Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

“Violent kids”? “Force friendships”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine”?

Troll.

The boy has been violent. The girl wants to NOT see him. Other kids and families have already excluded. All of this is in Op’s posts.

Who is trolling, now?

“Violent”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting my child”?

He’s 5 or 6. GMAFB.

Troll.

Are you suggesting that OP lay hands on this child? Physically restraining someone else's child is a huge no-no. You're also assuming that you're right there and fully able to anticipate that the child is going to hit before the fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And no one is even saying they have to be in the same room.

So your answer is that the other kids should hide in other rooms, in their own house, to avoid a child that has hurt them in the past? What kind of play date is that?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

“Violent kids”? “Force friendships”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine”?

Troll.

The boy has been violent. The girl wants to NOT see him. Other kids and families have already excluded. All of this is in Op’s posts.

Who is trolling, now?

“Violent”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting my child”?

He’s 5 or 6. GMAFB.

Troll.

Are you suggesting that OP lay hands on this child? Physically restraining someone else's child is a huge no-no. You're also assuming that you're right there and fully able to anticipate that the child is going to hit before the fact.

This was my take as well. Sounds like the expectation is that the other parent tackle and subdue this much younger smaller child before they hit again. That solution.... isn't going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is even saying they have to be in the same room.

So your answer is that the other kids should hide in other rooms, in their own house, to avoid a child that has hurt them in the past? What kind of play date is that?

+1 The PP is just a giant troll or a complete moron. There is no other answer. A playdate where the boy is kept alone in a room or where the other children stay in their rooms is no playdate at all. There is no point. It's honestly much more unwelcoming than telling the mom that her child is not welcome in your house than it is to invite him for a playdate where he plays alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And no one is even saying they have to be in the same room.

So your answer is that the other kids should hide in other rooms, in their own house, to avoid a child that has hurt them in the past? What kind of play date is that?

No. That isn’t the only option.

Trolls are getting boring with these bad faith comments.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I sympathize with you, and with the other family.

But honestly, I sometimes feel we make our kids hang out with other kids that they don't like, just so we don't feel bad.

If this boy is unable to control himself and routinely hits other children, then no, I'm not going to force my child to spend time with him....just so I can feel better about myself

I think literally no one is saying the OP should make her child hang out w/ the kid who hits them.

+1

No one said she should force her kid to hang out with him.

You’re being willfully obtuse. No one has to use the literal words “she should force her kid to hang out with him.” They keep repeating that “kindness and inclusion are reserved for the mom, not the kid.” By “inclusion” for the kid, they mean continued play dates. You know this. Now stop being disingenuous.
Well, nobody said that verbatim.

But people did suggest that its cruel to ice out the kid, or to invite the Mom to hang but indicate that the kid cannot come.

That's essentially saying the same thing

This. This is what was actually posted and with all the histrionics “just dump the mom it’s kinder!” of course this is what was meant.

None of that was someone saying she should force her kid to hang out with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is interesting because it contains parents who embody two different types of bad parenting. You have your “snowplow” parents who remove all challenges and discomfort from their kids, thus ending up with emotionally fragile adults who cannot function in the world. You also have the “boys will be boys” parents who don’t teach their sons to keep their hands to themselves, which also obviously ends badly with adults. It’s an intersection of bad parenting.

Those are not the only two options here.

No, they aren’t. But they are the two different bad parents we see in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

You don’t understand the difference between your parent’s sibling and just another kid in a class full of other kids. I feel bad for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

“Violent kids”? “Force friendships”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine”?

Troll.

The boy has been violent. The girl wants to NOT see him. Other kids and families have already excluded. All of this is in Op’s posts.

Who is trolling, now?

“Violent”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting my child”?

He’s 5 or 6. GMAFB.

Troll.

Are you suggesting that OP lay hands on this child? Physically restraining someone else's child is a huge no-no. You're also assuming that you're right there and fully able to anticipate that the child is going to hit before the fact.

