How to handle a kid who does not want a Bar Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

Maybe some Jews don't feel a responsibility to not break the chain or don't care about their religion of origin just as some people of other religions don't care about theirs.

Yeah. I think the best place for the PP to ha e their discussion is in the mirror. For a Jew she doesn’t know a lot about Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say up front that I am not Jewish, but I empathize with OP. The boy seems to not actively dislike the religion, it’s more that he is uncomfortable being the center of attention during the service and party? We have a tradition in my (Hindu) faith which is kind of similar in that it marks the start of adulthood, though it does not require study. I would feel unhappy if either of my children refused to do it for a non-legit reason. If I am being honest, I would probably bribe them somehow so as not to miss the opportunity. I wouldn’t be able to let it go and be like “whatever, they’re American now”.

Yes, 13yos should be allowed to have personal choice, but if those beliefs are not strong (like saying I believe this religion is immoral) they should be willing to suck it up and put a smile on their face for one day to make their parents happy. Just like their parents sacrifice loads of time and energy to make *them* happy. Just like in the future, they’ll have to do things to make their own children and partner happy. 13 is old enough to understand that.

Agreed. Teaching kid to do hard things even when they don’t want to do them is preparing for life as an adult. Teaching them to be part of a community, teaches them communal responsibility.

Teaches kids to compromise their own desires for the desires of their parents.

Forces kids to look at something presented as a gateway to adulthood as like other things their parents force them to do because they are children who don't really know what's best for themselves.

Presumes kids will thank parents later for forcing them to do something that they do not want to do.

I’m very sorry that you have so much trauma and contempt for your parents/childhood. You have a lot to work through. If parents let their 12-13 olds “quit” all of their activities and communities and identities, kids would devolve into a 24 diet of YouTube videos, tween social media side eye, and sundry. It’s ok to encourage your kids to stick with things, to do hard things, to go outside themselves. They may not thank you later. But they may understand you later.

The issue is not quitting all their activities, communities and identities at age 12-13; the issue is not being forced to participate in a religious ceremony that is meaningless to the child.

Also, there's no need to be sorry for me - I don't have trauma or contempt for my parents/childhood. I didn't think much about religious rites of passage then and just went along with things. My parents weren't very religious either, but they went along too.

Uh-huh. No one who is centering themselves in a minority religion discussion as much as you are is without some serious mommy and daddy issues.

I disagree, but if so, your reasoning would apply to you, too. There must be serious parental issues if you engage with people like me about your religion.

Possibly, my parents are shrinks - so they taught me how to spot hyper vigilant narcissists like you at a young age. Happy healing.

DP. Child of two shrinks. That explains it.

Shrinks know that you can't diagnose people on line. Maybe if they saw this conversation they would tell their kid that they come across as foolish.

Hah. I showed them this thread and they said our clinical diagnosis is what a narcissistic a$$hole.

There is no "narcissistic a$$hole" diagnosis in the DSM. You are making it up or they are terrible shrinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

Maybe some Jews don't feel a responsibility to not break the chain or don't care about their religion of origin just as some people of other religions don't care about theirs.

Yeah. I think the best place for the PP to ha e their discussion is in the mirror. For a Jew she doesn’t know a lot about Jews.

Maybe pp is one of those people who follows religious rules rigidly and thinks everyone else should too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

Maybe some Jews don't feel a responsibility to not break the chain or don't care about their religion of origin just as some people of other religions don't care about theirs.

Yeah. I think the best place for the PP to ha e their discussion is in the mirror. For a Jew she doesn’t know a lot about Jews.

Maybe pp is one of those people who follows religious rules rigidly and thinks everyone else should too

Following rules can be easier than thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

There are closed Facebook groups for Jewish discussion where one can post anonymously (if that's what you want). Also Jewish Reddit groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

Openly? On an anonymous forum? I think all religions get bashed by others at one time or another -- and atheists especially seem to be fair game because they openly do not believe in God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

Openly? On an anonymous forum? I think all religions get bashed by others at one time or another -- and atheists especially seem to be fair game because they openly do not believe in God.

Openly in that the person/people doing it identify themselves as Jewish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

Openly? On an anonymous forum? I think all religions get bashed by others at one time or another -- and atheists especially seem to be fair game because they openly do not believe in God.

This atheist martyr is ridiculous. There's no "especially" about how you're treated, grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

Openly? On an anonymous forum? I think all religions get bashed by others at one time or another -- and atheists especially seem to be fair game because they openly do not believe in God.

Openly in that the person/people doing it identify themselves as Jewish.

You're missing the point. Jews bash Christians all the time on DCUM, so it's a little rich to complain you're misunderstood on this thread. This is DCUM and this is what happens. If you don't like outside opinions, find an insular forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

What do you want, a separate forum with registration required? Are there no FB pages or other forums only available to Jewish people?

Unless that happens this is an open, Anonymous forum that OP chose to post in. People will respond.

I'd look for a separate, Jewish forum with required registration.

But also, Jews here bash Christians and Christianity openly, while identifying themselves as Jews.

At least we do it openly? None of the veiled antisemitism we get from everyone else.

Openly? On an anonymous forum? I think all religions get bashed by others at one time or another -- and atheists especially seem to be fair game because they openly do not believe in God.

Openly in that the person/people doing it identify themselves as Jewish.

You're missing the point. Jews bash Christians all the time on DCUM, so it's a little rich to complain you're misunderstood on this thread. This is DCUM and this is what happens. If you don't like outside opinions, find an insular forum.

In what ways do Jews bash Christians on this forum? Have I not been paying enough attention?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster, but I suggest as I did earlier here that we Jewe stop engaging with non-Jews about Jewish concerns. It is clear that they just don't understand what is at stake or appreciate our thousands of years-long project and the responsibility each of us has to not break the chain.

So where should these questions be discussed? I think we need a more appropriate forum, where Protestants and their secular intellectual descendants won't butt in with their completely contradictory values? It would also be good to have a place where Jew-hating dog whistles aren't tolerated. That hasn't been an issue on this thread, but it has been on others and Jeff just doesn't hear the whistles.

Yes there should absolutely be a no non- Jews allowed forum. You would have to prove your Jewish identity by blood sample, some genealogy paperwork, and go before a panel of judges to make sure that your Jewish values are correct.
There could be clubs and entire communities built on the same premise. Genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read this whole thread but “having a bar mitzvah” has no actual significance in Jewish law— it’s the equivalent of a quinceanara, sweet sixteen or HS grad party— a marking of a milestone reached but the milestone occurs regardless of whether it’s marked or not.

And I truly can’t see how forcing a kid to prepare for a bar mitzvah is going to make them identify more with Judaism. If they aren’t intrinsically motivated to identify as Jewish and participate in the rituals, creating unpleasant dynamics around Jewish ritual certainly isn’t going to help.

The bolded is not true. I was SO proud to be counted as part of a minyan when we needed to go to the temple for a mourner's kiddush at age 14.