Friend with bad child being iced out of friend group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the whole thread. But all I want to say is, the moral and ethical values that we claim to espouse do not always apply when things are easy. In fact they are intended to apply when things are hard. “It takes a village to raise a child.” “Visit the sick and imprisoned.” “I have not come to call the righteous, but the sinners.” Do unto others. Every major faith and ethical code calls for helping those who struggle.

That doesn’t mean that anyone has to put their children or their sconces at risk. But it does mean that you ought to make some effort to support a family in a tough situation.

+1

But I do not think the people who think OP should sever ties would agree, especially the ones who got their posts deleted because of how awful they were about kids with disabilities.

Wow. Those posts must have been pretty bad.

m

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Seems like the trolls are still here. Just a little more subtle.

No, I don’t think they are trolls. They aren’t posting just for effect, like a troll. They actually feel this way and believe what they are saying. Which is worse than being a run-of-the-mill troll.

I’m not convinced they are parents if they don’t understand how play dates work for early elementary kids.

Yes, they are parents. “Those” parents.

[Anonymous]

So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

I’m not the PP who you are replying to but you really can’t envision a world where you let the parent know that your child is feeling nervous about hitting and you would like to work together to plan a short outing that everyone can feel comfortable with? And then you talk to your DD about how hitting is never ok and we are giving a second chance because this kid is 6 (I promise you she has seen hitting at school) and what would make her feel comfortable? She can stay close to you while you go on an outing to a festival or something. Because 6 year olds are still learning and many of them are struggling with something.

You don’t have to do that. You can decide it’s not worth it to you. It’s a free country; you can ice her out for any reason you want. But if you want to give a try you certainly could.

No. If my kid expresses that she doesn't want to be around a kid who is hitting her (and apparently is hitting tons of other kids, since many families in this friend group are icing the kid out), I'm absolutely not going to look for a solution that involves ignoring my DD's wishes and forcing her to be around a violent child. In your "solution", the kids are either glued so closely to the parents so as to render the outing meaningless, or the DD could easily get hit again. Your solution is also incredibly condescending toward the mom of the boy, since you're assuming that she doesn't know that her kid's behavior is a problem, needs people to coddle her by saying that their kids are "nervous" about socializing, and then needs you to come up with a solution for how she can manage her child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

I’m not the PP who you are replying to but you really can’t envision a world where you let the parent know that your child is feeling nervous about hitting and you would like to work together to plan a short outing that everyone can feel comfortable with? And then you talk to your DD about how hitting is never ok and we are giving a second chance because this kid is 6 (I promise you she has seen hitting at school) and what would make her feel comfortable? She can stay close to you while you go on an outing to a festival or something. Because 6 year olds are still learning and many of them are struggling with something.

You don’t have to do that. You can decide it’s not worth it to you. It’s a free country; you can ice her out for any reason you want. But if you want to give a try you certainly could.

No. If my kid expresses that she doesn't want to be around a kid who is hitting her (and apparently is hitting tons of other kids, since many families in this friend group are icing the kid out), I'm absolutely not going to look for a solution that involves ignoring my DD's wishes and forcing her to be around a violent child. In your "solution", the kids are either glued so closely to the parents so as to render the outing meaningless, or the DD could easily get hit again. Your solution is also incredibly condescending toward the mom of the boy, since you're assuming that she doesn't know that her kid's behavior is a problem, needs people to coddle her by saying that their kids are "nervous" about socializing, and then needs you to come up with a solution for how she can manage her child.

Thank you.

There may be trolls here, but they are the loserrific mothers who think it’s awesome for OP’s kindergartener to be forced around a kid who has hit her, made her cry, and done enough of the same to other kids where they won’t play with the friend’s son at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

And also this. What a crazy thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

Troll. Nobody said that.

[Anonymous]

This thread is interesting because it contains parents who embody two different types of bad parenting. You have your “snowplow” parents who remove all challenges and discomfort from their kids, thus ending up with emotionally fragile adults who cannot function in the world. You also have the “boys will be boys” parents who don’t teach their sons to keep their hands to themselves, which also obviously ends badly with adults. It’s an intersection of bad parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

Troll. Nobody said that.

