Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

Let me assure you that it is NOT just those with "major behavioral issues" that get shunned.

+100

Been there done that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you have answered.othwr questions but have specifically avoided the one about what the parent response is. When the kid was pulling out lighting or hitting people, what do the parents do? Did they leave? Did they apologize? Did they hiver the whole time and still this happened?

I feel like you are avoiding answering those questions and it makes me think the parent is super involved and struggling and trying all the strategies and you and your social group is still isolating them after ten years of friendship. Which probably sucks for the other family who is already suffering.

They are middle of road. They don’t hover. They do correct bad behavior and investigate situation if child makes others cry. Their older child is wonderful and well behaved. As I mentioned in the OP, I suspect child has some sort of behavioral disorder. I don’t know if parents have had him tested. Mom doesn’t discuss any concerns or parenting hardships. She isn’t a complainer.

The problem here is that this child’s behavior is very abnormal and either the mom is in denial or she is not confiding in you, which is surprising since you have known each other for so long.

So you should just tell her OP that due to the child’s behavior of hitting and making your kids cry, that they don’t want to play with him. Let’s just have mom get together now and then.

Have you read this thread? It s not surprising at all that the other mother has not confided in OP. The judgment and lack of compassion you see here is what a parent with a kid with SN encounters every single day. She should confide in OP who silently diagnoses her child and then excludes her family? You have no idea what you are talking about.

OP, you won’t be the first or the last person to “ice out” a friend who needs support. Just do it and get it over with so the other mom can grieve another loss and move on.

+1

Don't look for support with friends who only have NT kids. Definitely don't confide in them. They will use it to exclude your kid and therefore you.

All of this. I don't have any real friends anymore who have only NT kids. It just doesn't work. NT parents are too judgmental and uninformed. My life is already a swirling sh!tshow so I need people I can count on and I can trust. Those who haven't been there are not those people.

It has nothing to do with being judgmental and uninformed. Neurotypical people don’t want to hang out with someone that is hitting, wild, uncontrolled...that goes for kids or adults. It is uncomfortable at best. Are you personal friends with any SN adults with major behavioral issues?

Let me assure you that it is NOT just those with "major behavioral issues" that get shunned.

Honestly at 6 I think it’s also a lot about who gets caught. There are lots of boys who don’t hit at any 6. But it’s fewer than you think. I was really surprised by my experience volunteering at recess in my kids first grade year. There is a boy who I know people think is a “good kid” who grabbed a classmates arm and made him “hit himself “ over and over. He had clearly picked the spot in line where he thought he would not be seen and was really startled to be caught and played it off as a big joke. Meanwhile other kids aren’t as savvy and will do the same things in front of a grown up or to kids they know won’t go along with “it was a joke”.

OP said that her DC is a girl. She has no idea what boys are like, NT or otherwise.

I agree with you, fwiw. Growing up with lots of siblings is valuable for more than one reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a situation where it was SN AND bad parenting. No amount of bad parenting can lead to behaviors I saw, but I also witnessed bad parenting as well.
I tried to be understanding for too long, but finally came around after the mom had to jump in the pool to prevent the boy from drowning his sister.

Poor mom. You should have iced her out much earlier so that she wouldn't have to deal with her children AND your judgment.

She deserves the judgment, for Christ’s sake. I have a DC with non-behavioral SNs and had the joyous experience of dealing with a spineless, useless mother to a child with SPD, who couldn’t accept that her DD physically attacked other kids, urinated in other kids’ beds deliberately during play dates and so forth. This kind of bad situation, where a kid has issues out of their control AND a parent refusing to act in anything like a timely way to control the environment or show any obligation so that unaware kids don’t get hurt, does happen. And I’m well past pretending that those parents and their feelings matter more than the kids who don’t attack others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of the kids of the judgmental parents in this thread are going to end up with severe anxiety issues in high schools.

But they are all good parents! Not like those other parents with "bad kids".

“My kid who hits is the good kid! The one who doesn’t is a bad kid with no future besides scoring Xanax!”

You all wish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a situation where it was SN AND bad parenting. No amount of bad parenting can lead to behaviors I saw, but I also witnessed bad parenting as well.
I tried to be understanding for too long, but finally came around after the mom had to jump in the pool to prevent the boy from drowning his sister.

Poor mom. You should have iced her out much earlier so that she wouldn't have to deal with her children AND your judgment.

She deserves the judgment, for Christ’s sake. I have a DC with non-behavioral SNs and had the joyous experience of dealing with a spineless, useless mother to a child with SPD, who couldn’t accept that her DD physically attacked other kids, urinated in other kids’ beds deliberately during play dates and so forth. This kind of bad situation, where a kid has issues out of their control AND a parent refusing to act in anything like a timely way to control the environment or show any obligation so that unaware kids don’t get hurt, does happen. And I’m well past pretending that those parents and their feelings matter more than the kids who don’t attack others.

Op didn't say the parent refused to act in a timely way. Judge your friend. No need to invent facts to judge others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have friends with a destructive and nasty (he hits, kicks people and pets) son. We had to completely stop inviting them to our house and now only get together anywhere but our house. He is hyperactive add and is slightly better now (7 yo) but he’s never welcome back at my house. He traumatized my cats by pulling their tails and hitting them. The last time we saw them at the park he ran up to me and hit me.

You should have hit him back. Maybe this would teach him not to hit people.

