Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

It doesn’t sound like this behavior is from “bad parenting.” Though I don’t even think neurotypical 5-6 yr olds would behave to this extreme regardless of their parenting. They just don’t. Clearly the child has something going on. Hopefully it gets better with age/medication. But until then you shouldn’t feel bad about shielding your kids from hers. Yes continue the friendship with mom, but no need to subject your kids to violent out of control behavior. Not many adults want to hang out and be friends with other adults that are violent and out of control, so why Would you force your child to for the sake of mom’s feelings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you invite them to do stuff outside the house. Meet at a playground, go to a pumpkins patch etc?

He hits and makes other kids cry and your answer is “meet them outside?” Yeah, no. The correct answer is, as they’ve been doing, “don’t meet them at all.”

Dp. He probably won't hit outside. Being in a less stressful environment for the and being able to burn off energy freely can go a long way for an ADHD kid. Maybe he has other issues, we don't know. But the people here with experience with children with ADHD are suggesting outside for good reason.

But, you do you with your "correct answer." 🤷‍♀️

Thanks for your permission. I will.

-adult with ADHD who’s pretty sick of internet strangers assuming every kid with behavior regulation issues and no professional diagnosis has ADHD

Regulation issues are the root of ADHD so it's not a terrible assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you invite them to do stuff outside the house. Meet at a playground, go to a pumpkins patch etc?

He hits and makes other kids cry and your answer is “meet them outside?” Yeah, no. The correct answer is, as they’ve been doing, “don’t meet them at all.”

Dp. He probably won't hit outside. Being in a less stressful environment for the and being able to burn off energy freely can go a long way for an ADHD kid. Maybe he has other issues, we don't know. But the people here with experience with children with ADHD are suggesting outside for good reason.

But, you do you with your "correct answer." 🤷‍♀️

I’m 1840 and some of these kids still hit inside or outside. It’s not pleasant, nor is it pleasant for me to have negative feelings about a child but you can only tolerate so much hitting and destructive behavior and negative behavior. The parents don’t always correct the behavior because I’m sure they are burnt out of having to constantly monitor, redirect and correct at home. But that doesn’t mean we have to put up with it either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

[Anonymous]

There is a place for kindness and inclusion but children also need to learn that they shouldn’t allow people to treat them poorly. It doesn’t matter if there is a reason for it. If someone hits you to hurts you, you don’t have to be friends with them. You shouldn’t be unkind but you are not required to sacrifice your happiness and well being because someone else has a problem. This is especially important for girls to learn.

[Anonymous]

We teach our children to have boundaries. We teach them that if they're treated badly - when someone is physically hurting them or makes them afraid - use boundaries.

This behavior is not acceptable and should not be tolerated.

Kindness and inclusion here can be extended to the mom, alone, without her child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We teach our children to have boundaries. We teach them that if they're treated badly - when someone is physically hurting them or makes them afraid - use boundaries.

This behavior is not acceptable and should not be tolerated.

Kindness and inclusion here can be extended to the mom, alone, without her child.

\

I'm really glad you just came out and said it. No kindness for the disabled child. And people wonder why parents with "bad" children don't confide in them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

It's not always that extreme.

People don't think twice about cutting out long-time friends who are only slightly more annoying than the average 10 yo. No one's kids are perfect but because mine is slightly less perfect than yours then my kid gets the axe.

It's just disappointing when it's the parents who are judgmental and hurtful. The kids give immediate feedback to each other (both ways) but they don't go out of their way to coordinate with other kids to exclude someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

Let me assure you that it is NOT just those with "major behavioral issues" that get shunned.

[Anonymous]

She knows. She probably feels like it’s her fault and all the guilt and embarrassment and loneliness that goes with it. The kid knows and likely feels sadness and shame for things he can’t control (yet).

Hopefully the parents are getting help for both the kid and themselves. I can think of at least 4 kids like this that I have known since they were 3 or 4. Now they are 8-9 and while two of them are still a bit louder than the other kids and need to be watched a little closer at Cub Scouts than the other kids because impulsivity + fire / sticks / pocket knives / etc. can be dangerous - but in all 4 cases the kids have made a ton of progress.

Somehow my kids are the opposite of the wild boys - they are future safety patrol nerds - but I was a kid who was “too much” for a lot of people growing up and I was eventually diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. I have a soft spot for the “too much” kids and a knack for anticipating risks and planning activities and locations that mitigate the risks.

Beyond whatever help the parents are getting, I think it makes a huge difference as these kids get older for them to have a few adults in their lives who can say “I get you and I don’t think you are a bad kid.” I’m not saying they have to be included in every single play date and party - but that they also should not be excluded from everything either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She knows. She probably feels like it’s her fault and all the guilt and embarrassment and loneliness that goes with it. The kid knows and likely feels sadness and shame for things he can’t control (yet).

Hopefully the parents are getting help for both the kid and themselves. I can think of at least 4 kids like this that I have known since they were 3 or 4. Now they are 8-9 and while two of them are still a bit louder than the other kids and need to be watched a little closer at Cub Scouts than the other kids because impulsivity + fire / sticks / pocket knives / etc. can be dangerous - but in all 4 cases the kids have made a ton of progress.

Somehow my kids are the opposite of the wild boys - they are future safety patrol nerds - but I was a kid who was “too much” for a lot of people growing up and I was eventually diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. I have a soft spot for the “too much” kids and a knack for anticipating risks and planning activities and locations that mitigate the risks.

Beyond whatever help the parents are getting, I think it makes a huge difference as these kids get older for them to have a few adults in their lives who can say “I get you and I don’t think you are a bad kid.” I’m not saying they have to be included in every single play date and party - but that they also should not be excluded from everything either.

Yup. Then when you lose an entire friend group it gets even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

Let me assure you that it is NOT just those with "major behavioral issues" that get shunned.

Honestly at 6 I think it’s also a lot about who gets caught. There are lots of boys who don’t hit at any 6. But it’s fewer than you think. I was really surprised by my experience volunteering at recess in my kids first grade year. There is a boy who I know people think is a “good kid” who grabbed a classmates arm and made him “hit himself “ over and over. He had clearly picked the spot in line where he thought he would not be seen and was really startled to be caught and played it off as a big joke. Meanwhile other kids aren’t as savvy and will do the same things in front of a grown up or to kids they know won’t go along with “it was a joke”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of the kids of the judgmental parents in this thread are going to end up with severe anxiety issues in high schools.

But they are all good parents! Not like those other parents with "bad kids".

Yeah, in ten years the nasty judgmental parents in this thread are going to be writing posts about how their kids don’t function because of severe anxiety or how their kids have gone to college and won’t talk with them any more. They are going to be moaning about how their kids are intolerant of them, how superficial their relationship is, and they’ll have no insight into how they taught their kids to act that way.

My social circle is mostly made up of parents of kids in their 20s and late teens, for reference. This isn’t theoretical.