I suspect you're the troll. If not, tell us what are you doing on your end to guarantee there will be no more violence? We know your kid doesn't have to suffer the consequence of no more play dates, which would be a natural consequence, so it's a mystery as to what kind of parenting is taking place to guarantee a better outcome the next play date, should there be one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

Yup. You’re not a parent if you can’t think of any options.

How convenient. You provided absolutely no specific examples of how OP can force the DD to play with this boy without risking being hit. Again, if you're such an amazing parent, please enlighten us as to how you'd control the boy's behavior so no one gets hit.

How old are your kids? You haven’t figured this out yet?

Mine are 14 and 12. I totally have figured this out. I don't force my kids to spend time with violent kids. I also respect my kids' boundaries. I see zero reason to try to force friendships between my children and kids who are hitting them. Unlike a few people here, I also understand that I can't control other people's children, and there is literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine if they're forced to socialize.

Also, you still haven't given examples of exactly how you can control the situation such that the DD is 100% safe from the violent kid she wants to avoid. Someone else tried to give an example, but it was horribly naive and more than a bit idiotic.

“Violent kids”? “Force friendships”? “Literally no way to prevent a violent child from hitting mine”?

Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is interesting because it contains parents who embody two different types of bad parenting. You have your “snowplow” parents who remove all challenges and discomfort from their kids, thus ending up with emotionally fragile adults who cannot function in the world. You also have the “boys will be boys” parents who don’t teach their sons to keep their hands to themselves, which also obviously ends badly with adults. It’s an intersection of bad parenting.

Those are not the only two options here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

Troll. Nobody said that.

I suspect you're the troll. If not, tell us what are you doing on your end to guarantee there will be no more violence? We know your kid doesn't have to suffer the consequence of no more play dates, which would be a natural consequence, so it's a mystery as to what kind of parenting is taking place to guarantee a better outcome the next play date, should there be one.

You aren’t discussing in good faith. GTFO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

I’m not the PP who you are replying to but you really can’t envision a world where you let the parent know that your child is feeling nervous about hitting and you would like to work together to plan a short outing that everyone can feel comfortable with? And then you talk to your DD about how hitting is never ok and we are giving a second chance because this kid is 6 (I promise you she has seen hitting at school) and what would make her feel comfortable? She can stay close to you while you go on an outing to a festival or something. Because 6 year olds are still learning and many of them are struggling with something.

You don’t have to do that. You can decide it’s not worth it to you. It’s a free country; you can ice her out for any reason you want. But if you want to give a try you certainly could.

No. If my kid expresses that she doesn't want to be around a kid who is hitting her (and apparently is hitting tons of other kids, since many families in this friend group are icing the kid out), I'm absolutely not going to look for a solution that involves ignoring my DD's wishes and forcing her to be around a violent child. In your "solution", the kids are either glued so closely to the parents so as to render the outing meaningless, or the DD could easily get hit again. Your solution is also incredibly condescending toward the mom of the boy, since you're assuming that she doesn't know that her kid's behavior is a problem, needs people to coddle her by saying that their kids are "nervous" about socializing, and then needs you to come up with a solution for how she can manage her child.

Thank you.

There may be trolls here, but they are the loserrific mothers who think it’s awesome for OP’s kindergartener to be forced around a kid who has hit her, made her cry, and done enough of the same to other kids where they won’t play with the friend’s son at all.

Thanks. I'm honestly aghast at the moms who are ignoring gender in this entire situation. If OP had a boy, I might feel a bit differently about trying to give a second chance. Normalizing boy-on-girl violence and telling the girl that she needs to continue exposing herself to it is just fundamentally wrong, especially when the violent boy is older and probably bigger. If OP's DD had to continue being around the boy, she'd learn pretty quickly that the best way to avoid violence is to be especially meek around him. She'd also feel like on some level, it's her fault if she gets hit, and that the boy's actions are her responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, some parents should teach their kids how to be around violent and unpredictable kids because life is tough? Meanwhile the parents of those kids don't have to teach them that their actions have consequences?

Troll. Nobody said that.

I suspect you're the troll. If not, tell us what are you doing on your end to guarantee there will be no more violence? We know your kid doesn't have to suffer the consequence of no more play dates, which would be a natural consequence, so it's a mystery as to what kind of parenting is taking place to guarantee a better outcome the next play date, should there be one.