Always with the extreme scenarios. Lame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Likely the play tme is running a bit too long for the kid. How long are your get-togethers? Does his acting out start the minute he arrives, or does it begin surfacing after 45 to an hour, or longer? If it takes awhile, then he's reached his limit and maxxed out on sensory overload.

One of my kids was like that, and I had to watch closely for when she was ramping up toward meltdown, and we would go home before that point. We might be there for one hour and then sorry, we have to get going. Some children are just more sentitive to stimuli -- maybe they're a tiny bit on the spectrum, etc. -- and they melt down after too much exposure time to social chaos, loudness, etc.

Since this is a friend's child, you might gently hint that maybe her son is getting tired and needs to go home?

Better yet, limit these get-togethers to OUTSIDE the house, at a local park with a nice playground, where he cannot do damage to anyone's home. That's a no-brainer that should have already happened here. Put on a coat, meet at the playground.

If this mom is showing up, the gathering is going to be outside.

I would encourage you to find ways not to drop this mom, who is probably rather isolated already due to her son's behavior.

Not to pick on you, but this is an example of a post that puts OP's DD in a situation that she doesnt want to be in, to make either OP or the other mom, or the other kid feel better.

Unless you're suggesting that OP meet at a playground but not bring her DD?

+ 1.

NP. Question for both of you: do you believe your child should never encounter situations she doesn’t want to be in? It is sentiments like this that lead to the massive anxiety problems in young adults that other PPs have referred to. I think a lot of parents genuinely believe their kids should never encounter a “bad” kid, or a challenging interaction, and they become wildly unprepared for adulthood.

I get the sense a lot of PPs who are telling OP to cut off the relationship haven’t seen the outcomes in teens these days. They are so fragile.

Do you know what leads to bigger problems in young adults? It's teaching girls that it's perfectly normal for boys to hit them, the hitting must be rug swept, and they need to continue being around the person who is hitting them.

OP's DD handled this perfectly. She was in a situation she didn't like and then expressed a boundary she'd like to have. The worst thing OP could do would be to ignore DD's stated boundary and force her to play with someone who is hitting her, just so OP doesn't have to rock the boat.

In the OP, there was no mention of the DD expressing any discomfort or stating boundaries or asking for the boy to go away and not come back. OP posted again several times on the thread but I didn't see any posts saying that.

You're putting words in the DD's mouth.

Yes, I’m sure she said “I love being hit and made to cry! Please, Mom, can we keep doing this again?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is interesting because it contains parents who embody two different types of bad parenting. You have your “snowplow” parents who remove all challenges and discomfort from their kids, thus ending up with emotionally fragile adults who cannot function in the world. You also have the “boys will be boys” parents who don’t teach their sons to keep their hands to themselves, which also obviously ends badly with adults. It’s an intersection of bad parenting.

Those are not the only two options here.

No, they aren’t. But they are the two different bad parents we see in this thread.

Neither describes me.

[Anonymous]

Even special ed teachers with all of their training can't prevent a child from hitting peers or destroying the entire classroom. It's standard operating procedure to evacuate the room and just let the child rage. No one is allowed to lay hands on the child or physically prevent any actions of the child.

If a special ed teacher cannot definitively keep kids in the classroom safe from being hit by a violent classmate, why do you expect OP to magically be able to protect her DD from a child who has repeatedly been violent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

“Violent kids”? “Force friendships”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine”?

Troll.

The boy has been violent. The girl wants to NOT see him. Other kids and families have already excluded. All of this is in Op’s posts.

Who is trolling, now?

“Violent”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting my child”?

He’s 5 or 6. GMAFB.

Troll.

Are you suggesting that OP lay hands on this child? Physically restraining someone else's child is a huge no-no. You're also assuming that you're right there and fully able to anticipate that the child is going to hit before the fact.

Always with the extreme scenarios. Lame.

Always with the non responsive replies that add nothing whatsoever to the thread. Moron.