that my MIL has been making interest only payments for 2 years on a HELOC she took out to modestly update her kitchen about 4 years ago (which was badly needed as it was an original kitchen from the 50s). The reason she hasn’t been making full payments is because 2 years ago she was fired from her job (which has happened to her multiple times) so she decided she was done working and was going to retire and take Social Security. She insisted she had enough money to retire if she lived frugally, but I am fairly sure she does not—hence the interest only payments on her loan—which she also took out with a variable interest rate (groan).

She’s a kind person who sacrificed a lot financially to raise my DH but has made a slew of poor financial decisions. I am fairly sure that her only assets for her retirement are less than 50K in cash and around 150K in her 401K which she has not touched yet. She has no long-term care insurance, life insurance, stocks, pension, or anything like that and has avoided going to a financial planner for years despite much encouragement to do so. Her main asset is her house which she will (thankfully) pay off on a few years. She’s 69 and can work
But has said she doesn’t want to work full
Time ever again. So her plan is to do home sales of an MLM she does now (which hardly brings in any money) and eventually for my SIL to pay her for child care (she’s due with a baby very soon).

Last night DH broached the idea with me
Of him and his sister each giving her $4K and then having her (his mom) contribute a large chunk of her cash to clear the debt, and I did not like this idea and we got into a pretty big fight.

I feel like it is irresponsible of her to have retired as an able bodied person who can work and just does not want to because of the stress without ensuring she has enough assets to do so. And I am pissed she has hidden this debt and I don’t want him to give away our hard earned money when we are trying very hard to save money for our own home updates and repairs (we own an older home which we bought knowing it needed some real work) and to pay for child care for our kids, save for their college, etc.

My DH tried to justify this by saying he will eventually inherit her house so it will eventually be his and his sister’s, and I disagreed saying no one knows the future, he or I could die tomorrow, his mom could live to be 100 and need to sell the house to pay for a nursing home or other medical care, etc. He thinks I am being a selfish jerk because my family does not look out for each other financially (I have been financially independent since I got my first job) and making this about me.

I feel like if he wants to do this, then there needs to be some transparency on her end,
Eg she allow my husband to take a full look at her finances and assets so there are no more surprises and he can help her plan, which he thinks is unreasonable. So, AITA?

That's kinda messed up.
You don't seem to have an issue with the amount of money.
You seem to take issue with your mil not doing things as you think you should.
I think you should give her the money but that has to be it. No more. DH should agree to that.
No strings attached because you know she's not really going to change and it will just be a bigger source of contention for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a small person you are. I only wish I could do something like that for my in-laws or mother but they are lucky enough to be self sufficient.

If you can’t afford to do it then maybe help her increase the monthly payments. Otherwise give her the money and let her have some peace.

My husband wouldn’t have to discuss giving money to family and neither would I, especially under the $5,000 mark.

Np here but op you seem very combative. Your pissed at your DH for not thinking like you. You're getting into huge fights. You're pissed because your mil hasn't done what you think she should. . Snarky replies. You just seem unpleasant so you're probably an ahole

Op here. Well you clearly are more fortunate financially than I am to have that kind of budget flexibility. That amount of money is still significant for us.

[Anonymous]

I can’t believe how many people think OP should just handover the money when it’s 10% of their savings. I think it’s admirable DH and SIL want to help. You are not the a*hole imo. I would say DH needs to come up with a plan for how to repay your savings while continuing to save at the same rate you have been. Can you cut expenses? Is there a side hustle he can do to earn more? With the numbers you have quoted it’s pretty unlikely your DH will be inheriting the house as she will likely need to sell it to pay her expenses down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

I have a serious question for you PP. what kind of hurt incurred on you by her prevents you from helping her?
I mean, she isn’t the most hard working person but she also doesn’t sound like a horrible abuser.
Why is it that kids refuse to help parents?

Well first, yes I still am a little resentful that many of the choices she made while I was growing up made for a pretty miserable childhood (trying to let that go).

More importantly I know if I were to gift her money once it would just open to door to her asking for/expecting increasing amounts down the road (regularly saw this growing up with her requests for money from her parents/siblings).

If it were truly a question of her being homeless/a medical emergency, etc of course I would step in but not simply to improve her lifestyle because she chose to retire at 62 despite having no savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

I have a serious question for you PP. what kind of hurt incurred on you by her prevents you from helping her?
I mean, she isn’t the most hard working person but she also doesn’t sound like a horrible abuser.
Why is it that kids refuse to help parents?

