How to handle a kid who does not want a Bar Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Read up on the benefits of religion - there are plenty.

I agree about the benefits of religion, but a person who doesn't want to do the work to become a bar mitzvah, i.e. an adult in the eyes of the Jewish community, should not be forced to do it. Part of the point is that the boy is "of age" to make this decision.

My son was a confirmation class dropout because he didn't want to be an adult in the eyes of a church he had no intention of participating in. At the time, he told us he was an atheist and the process had no meaning for him. We believed him and let him drop out. Fast-forward a decade, his views are the same.

Confirmation and a bar mitzvah are in no way the same thing. Confirmation is about faith. Bar mitzvah is becoming a Jewish adult. You can be an atheist member of the Jewish community, even some rabbis are. You’re forcing your Christian perspective on a Jewish issue.

This. As an aside, I have often wondered how so many women on DCUM with nominally Jewish husbands can seriously consider themselves authorities on the traditional Jewish worldview. If they're depending on those husbands, they're not getting an authentic picture.

DP but I was raised in a Jewish and Catholic family and had a Confirmation while others had Bar mitzvahs. I think I have pretty good insight into both religions, having been both, and I agree that Confirmation is in many ways like a Bar mitzvah - at least in the sense of the ritual marking the acceptance adult religious obligations. I actually think the person who claimed Confirmation is about faith and a Bar Mitzvah is about becoming a Jewish adult, doesn't actually understand how one or both of those things function in people's lives, and how kids actually come to them.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And to give all the anecdotes - I have a Jewish mom and a Christian dad and was raised UU because they thought religion was important even though they were both raised in different religions.

My friends had bar/bat mitzvahs and confirmations and I was jealous that I had no one celebrating me

So sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he mean when he says he doesn't consider himself Jewish?

+1. Many here are arguing that being Jewish isn’t so much about faith as it is about a chain of history and remembrance.

Right. What is the harm in not pushing this right now? He was born Jewish, so he's still Jewish without the Bar Mitzvah, isn't he? Even if he doesn't consider himself to be.

[Anonymous]

If he doesn’t consider himself Jewish he probably doesn’t want to be tasked with holding down the chain or whatever. It’s ridiculous to guilt a 13 year old kid like that. What about his beliefs and his needs? He is a person too - an alive person. I don’t get this forced religion at all. “That’s what Jews do”? Seriously ??

[Anonymous]

You respect his decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Perhaps. It is also the reason the Jewish people still exists. We are the people who remember. It is our most basic operating principle since Yavne.

Your ideas about guilt are rooted in Protestant individualism. We think in a fundamentally different way.

A pp brought up A Letter in the Scroll. Here's a famous quote from it: “I am a Jew because, knowing the story of my people, I hear their call to write the next chapter. I did not come from nowhere; I have a past, and if any past commands anyone this past commands me. I am a Jew because only if I remain a Jew will the story of a hundred generations live on in me. I continue their journey because, having come this far, I may not let it and them fail. I cannot be the missing letter in the scroll.”

This is lovely but how is this child obligated to have a bar mitzvah now? Why could he not choose to do this at a later time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

It was OP who had to endure having religion forced on her, not the grands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

It was OP who had to endure having religion forced on her, not the grands.

* pp not OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's sad to me that kids are forced to "do" religion even when they don't want to. Why can't they choose? It's not a matter of health and safety, or developing their brains. I don't let my kids skip brushing their teeth or go out of school, but if they wanted to stop going to religious services or not participate in ceremonies, I would let them.

They're "doing" ancestral and community connection to maintain a chain thousands of years old. It isn't "religion" in the Protestant sense.

This.

You all standing by this and insisting on it is the reason generational trauma and guilt exists.

Perhaps. It is also the reason the Jewish people still exists. We are the people who remember. It is our most basic operating principle since Yavne.

Your ideas about guilt are rooted in Protestant individualism. We think in a fundamentally different way.

A pp brought up A Letter in the Scroll. Here's a famous quote from it: “I am a Jew because, knowing the story of my people, I hear their call to write the next chapter. I did not come from nowhere; I have a past, and if any past commands anyone this past commands me. I am a Jew because only if I remain a Jew will the story of a hundred generations live on in me. I continue their journey because, having come this far, I may not let it and them fail. I cannot be the missing letter in the scroll.”

This is lovely but how is this child obligated to have a bar mitzvah now? Why could he not choose to do this at a later time?

Good question, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

Love this megalomania, so typical. No care at all for the "poor" Catholic paternal grandparents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom pressured me to get confirmed. I stood up at the church not believing any of it. While I wasn’t traumatized it was performative, which seemed odd to me. Wouldn’t the church want me to be faithful?

My sister got confirmed in church. I didn't believe any of it and didn't get confirmed. When we got married we had a civil ceremony.

Likewise, if a kid going through a bar mitzvah has to confirm their commitment to certain principles, if they agree to go through this against their beliefs, that seems to be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom pressured me to get confirmed. I stood up at the church not believing any of it. While I wasn’t traumatized it was performative, which seemed odd to me. Wouldn’t the church want me to be faithful?

My sister got confirmed in church. I didn't believe any of it and didn't get confirmed. When we got married we had a civil ceremony.

Likewise, if a kid going through a bar mitzvah has to confirm their commitment to certain principles, if they agree to go through this against their beliefs, that seems to be a problem.

Except they don’t. There’s no affirmation. It’s like giving a speech in debate class. You do it but no one cares if you believe it or not. It’s the act that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

Love this megalomania, so typical. No care at all for the "poor" Catholic paternal grandparents.

Your AS AF respond is alas, also so typical. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had an identical experience. I did not force my son to have one. As a kid I was forced to go through all the Catholic sacraments, because my Jewish mother and Catholic father decided without my input that I should be Catholic. I hated and resented having a religion I didn't choose forced on me - even moreso because at one point I had to do Confirmation, around bar mitzvah age, and everyone kept emphasizing how it marked my choice to be Catholic. Except I was forced and it didn't. It left me with a bad taste about forced religious rituals, so when my son didn't want a bar mitzvah I didn't force him.

I don't think forcing a kid to have one will make Jewish - it might even do the opposite. And you don't have to have one in order to be Jewish. So that's why I didn't force it.

That’s horrifying. Your poor maternal grandparents.

Love this megalomania, so typical. No care at all for the "poor" Catholic paternal grandparents.

Your AS AF respond is alas, also so typical. Gross.

What's AS about pointing out your ugly biases against the Catholic grandparents? You sound like the bigot yourself.

What's gross is shrieking "antisemite" every time somebody disagrees with you on an issue like which grandparents get to pass down their religion.