You aren’t discussing in good faith. GTFO.

No. Answer the questions or move along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do not teach your girls that they need to make themselves smaller and put their needs second to other people's problems.

As an adult you wouldn't hang out with people that hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable. Why would you ask that of kids? Why are we asking them to do things we ourselves wouldn't do?

I actually really disagree with this. Growing up I had an aunt with severe intellectual disabilities. She sometimes did and said things that I thought were weird and made me uncomfortable. Nothing abusive, just not normal adult behavior, because obviously she had a severe disability. Instead of caving to my little kid whining that I didn't want to go visit her, invite her to our house for a meal, bring her along to an outdoor concert, whatever, my parents modeled inclusivity and made sure that my aunt was always loved and supported and included her in many aspects of our life. I really appreciate the example they set and even as a slightly older child it definitely helped me be more empathetic and actively seek to be inclusive.

Was your aunt physically violent with you? If so, your parents suck for failing to protect you. If not, what point are you trying to make, and how on earth do you think your experience is even vaguely relevant here? No one is going to learn inclusivity and empathy from being someone else's punching bag.

Literally nobody is saying OP should let her kid be a punching bag.

No, but people are saying that OP's DD needs to learn empathy and inclusivity, and that it's wrong for OP to ice out the friend's boy, despite the DD's express wish not to be around this boy.

If the parents have thus far been unable to stop their kid from hitting other kids, what exactly do you think will change the next time OP forces her DD to be around this boy?

There are many, many options in between punching bag and icing them out.

Stop throwing out extremes as strawmen.

What are these many, many options? Please do tell how OP can force her DD to be around this kid, but not have her DD at risk for getting hit.

I’m not the PP who you are replying to but you really can’t envision a world where you let the parent know that your child is feeling nervous about hitting and you would like to work together to plan a short outing that everyone can feel comfortable with? And then you talk to your DD about how hitting is never ok and we are giving a second chance because this kid is 6 (I promise you she has seen hitting at school) and what would make her feel comfortable? She can stay close to you while you go on an outing to a festival or something. Because 6 year olds are still learning and many of them are struggling with something.

You don’t have to do that. You can decide it’s not worth it to you. It’s a free country; you can ice her out for any reason you want. But if you want to give a try you certainly could.

No. If my kid expresses that she doesn't want to be around a kid who is hitting her (and apparently is hitting tons of other kids, since many families in this friend group are icing the kid out), I'm absolutely not going to look for a solution that involves ignoring my DD's wishes and forcing her to be around a violent child. In your "solution", the kids are either glued so closely to the parents so as to render the outing meaningless, or the DD could easily get hit again. Your solution is also incredibly condescending toward the mom of the boy, since you're assuming that she doesn't know that her kid's behavior is a problem, needs people to coddle her by saying that their kids are "nervous" about socializing, and then needs you to come up with a solution for how she can manage her child.

Thank you.

There may be trolls here, but they are the loserrific mothers who think it’s awesome for OP’s kindergartener to be forced around a kid who has hit her, made her cry, and done enough of the same to other kids where they won’t play with the friend’s son at all.

Thanks. I'm honestly aghast at the moms who are ignoring gender in this entire situation. If OP had a boy, I might feel a bit differently about trying to give a second chance. Normalizing boy-on-girl violence and telling the girl that she needs to continue exposing herself to it is just fundamentally wrong, especially when the violent boy is older and probably bigger. If OP's DD had to continue being around the boy, she'd learn pretty quickly that the best way to avoid violence is to be especially meek around him. She'd also feel like on some level, it's her fault if she gets hit, and that the boy's actions are her responsibility.

I agree and think the women posting things suggesting this are completely disgusting. The theoretical “heartbreak”’ of OP’s mom friend and the maybe diagnosis of who knows what of an out of control little boy trump a little girl saying she doesn’t want to be around him. It’s already her job to help create situations where he slowly learns to behave. She is part of his village! She is his little teacher! OP and DD both kind of owe the other family because they’ve been luckier with DD’s temperament, so really they need to meet up but maybe outside? DD will understand. Disgusting.