Well first, yes I still am a little resentful that many of the choices she made while I was growing up made for a pretty miserable childhood (trying to let that go).

More importantly I know if I were to gift her money once it would just open to door to her asking for/expecting increasing amounts down the road (regularly saw this growing up with her requests for money from her parents/siblings).

If it were truly a question of her being homeless/a medical emergency, etc of course I would step in but not simply to improve her lifestyle because she chose to retire at 62 despite having no savings.

Thank you for replying. I will most likely need some help from my child when he grows up so I am trying to learn how to not make him resentful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

I have a serious question for you PP. what kind of hurt incurred on you by her prevents you from helping her?
I mean, she isn’t the most hard working person but she also doesn’t sound like a horrible abuser.
Why is it that kids refuse to help parents?

Well first, yes I still am a little resentful that many of the choices she made while I was growing up made for a pretty miserable childhood (trying to let that go).

More importantly I know if I were to gift her money once it would just open to door to her asking for/expecting increasing amounts down the road (regularly saw this growing up with her requests for money from her parents/siblings).

If it were truly a question of her being homeless/a medical emergency, etc of course I would step in but not simply to improve her lifestyle because she chose to retire at 62 despite having no savings.

Thank you for replying. I will most likely need some help from my child when he grows up so I am trying to learn how to not make him resentful.

What are you doing today to mitigate having to ask for your child to help in the future?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Op, I get it. My mom regularly touts the narrative that as a single mom she chose to make sacrifices for me in lieu of saving for her retirement when in fact she made a series of terrible choices, including marrying a drug addict and working only sporadically in “passion jobs”, which would have resulted in her being broke regardless (despite the fact that she herself grew up upper middle class with far more advantages than I ever had) and it’s only thanks to assistance from her extended family that I was able to go to college, etc.

A few years ago she ultimately decided at 62 that she was just done working (a white collar desk job), despite having 0 retirement savings and has since been living off of social security alone, though constantly hinting that she could use assistance.

My husband and I make a decent enough HHI of 270k, but still worry about saving enough for retirement/college for our two kids. There’s absolutely no way that I’m going to draw from that to subsidize her “retirement”, despite the fact that I know her friends/outsiders are judging me for not helping out more as she is clearly struggling financially and we relatively appear to be comfortable.

I have a serious question for you PP. what kind of hurt incurred on you by her prevents you from helping her?
I mean, she isn’t the most hard working person but she also doesn’t sound like a horrible abuser.
Why is it that kids refuse to help parents?

Well first, yes I still am a little resentful that many of the choices she made while I was growing up made for a pretty miserable childhood (trying to let that go).

More importantly I know if I were to gift her money once it would just open to door to her asking for/expecting increasing amounts down the road (regularly saw this growing up with her requests for money from her parents/siblings).

If it were truly a question of her being homeless/a medical emergency, etc of course I would step in but not simply to improve her lifestyle because she chose to retire at 62 despite having no savings.

Thank you for replying. I will most likely need some help from my child when he grows up so I am trying to learn how to not make him resentful.

What are you doing today to mitigate having to ask for your child to help in the future?

I work, I save, I will be getting SS (either earned or through my ex), I have relatively affordable housing secured.
It’s just that I am too far behind in saving (arrived in this country too late) so I might have to rely on him for some things. I might go back to my home country to live on the cheap but that’s not guaranteed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

You're telling me that a 69 year old woman could "easily" get a job making $100k = but never earned enough to save more than $150k for retirement?

You're not really making sense, OP - and you are being really stingy and petty.

She finally ascended to the C suite in the nonprofit sector in her area when she was fired. She knows the industry and her area well and is well networked. She has not tried at all to get a job since. She flat out has told us she is tired of workplace drama, managing people and kissing the CEO’s butt, etc. She also won’t get a side hustle
That could also supplement her income, so instead chooses to putter around her house all day. She doesn’t have enough money left to travel, go on vacation, or really do anything but sit in the house and pay basic expenses. And that irritates me as a working adult who started working at age 15 and will be working for probably 30 more years.

You are being way too judgemental of this. You have not been in her shoes and you are not her.

[Anonymous]

If you want to be terrible, lie and say you don’t have the money and ask to borrow money from his mom. Say you need $400 for a bill.