[Anonymous]

The simple answer here is that you can try an outside playdate where you can keep eyes on the kids and see how it goes. If he hits your child or makes it otherwise really unpleasant for your child, then you don't do anymore activities where the kids are along for quite some time. You could see the mom/parents in a kid-free set up. No need to be dramatic, but also absolutely do not sacrifice your child or your home to bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The simple answer here is that you can try an outside playdate where you can keep eyes on the kids and see how it goes. If he hits your child or makes it otherwise really unpleasant for your child, then you don't do anymore activities where the kids are along for quite some time. You could see the mom/parents in a kid-free set up. No need to be dramatic, but also absolutely do not sacrifice your child or your home to bad behavior.

How many times do you let a kid hit your kid before you call it quits? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The simple answer here is that you can try an outside playdate where you can keep eyes on the kids and see how it goes. If he hits your child or makes it otherwise really unpleasant for your child, then you don't do anymore activities where the kids are along for quite some time. You could see the mom/parents in a kid-free set up. No need to be dramatic, but also absolutely do not sacrifice your child or your home to bad behavior.

How many times do you let a kid hit your kid before you call it quits? Come on.

DCUM has an extreme zero tolerance policy for kids. But in the real world, kids at 5, 6, 7 are still really young and sometimes are the hitter and sometimes are the hittee. And kids are all far from perfect (thank goodness).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a situation where it was SN AND bad parenting. No amount of bad parenting can lead to behaviors I saw, but I also witnessed bad parenting as well.
I tried to be understanding for too long, but finally came around after the mom had to jump in the pool to prevent the boy from drowning his sister.

Poor mom. You should have iced her out much earlier so that she wouldn't have to deal with her children AND your judgment.

She deserves the judgment, for Christ’s sake. I have a DC with non-behavioral SNs and had the joyous experience of dealing with a spineless, useless mother to a child with SPD, who couldn’t accept that her DD physically attacked other kids, urinated in other kids’ beds deliberately during play dates and so forth. This kind of bad situation, where a kid has issues out of their control AND a parent refusing to act in anything like a timely way to control the environment or show any obligation so that unaware kids don’t get hurt, does happen. And I’m well past pretending that those parents and their feelings matter more than the kids who don’t attack others.

Op didn't say the parent refused to act in a timely way. Judge your friend. No need to invent facts to judge others.

Nothing was invented. Maybe you should quote the women who carp about how unfair it is to “judge.”

OP did in fact say the mother doesn’t “hover,” and doesn’t share issues - which both is good, and bad, if the behavior is at the fixture-destroying and consistently hitting others level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of the kids of the judgmental parents in this thread are going to end up with severe anxiety issues in high schools.

But they are all good parents! Not like those other parents with "bad kids".

“My kid who hits is the good kid! The one who doesn’t is a bad kid with no future besides scoring Xanax!”

You all wish.

DP. Look, I realize you don't want to deal with the predictable outcome of being as nasty and judgmental of a parent as you clearly are, but I'm at the other end of this parenting journey and trust me, kids of people who are nasty and judgmental like you seem to be do not turn out well. They just don't.

[Anonymous]

This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of the kids of the judgmental parents in this thread are going to end up with severe anxiety issues in high schools.

But they are all good parents! Not like those other parents with "bad kids".

“My kid who hits is the good kid! The one who doesn’t is a bad kid with no future besides scoring Xanax!”

You all wish.

DP. Look, I realize you don't want to deal with the predictable outcome of being as nasty and judgmental of a parent as you clearly are, but I'm at the other end of this parenting journey and trust me, kids of people who are nasty and judgmental like you seem to be do not turn out well. They just don't.

And you can stuff it. I have a child with SNs, I’ve dealt with well-intentioned and not so well-intentioned inquiries. But you and your ilk are a total joke. It’s actually ok to make those dreaded “judgments” to keep a child physically safe. This isn’t tantamount to being cruel, or turning children against a peer with serious behavioral issues. Trust me, it just isn’t - and I didn’t personally write anything like that. The idea that anyone here could be keeping their fingers crossed that kids with parents who don’t let them be prey for out of control peers are all likely going to have anxiety disorders in college is a pipe dream. They just don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

I know it's hard to hear, but tornado kids, kids with ADHD, bad kids, are not ostracized. They're interesting, enlivening, and fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not about SN children, but rather "bad" behavior more generally.

This is just a basic human social thing. No one likes to be around chaos. People like calm, predictable adults and children who do not make them feel like they are walking on eggshells, might get hit, have something in their home broken, etc. This is universal.

Many of us have calm homes with not a ton of screaming, breaking things, meltdowns, etc. It's true.

The fact that you feel comfortable/are resigned to dealing with with your child or family's chaos is understandable--you are a key participant and may not know how to diffuse situations, you may have low expectations for behavior, or you may actually feel stressed out but end up shutting down because you don't want to deal with conflict, etc.

None of that means that anyone else has to respect the way you run your family or the way your kid behaves. Unfortunately, again, people universally do not want to be around chaos. When you bring your tornado over and have no way of tempering what happens, leaving when it gets bad, apologizing, etc., people will stop hanging out with you.

My kids are teenagers who do not have anxiety and are thriving, for those of you who think anyone with any rules and a preference for calm is abusive and creates ticking time bombs. Quite the opposite--they know how to act and feel comfortable anywhere because they have been shown boundaries and manners from Day 1. It really does make their lives easier.

If your kid is a disaster and misbehaves in social situations, work on it--not while you are at the friend's--before, and agree with the kid on what behavior will end the visit. And then leave if that behavior occurs. You do not need to yell, cause a scene, etc. Believe it or not, other parents are doing this stuff. It actually helps them feel happier. You are in charge and you can do this!

I know it's hard to hear, but tornado kids, kids with ADHD, bad kids, are not ostracized. They're interesting, enlivening, and fun.

I think the OP was talking about a kid who came to her house and ripped fixtures off the walls and hit other kids. How interesting!